Good News.. I swear!!

Murfy

Well-Known Member
sorry for the confusion guys-

in case you didn't know, i am a a full time millionaire, cowboy, astronaut, attorney. rofl :)

for more clarification, the guy with the cage rocks, (we all knew he did!). the guy without his card or rec fails. his only saving grace will be to get the doc to say he recommended the ganj after the MMMA 08 initiation, AND before the date of the violation. which we all know he won't, due to the fact he already said it was BEFORE the initiation of the 08 Act, and AFTER the violation. we have no reason to doubt his testimony.
 

cephalopod

Well-Known Member
sorry for the confusion guys-

in case you didn't know, i am a a full time millionaire, cowboy, astronaut, attorney. rofl :) Awesome

Besides its not like an attorney is incapable of giving bad advice or being misinformed/uneducated themselves, it's YOUR responsibilty. Besides IMO attorneys are mostly paid for good lying.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
1/2 correct. the law didnt change, that is correct, what has changed now is the MSC has told the rest of the state to quit ILLEGALLY reading this Peoples Initiative. The MSC told the rest of the state, specifically the CoA and Bull Schuitte, to quit breaking the law, to get the citizens to be breaking the law.

This act was NEVER setup to help the bill schuette term of "Profiteers". Funny you use So Many of BS' terms. we Legal patients call those guys Dealers, not Profiteers.
A dealer in my mind doesn't hide behind the med law. He buys and sells weed with no pretenses of being legal. A profiteer poses as a legal med patient/caregiver using the law as a shield.

By the way, I like the way you speak for "we legal patients" how the heck do you know what terms everyone in the state uses?
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
stoners-

are like a family.

[video=youtube;sxFwPTwLFR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxFwPTwLFR4[/video]
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
bob you foolishly think that someone people are too ignorant (perhaps its just a You thing) to understand and realize,
to even TRY to use a Section 8, they ARE GOING TO JAIL, no passing go, no collecting 200.00, no visitation. you go to jail, you hire a lawyer, you see a judge at the minimum, and in most cases will likely end up in front of a Jury.

But now with the MSC Ruling, we ATLEAST know we Do get to say Medical Cannabis Patient to a Jury on a sec 8.
SO long as you have a Dr rec, have medical Need, and a Reasonable Amount on hand, AND, you are not in breach of any part of sec 7. if all of these I's are dotted and T's are crossed, then the Judge can dismiss, Or let a Jury Decide. If there is ANY issue of LAW, not Fact But LAW, the judge makes the decision to allow 8 or not, If its a matter of Fact then the Jury hears it. otherwise, your a criminal and have to prove innocence as normal.

Who else but a cop would think in your terms bob?

lastly, No Dr Rec, No medical Need, No reasonable amount, or any part of 7 is violated, guess what bob, no right to use a Sec 8.


You Really better educate yourself bob... you are way behind the learning curve....


now Do I also need to school you on how Sec 4 works?

actually, I had better, or you ll have this totally fucking confused too.

Have a registration card (authorized and active), under 2.5, under 12 plants/Patient if a CG, locked and enclosed (no roofs, no separate rooms, no one grow per address ect.. Locked and Enclosed), NO ARREST.... anything else as a registered card holder, you get to tell it to the Jury ,IE Sec 8.


Think with the brain in your head on your shoulders bob, not the head you set on.
Timmahh..this debate started because you said these laws MUST call for dismissal. Again, you are the one changing your wording, while calling me the one who doesn't understand.

You finally came around to understanding the relevance of the term "reasonable". Yes, the 1/10 of 1 percent of patients needing Simpson oil, will get benefit from that term. 99.9% of patients will not.

Go section 8 because you are over on a section 4 limitation or "locked and secure", and almost every patient will fail in the defense.

Our law gave us more plants per person than most other States. People using all their plants for common reasons, pain of the normal variety being the big one, will simply lose under the definition of "reasonable" amount. A judge or jury, isn't gonna buy that you need the full amount of plant material you are allowed to treat minor pain issues. Won't happen.

Yes, the simpson oil patient is an exception..but they are few in number compared to the majority of med patients. You know as well as I do, that the majority of card holders have recommendations based on less than compelling medical records.

Again we are looking for the same things. The difference is that I side with a cautious approach, and you have an entitled approach.

I just don't want the guys with cards for "pain from hangnail" med reasons, thinking these rulings protect them more than they do.

It will still go down that, once arrested, most people are fuc@@d. There will be fewer arrests, as the SC sent a clear message to leave people in compliance alone, but if they do find cause for arrest..your probably gonna lose on the "reasonable" interpretation.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
on a side note, as the SC UPheld the Act as a People's Initiative. We the People should be able to bring charges against those state agencies, and agents of the State, that used falsified cards to entrap people. They used criminal means to get people to self incriminate.......
I believe that is Entrapment.


Can you Hear Us Now?
That I agree with..it IS entrapment..
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that it's still beneficial for a patient to get themselves registered, otherwise the patient still risks an arrest and formal charges if confronted by a douche bag overzealous LEO. The $200 it takes to see a doc & get registered seems like the best way to go still. You'd spend much more than that between posting bond, getting your car outta impound, and paying a lawyer to show up for court all because some fuck head cop wants to give me a hard time.
exactly. Becomming a registered patient offers way more protections, ie NO ARREST, so long as you play by the rules set for. The Rules are Simple, and Easy for Anyone to understand and thus, follow. Now, the Rest of the State government entities should have a FIRM understanding of our Intent, It's in Black and White, as Written in the Act...
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
sorry for the confusion guys-

in case you didn't know, i am a a full time millionaire, cowboy, astronaut, attorney. rofl :)

for more clarification, the guy with the cage rocks, (we all knew he did!). the guy without his card or rec fails. his only saving grace will be to get the doc to say he recommended the ganj after the MMMA 08 initiation, AND before the date of the violation. which we all know he won't, due to the fact he already said it was BEFORE the initiation of the 08 Act, and AFTER the violation. we have no reason to doubt his testimony.
I agree 100% Murph, that is how i see the King and Kolanek case happening as well.

Though I would of thought the SC would of taken the issue of "Innocent, until Proven Guilty" into account on that point. Afterall, he was not convicted, just arrested as a SUSPECTED Criminal. Seem any Defendant, after arrest, would Still need to have a State Certified Doctor, Testify Under Oath, under penalties for pergury, that the said defendant would get beneficial help from Cannabis. IMPO, I would say they missed the mark on this one point in their ruling. People are Innocent until proven guilty, and if the said defendant cant get a dr to swear under oath they arnt skamming as far as the medical need is, then it should be allowable testimony.
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Timmahh..this debate started because you said these laws MUST call for dismissal. Again, you are the one changing your wording, while calling me the one who doesn't understand.

You finally came around to understanding the relevance of the term "reasonable". Yes, the 1/10 of 1 percent of patients needing Simpson oil, will get benefit from that term. 99.9% of patients will not.

Go section 8 because you are over on a section 4 limitation or "locked and secure", and almost every patient will fail in the defense.

Our law gave us more plants per person than most other States. People using all their plants for common reasons, pain of the normal variety being the big one, will simply lose under the definition of "reasonable" amount. A judge or jury, isn't gonna buy that you need the full amount of plant material you are allowed to treat minor pain issues. Won't happen.

Yes, the simpson oil patient is an exception..but they are few in number compared to the majority of med patients. You know as well as I do, that the majority of card holders have recommendations based on less than compelling medical records.

Again we are looking for the same things. The difference is that I side with a cautious approach, and you have an entitled approach.

I just don't want the guys with cards for "pain from hangnail" med reasons, thinking these rulings protect them more than they do.

It will still go down that, once arrested, most people are fuc@@d. There will be fewer arrests, as the SC sent a clear message to leave people in compliance alone, but if they do find cause for arrest..your probably gonna lose on the "reasonable" interpretation.

Finially came around to what Reasonable means, OMG bob, you dolt.
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
umm bob. sec 8 is one defense allowable to ANYONE with a Dr Rec. sec, 4 defense is allowable to anyone ON the Registry. Being on the registry, you have a dr rec, so you can utilize either a sec 8, should the sec 4 not stop the arrest and case against you.

as a pt only, you can only hope your amount is seen as Reasonable by the Judge, if not, then its up to the jury....

you just dont seem to understand, to use 8, 4 doesnt apply AT ALL.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
I agree 100% Murph, that is how i see the King and Kolanek case happening as well.

Though I would of thought the SC would of taken the issue of "Innocent, until Proven Guilty" into account on that point. Afterall, he was not convicted, just arrested as a SUSPECTED Criminal. Seem any Defendant, after arrest, would Still need to have a State Certified Doctor, Testify Under Oath, under penalties for pergury, that the said defendant would get beneficial help from Cannabis. IMPO, I would say they missed the mark on this one point in their ruling. People are Innocent until proven guilty, and if the said defendant cant get a dr to swear under oath they arnt skamming as far as the medical need is, then it should be allowable testimony.
King has a chance. kolanek had no Dr rec at the time of arrest.
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
Timmahh..this debate started because you said these laws MUST call for dismissal. Again, you are the one changing your wording, while calling me the one who doesn't understand. This debate started because I was correct in my interpertation of the 08 MMM Act, and your desire for me to be wrong. Which ofcourse I have not been. Hurts I know bob, but yet again, I let you prove yourself wrong, and you did a splendid job of it...

You finally came around to understanding the relevance of the term "reasonable". Yes, the 1/10 of 1 percent of patients needing Simpson oil, will get benefit from that term. 99.9% of patients will not. As I have stated time and time again bob, reasonable will very by every case... and if their is a question of that trier of FACT, it is for a JURY To decide, not a Judge. That is what I have said, the MSC upheld, and you still ignore.

Go section 8 because you are over on a section 4 limitation or "locked and secure", and almost every patient will fail in the defense.
Section 8 is a Safety Net. it catches the possible quirks in the system and allows them to present proper evidence and removes the costly Trials in Court of Law, when there is really no need for it. So if your a Registered Pt, and you can not use a sec 4, you still have the oppertunity to use 8, providing you still qualify under the 3 needs, and havnt violated any of 7. and under a sec 8, that is what you need to prove to have case dismissed.

Our law gave us more plants per person than most other States. I think its workable... and Happy to see it. People using all their plants for common reasons, pain of the normal variety being the big one, will simply lose under the definition of "reasonable" amount. A judge or jury, isn't gonna buy that you need the full amount of plant material you are allowed to treat minor pain issues. Won't happen.

Reasonable Amount is a Trier of FACT and NOT for a Judge to decide, the MSC stated Triers of Facts, are ONLY for a Jury to decide on.

Yes, the simpson oil patient is an exception..but they are few in number compared to the majority of med patients. You know as well as I do, that the majority of card holders have recommendations based on less than compelling medical records. Lets not be so short sigted bob. THEY ALL Have a Drs recommendation, and are On the Registry. END OF STORY. That sir, IS THE LAW as We the People Enacted it. See you Love to state 1/2 and partial truths facts to support your ill gotten thoughts. just like Bill Schuette and the Prosecution Crew does.

Again we are looking for the same things. The difference is that I side with a cautious approach, and you have an entitled approach.
Be honest, you side with caution as you say, because your terrified your government will screw you every chance it gets. And your right It will. But I on the other hand Stand up for My Rights, and am a Law abiding Citizen, and Follow the Law. I am also not trusting of my government, but unlike you, I wont hide with my tail between my legs, hoping and praying I am the one they show mercy on. lol

Oh I also stand up for Your rights, so you dont have to be such a skerdycat about it bob.


I just don't want the guys with cards for "pain from hangnail" med reasons, thinking these rulings protect them more than they do.
Who give 3 fucks what you want of others. That is not your RIGHT to judge them. fact Is we all have to be smart enough to know the law, and what is expected of us. Just because you choose to allow your government to tell you want it wants you to hear, and you then gobble it up with delight, does not mean that is how anyone else must exist. Sorry, you ll never sell anyone that boatload of manure unless they are as much of a sheeple as you appear to be.

It will still go down that, once arrested, most people are fuc@@d. There will be fewer arrests, as the SC sent a clear message to leave people in compliance alone, but if they do find cause for arrest..your probably gonna lose on the "reasonable" interpretation.
well I will agree with this part to a point. If someone is a Registered Pt, and they Do get arrested, it will be certainly an interesting case. But I think you have grossly underestimated the scope of this ruling. But that doesnt surprise me at this point. you are astoundingly short sighted in your thoughts...

not trying to attack you directly bob, but again, you are just Wrong and way off base. You advocate to be full of fear... all that will do is spread fear, and I wont allow you to do that.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
chattin with you guys-


is so much fun. how ya'll been. gettin caught up on all the spring work? imma have 2000 pounds of tomatoes this year!
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
King has a chance. kolanek had no Dr rec at the time of arrest.

ya i know, ive said that for a while now, King should of never been arrested, Kolanek, pushed the envelope.

though as ive stated, Innocent until proven guilty i think was over looked.
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
busy busy busy busy, did i mention busy. lol and now Im happy happy happy, and ready to open a Compassion Club in my Town, as well as a Delivery Service, once we get the clear ruling from the MSC on Pt to Pt sales being expressly authorized in the Compassionate Apothecary case, im opening a Compassion Club here. Id love to do it right next to the court house/sheriff's dept, VERY SAFE area!, but that part of town is PRICY for rent. lol (How do you like me know bob) lmao.

I love debating, especially when I have been correct, and get validation from the Highest Court in the State. Ya ima say it again. I TOLD YOU SO. lol

gotta have a little gloat time, i took alot of shit from alot of fools, because I stood firm on the Law we passed, and the issue that is very Clear and Concise. It is obvious the only confusion was how LEO and BS could subjugate the Act.

Its good to be right. lol
but in all honesty and seriousness. This is a huge ruling with Major implications. Just the SC stating they (by they, that includes BS in the AG Office, his staff, the legislature, the sentate the majority of the state government, ALOT of LEO ect.. and im going to include bob on folks like him n my personal ring. lol) have been incorrectly interpreting the Act as a legislative law, or a judiciary introduced law, is the biggest part of this. They (MSC) has said in no uncertain terms. this is a Peoples Initiative, and MUST be Held accordingly in points of Law.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
umm bob. sec 8 is one defense allowable to ANYONE with a Dr Rec. sec, 4 defense is allowable to anyone ON the Registry. Being on the registry, you have a dr rec, so you can utilize either a sec 8, should the sec 4 not stop the arrest and case against you.

as a pt only, you can only hope your amount is seen as Reasonable by the Judge, if not, then its up to the jury....

you just dont seem to understand, to use 8, 4 doesnt apply AT ALL.
I totally understand it. Thing is, that if you are arrested, it's probable that you failed an aspect of 4..that's what got you arrested.
If you failed 4, the chances of prevailing under 8 are minimal at best.

The way you express it, leads people to believe that they have more protection than they actually do.

The other factor to watch is if the cops even arrest someone with a Dr rec and no card if that person has a minimal self use grow going. Or, if the prosecutor will press the charges against them, knowing that in court they can meet the burden of proof.

Why waste time and money prosecuting someone with no card, but a valid Dr. Recommendation, If that person has a small grow?

Prosecutors are rated by their conviction percentage...they don't want to take losing cases to court. Remember, getting arrested by the cops doesn't mean the charges will be filed.

These rulings do a lot to help the true patient, and even the small CG. But offer no protection to anyone clearly over growing for profit.

Hell, I don't worry about being arrested..i worry about being convicted. Big difference. Being arrested is certainly a pain in the ass, but is a minor inconvenience compared to being convicted.

Card or no card, I have a DR rec that is valid. I also have a well documented condition. I doubt that charges would be filed against me, even if I was arrested. I'm confidant in that only because I could show that my grow is "reasonable" by even a pretty tight standard. Never 2.5 dry (maybe for a day after harvest) Usually only 9 plants or so..all in different stages..no multiple plant harvest grows. flowering is well spaced out. And my room is locked and secure as they get.

Just not a winner for a prosecutor.

Although you are correct in your view..you are also overly cocky about it. Being cocky and pushing the limit of the law is what gets people in trouble.

My take is to be careful, and stay unseen. keep your grow as small as you can for your needs. If you do those things, you will be much safer.

I just fear that lurkers reading these threads don't take your opinion as "we are all set' grow away....cause that will get people in trouble.
 

Murfy

Well-Known Member
being cocky-

and pushing the limit, is what MAKES USA.

otherwise, subjects.................................off with your heads. bwhahahhahaaaaaaa.lol
 

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
The other factor to watch is if the cops even arrest someone with a Dr rec and no card if that person has a minimal self use grow going. Or, if the prosecutor will press the charges against them, knowing that in court they can meet the burden of proof.

Why waste time and money prosecuting someone with no card, but a valid Dr. Recommendation, If that person has a small grow?
That is exactly how the Act reads, and what I and many others like OZZ and Tomcat and others have held. Why waste the time or more importantly, the Money. that was a major point in Passing the act after the medical aspect.


  • Prosecutors are rated by their conviction percentage...they don't want to take losing cases to court. Remember, getting arrested by the cops doesn't mean the charges will be filed.​


I think we can both agree this is the wrong criteria for PAs. they should be held up to how Well the FAIRLY Apply the Law to EVERYONE. not how well they convict everyone. This is just building a foundation of troubles...


  • These rulings do a lot to help the true patient, and even the small CG. But offer no protection to anyone clearly over growing for profit.​


as this law was never passed for profit, i concur. but we are obviously on separate bases when it comes to helping others that have a dr rec, or reg card. You have to remember, not everyone can grow, not everyone uses only 1/8th an ounce a month, and not everyone uses an ounce a week... its meant to be a bit pliable. as more folks grow, more meds become available, the quality will go up, the cost will go down, and the Patients will all benefit through lower costs.

but being cocky and being right are different things. the cockyness comes from the knowledge and conviction the interpretations are solid and firm and on mark. Its when the Cockyness precludes the Judgement, which then introduces erroneous though processes that it is an issue.

and lets face something for sure. this would of never of been this large of an issue, had the state, specifically Bill Schuette and his underlings, not broke laws to make it so the Poeple following the laws, were percieved to be just crimnals.

So the real issue is the Perception of those that dont like this Act, not those that passed or utilize it.

and make no mistake, im not implying people should be foolish, grow 20 lbs a cycle and put a 300.00 per ounce overage sign in their front yard announcing it. lol the Law must still be followed. but it must be followed By Everyone, ESPECIALLY the LAW Enforcement and Courts. IF they dont follow the law, they can Not expect the citizens to do so.

but fact is, exercising your Civil and Legal Rights is what will KEEP this country and its Citizens free and in liberty.
 

bob harris

Well-Known Member
well I will agree with this part to a point. If someone is a Registered Pt, and they Do get arrested, it will be certainly an interesting case. But I think you have grossly underestimated the scope of this ruling. But that doesnt surprise me at this point. you are astoundingly short sighted in your thoughts...

not trying to attack you directly bob, but again, you are just Wrong and way off base. You advocate to be full of fear... all that will do is spread fear, and I wont allow you to do that.
Timmah, I gotta love you. You so love to take credit after someone else does the work. We are on the same side you know. I just think you have grossly overestimated the scope of these rulings. That's really the only place we differ. That and you effortlessly twist things to make yourself feel smart.

You said block the bills..I said get them re worded. After they were reworded..you took credit for the win. You argue sometimes just to argue. you want to be recognized as a leader.

I have no desire to be the leader..did plenty of that in my career. I just don't want people to be overly secure in these rulings...they will prove to be a double edged sword.
 
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