Gonna upgrade my lighting

Hey all, gonna upgrade my lighting and wanna stay with led, right now I'm running two ac infinity 100w Samsung full spectrum lights, I'm looking at mars hydro and a few other company's. I wanna spend around 2-300$ and keep it around 2-300 watts for my 4x2 tent, any suggestions?

HLG has a 25% off sale going.

I doubt you would see any improvement over what you have.

speedwell68 said:

I doubt you would see any improvement over what you have.

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Yeah these lights are insane and I did a lot of research before buying but I was thinking about just getting a third then, or getting the 200w that's a longer board.

At 8 Sq\/Ft and 40.3w sq/ft, you should try and use about 320w of light. And by light I mean using the very best Samsung Diodes. Anything different and all bets are off.

How did I come up with 40.3w sq/ft??

My Gavita 1700e is 645w, and Gavita says its good for a 4 x 4 area, or 16 sq/ft. 645 divided by 16 is 40.3.

While HLG makes decent lights, I think thy overrate their lights. compared to Gavitas ratings.

They say the 250w 300r will replace a 600w HPS, which I will use a Hortilux HPS bulb as an example. The 600w Hortilux is good to blast a 3 x 3 area, and HLG then rates their bulb as being good for a 2.5 x 2.5-3 x 3 area for flowering. The 2.5 x 2.5 is more like it, but still falls short by 2w, which is close enough. But in a 3 x 3 its 25% less light than a 600w Hortilux/HPS. They also state the 300R is good for a 4 x 4 for veg, which I think is BS. They may grow, and do ok, but its not optimal. While I use both 1000w Hortilux HPS, and 645w Gavita 1700e, I also start seedlings under these lights, at full power. They would get that much light if they were outside in say Hawaii, Equador, Columbia, especially at high altitude. In reality they would get closer to or MORE than 100w sq/ft in those places. The trick to using so much light, and not getting light stress, is to have airflow like its outside. Anything less, and they wont be able to use the light, and will suffer for it. I have great ventilation. I start the seedlings under either light at 24 inches, and let the plants grow to the lights.
250w HLG divided by your 8 square foot growing area is about 31w Sq/ft. 25% LESS watts than how Gavita rates their lights.
While it is hotter. A 600w Hortilux will blast a 3 x 3 area. Allegedly, if you believe manufacturers, the very best LED are about 1/3 more efficient than the very best single ended HPS. So to replace a 600w Hortilux bulb, you would need a 365w LED to replace a 600w HPS in a 3 x 3 area.

So long story shore get to 365 watts

I see alot of people spending a fortune on lighting, equipment etc but their plants look like trash...make sure you're happy with your grows first before worrying about upgrading lights etc.

jimihendrix1 said:

At 8 Sq\/Ft and 40.3w sq/ft, you should try and use about 320w of light. And by light I mean using the very best Samsung Diodes. Anything different and all bets are off.

How did I come up with 40.3w sq/ft??

My Gavita 1700e is 645w, and Gavita says its good for a 4 x 4 area, or 16 sq/ft. 645 divided by 16 is 40.3.

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40.3watt sq/ft is overkill for the very best lights lights available today.

hlg make lights that exede 3.0 umol/j, the gavita you mention is old now at around 2.6umol/j. hlgs best are around 15 to 20% more efficient than the old gavitas.

unless you are on top of your game and really pushing things, co2 ect, 250watts is more than enough for a 2 x 4 tent.

The 300w version of this LED would be a nice light to have in a 4x2 tent. I think they cost around 300 euros

Add a third light. I'd grab one of HLGs Diablo boards which go for 100$ right now for board and heat sink.

grotbags said:

unless you are on top of your game and really pushing things, co2 ect, 250watts is more than enough for a 2 x 4 tent.

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Yep. I have 600w in a 4x4, if I go anything over 80% I get light stress.

Ive used a 1000w HID from everything from starting seedlings through flowering since they came out around 1977 in a 4 x 4 area, and have never had one problem, or any kind of light stress. ive never used CO2 either. But Ive always had really good airflow.

A Scorpion Diablo 715w has an efficiency of 2.9 going by their measurements. The Gavita 1700e is 2.6. .3 is 16% increase in efficiency. Which out of 40w is 6.4w or 34w sq/ft. 40w sq/ft is hardly overkill/ vs 34.

I also use a Gavite DE HPS which is also 2100umol like the Diablo, but I do use it in a 20 sq/ft area. 4 x 5.

The Gativa 1700e is 1700umol and is exactly the same as the Hortilux 1000w HPS. For as long as they been out a 1000w HID has been the recomended standard by the manfacturer for a 4 x 4 area, and a 600w has always been the standard for a 3 x 3. At 600w in a 3 x 3 is 66.33 sq/ft, slightly better than a 1000w Hortilux in a 4 x 4 which is 60w sq/ft. I started out using Halide in the 70s because the old HPS had no Blue in them at all. In the 90s Hortilux came out with the HPS that had some Blue in it.
And this of course is for optimum conditions. If you dont have really good fresh air exchange, they can suffer stress, but Ive never had 1 problem in 44 years useing a 1000w HID in a 4 x 4 area, as Ive always had really good air exchange.
But I stand by my assessment in optimum conditions that 40w sq/ft is optimum, as most lights fall in the 2.4-2.6 range of efficiency. And even at 2.9 efficiency its only 6w sq/ft less.
And if one goes by umol per sq/ft at 2100 umol, and 4 x 5 area thats 105 umol per sq/ft. Both the diablo, and 1000w DE Gavita have 2100umol

At 1700 umol and a 16 sq/ft area thats 106umol per sq/ft for both the Gavita 1700e, and a 1000w Hortilux HPS.

There are ways to calculate the average angle that sunlight has to go through the atmosphere, and we find that the AVERAGE clear sky sun provides around 893 Watts/m 2 (which is about 283.6 Btu/ft 2 /hr or very close to 100 Watts per square foot).
So going by this a 4 x4 area would be getting 1600w sq/m which is considerably more that 1000w in a 4 x 4 area. 60% MORE to be specific.
At the equator, the sun’s intensity gives us a Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF) of 2000 µmol/m2/sec of light, which is roughly equivalent to 10,200 foot candles or 108,000 lux per m2. In a 4 x 4 area this would be about 2525umol in a 4 x 4 area.
But like I said to have this work indoors you have to have optimum airflow, or a controlled CO2 environment.

jimihendrix1 said:

Ive used a 1000w HID from everything from starting seedlings through flowering since they came out around 1977 in a 4 x 4 area, and have never had one problem, or any kind of light stress. ive never used CO2 either. But Ive always had really good airflow.

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good for you, you are obviously quite experienced with this plant if you have been growing since the 70's however most people who are asking questions on forums are not.

jimihendrix1 said:

A Scorpion Diablo 715w has an efficiency of 2.9 going by their measurements. The Gavita 1700e is 2.6. .3 is 16% increase in efficiency. Which out of 40w is 6.4w or 34w sq/ft. 40w sq/ft is hardly overkill/ vs 34.

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the scorpion diablo is 2.97 and the new diablo x is 3.06. so between 17.5-18% more efficient, so from 40w its 7.8w or 32.2w.
so 30w sq/ft of like i said the very best lights avialable not old 2.4-2.6 lights is absolutely enough for 99% of growers. and no i wouldnt consider 40w sq/ft of old 2.4-2.6umol/j lights overkill.

the new diablo x in a 4 x 4 at [email protected] sq/ft will fuck up most average grower's shit real fast and lead to far more problems than benefits.

jimihendrix1 said:

But Ive always had really good airflow.

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jimihendrix1 said:

If you dont have really good fresh air exchange, they can suffer stress

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jimihendrix1 said:

Ive always had really good air exchange.

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jimihendrix1 said:

But like I said to have this work indoors you have to have optimum airflow

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you obviously like your air exchange lol but i cant see a benefit of any more than needed?,
in a non sealed room like a tent if the extraction/air exchange is enough to keep temps good and co2 replenished at ambient how does the extra airflow help with high light levels?.

The sun is at least 100w sq/ft. No light is as powerful as the sun. None of these lights are producing 1600w per sq/m., and even more at the equator, and high altitude like the Andes mountains. Air exchange, or a controlled CO2 environment is the key to be able to use high levels of light indoors. To use all that light you need to have as good air exchange as whats available outside. Most people that run CO2 run levels much higher than whats outside. And I dont run mine in a tent. Its hard to get as much fresh air exchange inside as what available in nature.
An like science says. The sun is at least 100w sq/ft/ , so 30w-40w sq/ft that and light can supply is way less than the sun. And also like science says. The umol of the sun on a bright day is up 2525umol sq/m. None of these lights are producing 2525umol sq/m either. And its even more at high altitude like in the Andes. Though they are close. Like I said, Ive used 1000w HID for seedlings-flowering for more than 40 years, and have never had any problems ever, at all with light stress. I can even get my 1000w HID as close as 15-20 inches inside, in the winter, and get no light stress. If one had sealed hoods, and high velocity fans pulling the heat out, you can get the lights extremely close to the plants which gives super high PAR levels. But you have to have fresh air available as if tis outside, or it will be detrimental to the plant.

jimihendrix1 said:

The sun is at least 100w s1/ft. No light is as powerful as the sun. Especially at the equator, and high altitude like the Andes mountains. Air exchange, or a cotrolled CO2 environment is the key to be able to use high levels of light indoors. To use all that light you need to have as good air exchange as whats available outside.
An like science says. The sun is at least 100w sq/ft/ , so 30w-40w sq/ft that and light can supply is way less than the sun. And also like sciencs says. The umol of the sun on a bright day is up 2525umol sq/m. None of these lights are producing 2525umol sq/m either. And its even more at high altitude like in the Andes. Though they are close.

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i dont see how the suns output is relevant to indoor growing?, are you suggesting that the only reason people indoors are not running 100w sq/ft @ 2500+ppfd is because they have not got enough air flow???.

sealed room with high co2 enrichment is the only way to use high light levels ie 1500ppm co2 and 1500ppfd.

air exchange will only keep the room at ambient co2 levels @ approx 400ppm no matter how much volume of air you pull through the room.

Thats still plenty good for outdoors, and 100w sq/ft. 2525 umol sq/m. Plus, at least for me, the main goal for indoor lighting is to reproduce the sun indoors. YMMV. And like I said. In 44 years Ive never had a problem with light stress. Never. Im getting 22oz-24oz from one plant in a 20 gallon container of Promix BX, and the only thing I do to the plant is bend it over. I veg it for 60 days from seedling until time to flip under 1000w HID, or a Gavita DE 1150w HPS, Gavita 1700e, or a SE Hortilux HPS 1000w.
The plant is a 2010 clone of Barneys Farm G13 x Haze. Before the company went to crap. Last harvest under 3 1000w Hortilux HPS and 6 plants in 20 gallons Promix BX, and 5 plants in 5 gallon, vegged 40 days, and flowered 70 days. I got 97oz.

jimihendrix1 said:

Thats still plenty good for outdoors, and 100w sq/ft. 2525 umol sq/m. Plus, at least for me, the main goal for indoor lighting is to reproduce the sun indoors. YMMV. And like I said. In 44 years Ive never had a problem with light stress. Never. Im getting 22oz-24oz from one plant in a 20 gallon container of Promix BX, and the only thing I do to the plant is bend it over. I veg it for 60 days from seedling until time to flip under 1000w HID, or a Gavita DE 1150w HPS, Gavita 1700e, or a SE Hortilux HPS 1000w.
The plant is a 2010 clone of Barneys Farm G13 x Haze. Before the company went to crap. Last harvest under 3 1000w Hortilux HPS and 6 plants in 20 gallons Promix BX, and 5 plants in 5 gallon, vegged 40 days, and flowered 70 days. I got 97oz.

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97oz from 3000watts is less than 1 gram a watt.

grotbags said:

97oz from 3000watts is less than 1 gram a watt.

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Yep and thats doing the lazy mans way, with no topping or any fancy stuff. Only bending 6 plants. I left the ones in the 5 gallon containers, and let them just grow. There wasnt enough room to bend them. The least amount of work you have to do. And I could have gotten more if I vegged them 20 more days. Or topped them, and vegged longer. I can do this every 110 days. Thats an average of 8.8oz per plant, on a 40 day veg. You wont find many strains that will beat that. Thats 915 grams per 1000w. Plenty good enough for me. Especially for the low amount of work involved. The worst part is hand watering them. And to add many strains wont produce alot of weed regardless of how theyre grown. How much you get per light is also strain dependent, and depends on how long you veg them. Ill settle for more than a 1/2lb per plant on a 40 days veg. at $240 an oz in my neck of the woods thats $23,280 worth of weed every 110 days. Or at $2100 an lb thats $12,371 worth of weed. Every 110 days. Im also in an unfriendly state, and with more plants, and less veg time, you can get more weight, but we dont want to have to many plants.