silk
Well-Known Member
Nah, I wasn't picking at you. Just trying to understand you. Can be tough on message boards.
Global Warming Swindle
- Thread starter ViRedd
- Start date
skunkushybrid
New Member
Too true. There's no tone.
ViRedd
New Member
So, I can't convince you guys, in spite of the evidence, that the U.S. (capitalism) is not the cause of the world's pollution? The fact that the pollution has gone down in the U.S. is not the reason pollution has gone up in other parts of the world. Pollution has been a part of the Third World long before Kyoto. Read the article I posted dated 1970.
Vi
Vi
Who blames the world's pollution on the U.S.? This is the first I have heard this and I do not agree with it. Everyone has played their part. Pollution is a byproduct of humanities progress. The sad thing is that it doesn't HAVE to be. We can progress AND be far more environmentally friendly.
Just to clear something up for myself. Do you believe that humanity has ANY negative impact on the planet ViiRedd? Set aside the whole global warming thing for a second. Do you think that the six billion living people on this planet are a large enough force to affect the globe?
ViRedd
New Member
"Just to clear something up for myself. Do you believe that humanity has ANY negative impact on the planet ViiRedd? Set aside the whole global warming thing for a second. Do you think that the six billion living people on this planet are a large enough force to affect the globe?"
Yes, I DO believe that mankind has a negative effect on the planet. I also believe that mankind has a positive effect as well. I'm a conservationist and have been since a little child who backpacked through the Sierras back in the 1940's. I've always believed in leaving the environment in which I camped in better condition than when I found it.
"We can progress AND be far more environmentally friendly."
I couldn't agree with you more. The point I've always made here is that capitalism and free markets are not the cause of pollution. The worst polluters have been anticapitalistic countries like Red China, the Soviet Union and the South American countries.
Vi
Yes, I DO believe that mankind has a negative effect on the planet. I also believe that mankind has a positive effect as well. I'm a conservationist and have been since a little child who backpacked through the Sierras back in the 1940's. I've always believed in leaving the environment in which I camped in better condition than when I found it.
"We can progress AND be far more environmentally friendly."
I couldn't agree with you more. The point I've always made here is that capitalism and free markets are not the cause of pollution. The worst polluters have been anticapitalistic countries like Red China, the Soviet Union and the South American countries.
Vi
skunkushybrid
New Member
Of course capitalism and free markets cause pollution vi'. I'm sure you meant we don't or haven't in the past caused as much as the red countries. Which really says nothing at all. I fail to see your point, it's like little kids accusing each other of starting the fight. Who cares about other countries? WE need to shoulder the responsibility, then pressurise the rest of the world into doing likewise.
ViRedd
New Member
"WE need to shoulder the responsibility ..."
1. At what cost to freedom?
2. We ARE doing our part. Our air, earth and water are cleaner than thirty years ago.
3. The reason I've taken the approach I have, is that most of the environmental stuff I've read is really an attack on capitalism and free markets, while holding a blind eye to the sewers of the third-world, repressive countries. That's about it.
Vi
1. At what cost to freedom?
2. We ARE doing our part. Our air, earth and water are cleaner than thirty years ago.
3. The reason I've taken the approach I have, is that most of the environmental stuff I've read is really an attack on capitalism and free markets, while holding a blind eye to the sewers of the third-world, repressive countries. That's about it.
Vi
Resinman
Well-Known Member
When it comes to CO2 emissions,,,The USA is tops in that polluting dept,,,china russia and india follow.
It has been more than 30 years since the original clean water act,,,what is amusing most states Did not monitor or begin testing All of there streams and lakes till 1991. Only partial tests were done so the numbers are sketchy. The Major Industrial Polluters did clean up there acts,,,but developmental,,and residential pollutions is soaring,,,yes,,growing.
here is one outlook of lets say Indianas water ways,,,
More than half of Indiana's industries and municipal wastewater plants violated their water discharge permits between January 2000 and March 2001, according to a study released in August by the U.S. Public Interest Research Group.
Thousands of fish are killed each year in an average of 35 separate incidents, usually from fertilizer or animal waste runoff from farm fields, sewer overflows or discharges of waste from livestock feeding operations.
The state Health Department has issued fish consumption advisories in all 92 Indiana counties this year, including warnings against eating any fish from 12 waterways, largely because of PCBs and heavy metals.
PERSISTING PROBLEMS
Now this is just a limited type of pollution that the planet is exposed to,,per capita right now USA leads the pact,,,wait in 20 years and look at asia india and russia. Soylent green here we come.
Another amazing tid bit,,,Most individuals that fish in fresh water lakes and streams will not drink the water,,,due to advisorys,,,but will eat the fish.
I would say that the clean water act is a partial success,,,or was,,,because are coastal waters especially in the gulf of mexico and the north atlantic are in worse shape than 30 years ago
resinman
It has been more than 30 years since the original clean water act,,,what is amusing most states Did not monitor or begin testing All of there streams and lakes till 1991. Only partial tests were done so the numbers are sketchy. The Major Industrial Polluters did clean up there acts,,,but developmental,,and residential pollutions is soaring,,,yes,,growing.
here is one outlook of lets say Indianas water ways,,,
More than half of Indiana's industries and municipal wastewater plants violated their water discharge permits between January 2000 and March 2001, according to a study released in August by the U.S. Public Interest Research Group.
Thousands of fish are killed each year in an average of 35 separate incidents, usually from fertilizer or animal waste runoff from farm fields, sewer overflows or discharges of waste from livestock feeding operations.
The state Health Department has issued fish consumption advisories in all 92 Indiana counties this year, including warnings against eating any fish from 12 waterways, largely because of PCBs and heavy metals.
PERSISTING PROBLEMS
- Fertilizer or animal waste runoff from farms or livestock operations.
- Runoff from lawns and construction sites.
- Discharge of untreated sewage from combined storm and sanitary sewers and septic systems.
- PCBs and heavy metals released into the atmosphere from manufacturing.
- The state is trying to determine how much pollution and sediment the impaired waterways can safely handle.
- Watershed management groups are forming to create plans for reducing runoff. * Farmers are being encouraged to adopt practices to control runoff.
- The public is encouraged to limit use of fertilizers and not wash cars on paved surfaces.
- Developers are being asked to make more use of paving bricks to allow water to seep into the ground.
Now this is just a limited type of pollution that the planet is exposed to,,per capita right now USA leads the pact,,,wait in 20 years and look at asia india and russia. Soylent green here we come.
Another amazing tid bit,,,Most individuals that fish in fresh water lakes and streams will not drink the water,,,due to advisorys,,,but will eat the fish.
I would say that the clean water act is a partial success,,,or was,,,because are coastal waters especially in the gulf of mexico and the north atlantic are in worse shape than 30 years ago
resinman
skunkushybrid
New Member
1. Are you talking material cost, monetary terms? What has money to do with ensuring that we aren't wiped out by the weather. All I can say to this Vi' is; remember Rome, it burned. The US has never had the best of weather conditions as it is. If I were YOU, I'd be very worried indeed. If anything can bring down the US, that thing is Nature.
2. We're not doing enough, we can do more. Each and every one of us. No, the Earth is in no way cleaner than 30 years ago. LOL. I don't care what bullshit stat's you pull to support this bullshit.
3. Your head is so full of shit. Things are happening that are surprising the scientists daily. There predictions being cast aside. They want you to believe that they have a handle on it, that everything is under control. The truth is the scientists don't know what is going to happen during this accelerated warming. Things are changing though Vi'. Maybe we are an illness to this Earth... maybe the Earth wants back it's trees. This Earth is older than the whole of the Human race, it has a power that can destroy us. If you want a god, then this is what you should believe in. It is this that has given you life, this that is your Mother. It's not about money, it's about our future.
medicineman
New Member
Tell him skunk, go get him, the venemous one. He has no cares for anything that doesn't affect him either financially or for worldly problems. It's all about him!
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
Yes the USA is the largest pollutter on the planet.
There is NO question regarding this.. The people who live in the USA consume something LIKE 33% of all the earths resources...
And the cost on the enviroment is HUGE...
Trucks, Trains, Jets, Tankers.. factories, chemicals, farms etc.. all producing massive amounts of goods so that FAT ASSES in the USA can stuff themselves to the point of obecity... people leaving TV sets, lightbulbs, computers etc ON all day for NO reason...
Freedom my ass.. this place is not free.. The USA is a MACHINE that encourages LYING and deception.. in a free society.. people would accept one another, there would be tollerance....
The USA has pockets of freedom seekers... but for the most part, this COUNTRY is full of GLUTONOUS, FEARFUL, IGNORANT, FAT ASSES.. and they live in delusion and dishonesty
iloveyou
There is NO question regarding this.. The people who live in the USA consume something LIKE 33% of all the earths resources...
And the cost on the enviroment is HUGE...
Trucks, Trains, Jets, Tankers.. factories, chemicals, farms etc.. all producing massive amounts of goods so that FAT ASSES in the USA can stuff themselves to the point of obecity... people leaving TV sets, lightbulbs, computers etc ON all day for NO reason...
Freedom my ass.. this place is not free.. The USA is a MACHINE that encourages LYING and deception.. in a free society.. people would accept one another, there would be tollerance....
The USA has pockets of freedom seekers... but for the most part, this COUNTRY is full of GLUTONOUS, FEARFUL, IGNORANT, FAT ASSES.. and they live in delusion and dishonesty
iloveyou
medicineman
New Member
Hey, you are so right it is scary. Listen, should I turn out my grow lights to conserve energy and just put my plants out on the front lawn (South facing side of the house) and take my chances with the law, naw, just kidding, I'll have to find some of those carbon credits gore talks about, although with my credit, I doubt it!
ViRedd
New Member
Trucks, Trains, Jets, Tankers.. factories, chemicals, farms etc.. all producing massive amounts of goods so that FAT ASSES in the USA can stuff themselves to the point of obecity... people leaving TV sets, lightbulbs, computers etc ON all day for NO reason...
The obesity problem is being caused by the High Fructose Corn Syrup that's been put in our processed foods for the past thirty years.
And, I suppose you grow all of your foods and never step foot in a market? You know ... those markets where you can buy out of season fruits and vegetable all year long that are brought to market by "Trucks, Trains, Jets, Tankers" and grown on "farms" that use "chemicals" making our farms the most efficient in the entire world?
"The USA has pockets of freedom seekers... but for the most part, this COUNTRY is full of GLUTONOUS, FEARFUL, IGNORANT, FAT ASSES.. and they live in delusion and dishonesty."
If Americans are the glutonous, fearful, ignorant fat asses you describe, would you please explain how it is that Americans can out produce everyone else on the friggin' planet?
And by the way, Americans and American industry consume more becasue we PRODUCE more. What would you answer be? Shut down industry? Shut down production? Shut down progress?
Vi
The obesity problem is being caused by the High Fructose Corn Syrup that's been put in our processed foods for the past thirty years.
And, I suppose you grow all of your foods and never step foot in a market? You know ... those markets where you can buy out of season fruits and vegetable all year long that are brought to market by "Trucks, Trains, Jets, Tankers" and grown on "farms" that use "chemicals" making our farms the most efficient in the entire world?
"The USA has pockets of freedom seekers... but for the most part, this COUNTRY is full of GLUTONOUS, FEARFUL, IGNORANT, FAT ASSES.. and they live in delusion and dishonesty."
If Americans are the glutonous, fearful, ignorant fat asses you describe, would you please explain how it is that Americans can out produce everyone else on the friggin' planet?
And by the way, Americans and American industry consume more becasue we PRODUCE more. What would you answer be? Shut down industry? Shut down production? Shut down progress?
Vi
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
Of course you can put your plants on the front lawn.. this is a FREE country.. there ARE AMERICAN kids dying in IRAQ right now for your freedom and your right to grow plants on YOUR front lawn.... enjoy your freedoms!!!
People are dying so we can be FREE... I feel soooooo GOOD about my freedom!!!
lol.....
People are dying so we can be FREE... I feel soooooo GOOD about my freedom!!!
lol.....
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
please define "progress"...
and there is a lot more than corn syrup my dear friend....
The things you say may all be very true.... but it is not a THIS or THAT situation..
And you sure as fuck KNOW why the USA out produces so many other countries... come on.. be HONEST and let the truth be told...
iloveyou
great post by the way!!! vi
ViRedd
New Member
please define "progress"...
Living in a society where 68% of the people own their own homes. Living in a society where the few do not plunder the many. Living in a society that has the rule of law. Living in a society where choices in food, clothing, housing, education and recreation are abundant.
and there is a lot more than corn syrup my dear friend....
If you haven't done so, do a Google search on High Fructose Corn Syrup. Then ask yourself why, over the past 30 years, has the two epidemics of Type-2 Diabetes and Obesity hit this country so hard. I think you may be suprised by the answer you come up with.
And you sure as fuck KNOW why the USA out produces so many other countries... come on.. be HONEST and let the truth be told...
Not sure I know what you're driving at, but if you were to ask me why, I'd say because of our capitalistic, relatively free markets ... and the fact that Americans on the average work their freakin' asses off.
Vi
Living in a society where 68% of the people own their own homes. Living in a society where the few do not plunder the many. Living in a society that has the rule of law. Living in a society where choices in food, clothing, housing, education and recreation are abundant.
and there is a lot more than corn syrup my dear friend....
If you haven't done so, do a Google search on High Fructose Corn Syrup. Then ask yourself why, over the past 30 years, has the two epidemics of Type-2 Diabetes and Obesity hit this country so hard. I think you may be suprised by the answer you come up with.
And you sure as fuck KNOW why the USA out produces so many other countries... come on.. be HONEST and let the truth be told...
Not sure I know what you're driving at, but if you were to ask me why, I'd say because of our capitalistic, relatively free markets ... and the fact that Americans on the average work their freakin' asses off.
Vi
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
Great info.. and yes americans do work there ass off..... in the 40+ countries i have visited I have not seen anybody work as hard as americans.. let me tell you what else I noticed..
I have also noticed that the usa leads in..
1. fear (our society is pathetic and completely paralized in fear)
2. unfriendlyness (not only the street people but US customs is barbaric)
3. most judegmental
4. Largest promoters of LYING, Secrets, and manipulations
Also, the USA takes complete advantage of its power and is not a good role model for the rest of the world.. everybody can admitthat if everybody on planet earth lived like US citizens the earth would "DIE"
Progress, is when we move towrds setting an example for others.. something obtainable and healthy.... And I do think we are moving towards this..
BTW.. we don't have education in this country.. we have a system that churns out drones.. as THIS or THAT society.. a society where I am right and you are wrong... or vice versa...
A society that gives tools to our kids to interpret the world and says "THESE tools are the ONLY correct tools" and all others must die who go against our interpretation... we have a society that teaches that it is better to be right than wrong even if ONE is WRONG... cause RIGHT means we WIN..
IT is always US and THEM....
but thiings will change... LOVE is coming.... the tide will turn..
iloveyou
skunkushybrid
New Member
I like the last bit the best... the tide will turn, very apt. It could well be the weather that brings the US to it's knees.
This could be the history repeating itself a lot of people on here go on about all the time.
What else could topple the US?
ViRedd
New Member
"BTW.. we don't have education in this country.. we have a system that churns out drones..."
Well, we certainly agree on this issue, GK. Are you an advocate of privatizing the schools as I am? I mean, after all ... we DO live in a society where government monopolizes the education systems, and like most other things government touches, it eventually rots due to gross inefficiency.
As for the rest of your post ... If the area in which you live is truely that negative, I'd suggest that you move to a brighter environment. Either that, or change to a more positive mental attitude. Honestly, I don't see the world, country, county, city or street that I live on to be the Hell-Hole you described. Where do you live again?
Vi
Well, we certainly agree on this issue, GK. Are you an advocate of privatizing the schools as I am? I mean, after all ... we DO live in a society where government monopolizes the education systems, and like most other things government touches, it eventually rots due to gross inefficiency.
As for the rest of your post ... If the area in which you live is truely that negative, I'd suggest that you move to a brighter environment. Either that, or change to a more positive mental attitude. Honestly, I don't see the world, country, county, city or street that I live on to be the Hell-Hole you described. Where do you live again?
Vi
Garden Knowm
The Love Doctor
nice try....
- its called relativity..ps - maybe I should come to your house and you can counsel me ???