Gavita Double Ended/LEP Top Drip RockWool 4x8 Tech Tent Journal

Wow. Ok, so it's been a long week, and I'm starting off a journal on my current grow, so that hopefully others can add advice, and observe my results while demo-ing some of the newest grow gear.

BACKGROUND:
I have been growing for 5 years. I have grown in just about every medium/method I know of. I work for a large Hydroponics/Organics grow supplier in COLORADO. (I can hear the BOOOs already. No, I am not the guy that sells you a bottle. I am the guy who tests EVERYTHING, and gives growers honest opinions, because I want people to be successful. Plus, I don't make commission) My grow is under a CO medical card with an enhanced plant count. I currently possess ~13 strains, phenotypes specifically chosen for certain properties by other growers I know. This thread is not so much for the newbie as it is for the intermediate/advanced grower. I apologize in advance but I WILL NOT respond to "low-level" questions. My schedule is very busy, and I'm afraid I just don't have the time. So... lets get to the mother fucking spec's:

GROW SPACE: 4x8 Gorilla Grow Tent

LIGHTING: 2x Gavita Remote Hood, Phantom DE 120/240v Ballast, Phillips Greenpower Double Ended HPS (which BTW are no longer produced under the Phillips name; Next Choice? Agrosun DE HPS, I've seen the spec sheets)
1x Gavita 270w GROW SPECTRUM Light Emitting Plasma (To balance out the HPS spectrum; in theory)

MEDIUM: Grodan Rockwool HUGOs set on 6"x6" cuts from Grodan 6"x36"x3" slabs, cut to size, in 6.5"x9" black square "rose" buckets/pots

IRRIGATION: 1x Eco 1500gph ELITE sump pump. 3/4" PVC w/ 3/8" Top hat grommets to 3/16 tubing to BLACK HOLES drippers. The drain lines may be run recirculating/drain to waste VIA condensate pumps on the drain line. I CURRENTLY run my nutes TO WASTE.

TRAYS: Botanicare 3x3 (37"x37" OD) Low Tide Trays - 3/4" tub outlet fitting drain runoff to the condensate pump, which goes to the waste bucket. (5 gal)

ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS:
1x iPONIC 614 w/ Communication module. I can control all my equipment and settings as well as view graphs of temp/humidity/co2.

1x Edgestar 14,000 BTU Dual Hose AC - Piped into the tent via insulated 6" ducting fitted to the AC output.

1x 50 pint Dehumidifier - Waste waterr from humidifier runs to condensate pump and is pumped to a 5gal waste bucket to be recycled into the humidifier.

1x DIY High Volume Humidifier - 5 gal bucket, with 4" axial fan pushing air in, and a 3 site ultrasonic fogger on a float in the bucket to create the fog that is pushed out by the axial fan into the room, creating humidity.

1x 20lb CO2 Tank w/ Titan controls regulator. CO2 drilled tubing is run in a loop above the canopy, since CO2 is heavier than air and will "fall" into the canopy.

2x Eco Hurricane 16" Wall Mount fan. These are mounted to wooden slats zip tied to the tent frame. Different levels of brackets are drilled and mounted in the wood slats so fans height can be raised throught the grow progression.
ALL EQUIPMENT IS ROUTED TO THE iPONIC CONTROLLER FOR ON/OFF CONTROL.

1x Sentinel DRT-1A Digital Recycle Timer. All Irrigation is daytime only. Irrigation times vary by plant needs. This controller actives the Eco Elite 1500 pump to the manifold.

1x Guardian UVC unit - This kills/sterilizes any mold/pollen spores in the room. It runs 24/7.

ENVIRONMENTAL SETTINGS:
Temp: Day - 78-86 degrees Night - 68-74 degrees
Humidity: 30% - 50% (Usually around 40-45)
CO2 - Daytime only. 1500ppm/100ppm deadband.

RESERVOIR: 50 gallon drum
Monitor: Blue Lab Guardian
Aeration/Circ Pump - Eco Elite 1500 - 10min on every 30 mins to avoid res temp climb.

NUTRIENTS:
H&G Aqua Flakes
Additives: H&G Additives + Minor Deviations for like product at reduced cost.

FOLIAR SPRAY: CES, Silicates, Harpin Proteins, Azasol, Uber, Canna, Yucca, Ecklonia Kelp, & Snow Storm. These are diluted and used at different phases, at different concentrations according to my personal recipe. I use a Fog Master Jr ATOMIZER to apply my foliar sprays. It greatly reduces costs and applies to the leaves better.

STRAINS:
I have never done consecutive runs of the same strains. Yes, I know this doesn't allow me to "dial in" my strains, but I have numerous strains to go through and test before I pick my keepers and new ones coming in every day. So, presume I have no real knowledge of the BEST way to feed/prune/grow these strains.

NUMBERS: 9 plants/light

That being said, this run is:

9x Purple Trainwreck (known purple phenotype, should be quite pretty!)
8x Tahoe OG x Black Mamba (lost one to botrytis early, hence the

CURRENT WEEK:

Going into week 4 of flower in 2 days. At flip lights were off for 36 hours to create a large imbalance in phytochrome, and initiate a stronger flowering response.

GOAL: 2+lbs per light. Note I said GOAL.

Now, I'm not new to these forums, I just do more reading than posting. Trolling, bickering, and idiots who think they're gods gift to gardens and their way is the right way, fuck off. This is about learning for me, and if you think you're done learning, you can go hang out with the trolls. I'm no "master grower" (and frankly, to me anyone who claims that title is a fucking idiot) and I'm not putting anything out there to suggest it.

I will take pictures as soon as lights come on tomorrow and the res has been reset to week 4. Resin production already looks ahead of schedule, as does bud formation. I have some equipment issues, so things aren't running full bore right now. Lots of work to do!

PEACE

Looking forward to seeing your pics. I also live in Colorado. Fort Collins . I do a flood and drain in rockwool and have been thinking of trying a drip feed .

had any problems yet? id love to see these lights.

^^ wut he said... those lights sound sexy and expensive, lol...

Flagg420 said:

^^ wut he said... those lights sound sexy and expensive, lol...

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i have de lights but they're not gavitas, they do great. i hope the hype pans out, this should be good. i have a bud boner.

I wanna look into CMH too

best move anyone can make gavitas double ended with control it gona shock the shit out of you also need 3 feet thier is no buts or ifs about it big dog you need head room also movers it will shock the shit out of you its suposte to be top secret but fuck it right!!!!!! woops if its a thowie you need 3 feet but never heard of it being that kinda wattage.. lets see some pics

Sorry for the late posting. Had to swap in a new AC today, grab a new strain for the breeding project, and worked a long day doing inventory.

I have run the double ended bulbs as close as 16" OPEN HOOD. Yes, you will see leaf heat curl.
The Plasma is very cool, in terms of heat output. Here are the ladies, first day of week four.

DAY 21 FLOWER:

I have a co-worker running a double ended Ushio bulb (1900um) in the new Phantom 6" DE AC hood. He
water cools his grow so I hooked him up with some 6" ice boxes. He's supposed to throw the PAR meter
under it tonight. He says his Blueberry Headband is ~ 8" from the hood, no heat stress yet. I may move to this setup in the future, depending on how I choose to cool my larger grows AND depending on the numbers
since DE bulbs put out A LOT of heat to achieve the output and PAR that they do.

I saw someone mention CERAMIC DISHCHARGE LIGHTING. I have two units from local companies (DNA & Summit Lighting)
running Philips Mastercolor 930/942 bulbs. THEY ARE THE SHIT FOR VEG!!! Open hood I have 1000+ um @ 1' whereas
my 4' 8 bulb 400w T5 barely breaks 500um AT THE BULB!!!

The DNA unit can run 120/240 - Sadly the summit one is 240v only (Meh, can't cry too much, they gave me the unit for free to test.
Ran 1 DE + 2 CDL last flower run. The results weren't the highest in terms of weight (1.73lb/light) but it was only 6 plants. Now I've upped the light, thrown in a scrog and addes the plasma and upped CO2 to 1500ppm.

Both Gavita hoods are @ 750W right now to give the new AC a break in period.

dadio161 said:

Looking forward to seeing your pics. I also live in Colorado. Fort Collins . I do a flood and drain in rockwool and have been thinking of trying a drip feed .

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I flood my veg space right now for ease. I will be redesigning my drip system next run and doing less plants (6/light) in big mamas to test yield potential, run new strains, and look at scalability for when I have the space to throw up ~7-8k.

I think top drip is the way to go, depending on plant count, and the ability to control watering for more generative growth. I'm trying to water right as the cubes are almost dry to create stress and a higher desire to produce as an evolutionary response in the plants.

I'll be switching from1/4 block hole drippers to 1/2 black hole drippers/ 6" hydro halos for a side by side on evenness of block saturation and to dial in feed times.

Alienwidow said:

had any problems yet? id love to see these lights.

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"Problems" to me is a relative term. My issue is ceiling height, so I have wound up with a bit of leaf curl in the past.
I use silica religiously to increase water retention, but a higher ceiling would be preferred when running full bore. For low
ceilings/hobbyists (which I suppose I can technically be called) the Gavita 600/750 may be better. Remember, I'm running the remote
hoods, partially so I don't have my ballasts in the room/more heat and the ballast sticks up limiting the height a bit in low ceiling situations.

Other than that, none. The reflectors are cheap and easy to replace, they're small and light, they're very efficient. And the bulbs don't need to be swapped for a year.
I may run them longer.

I also have DE MH bulbs from solistek, 6k and 10k. For veg however I prefer the CDL lights, as they run cooler, and have better par. I may mix plasmas and CDLs
at some point over my veg. Currently I have a 430w LED over one veg and T5s over another area.

As for the DE HPS, AC hoods (Phantom) may make the best of everything, seeing as it could be placed closer to the canopy if its passive/actively cooled
and water cooling with ice boxes intrigues me.

Theory:
Open Gavita Hood- PROS= More UV + More light @ canopy. CONS= Light has to be higher above canopy to avoid heat stress.

AC Hood + IceBox- PROS= Cooler; light can be placed closer to canopy; reduced distance to canopy may proved MORE light even through glass; Reduced AC requirements for cooling CONS= Glass absorbs some light; Less UV (potentially affecting resin production)

also in fort collins, gonna keep watching this out of curiousity. are the lights on when you take the pics?

borbor said:

also in fort collins, gonna keep watching this out of curiousity. are the lights on when you take the pics?

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Yes, the lights are on when I take images. I shoot through my Method 7 Resistance glasses for "white balance" because I'm lazy/tired every night when I get to the garden.
At the finish I'll have to bust out the Canon 1Ds and do some real shots/macros.

LivingCanvas said:

Yes, the lights are on when I take images. I shoot through my Method 7 Resistance glasses for "white balance" because I'm lazy/tired every night when I get to the garden.
At the finish I'll have to bust out the Canon 1Ds and do some real shots/macros.

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i just picked up some method sevens a couple weeks back. those things are so nice, you can't really explain to someone how much better they are than without them, they have to try them on and see for themselves.

so as for the several lighting options you have mentioned, are we to expect some tests coming soon to see which option is the most productive?

Hey man sweet to see some1 else running gavita and having great success. Good looking buds i too run 2 1000w de gavita on a light mover dialed down to the 750 wattage and have not noticed ne drop in yield under same amount of space. Ive recently been thinking of tryinf a plasma. Or mb even led. What do you think based on ur overall experience

Alienwidow said:

so as for the several lighting options you have mentioned, are we to expect some tests coming soon to see which option is the most productive?

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I have run the following setups in this environment:

2x 1000w Standard HPS in Magnum XXL 8" Air cooled with 1250ppm Co2
3x 600w Hortilux HPS in Radiant 8" Air cooled with 1250ppm Co2
1x Ushio DE (1900um) + 2x 315w CDL in Xtrasun wings 1250ppm CO2
and now
2x 1000w Philips Greenpower DE HPS + 1x 270 E LEP Grow Spectrum 1500ppm CO2

I wish I had the time and space to do a full piece by piece comparison, however
I am merely following the technical progression of the market, testing different setups
and pursuing the "advertising dictated" "optimum setup" - Yes I know the gear will respond
differently in different spaces. I am merely observing and relaying "educated" observations
on results.

Since I am running new strains every time, and not "dialing in" each STRAIN, I am focusing
on dialing the environment to "research based optimums" as best I can, and seeing about
what the intermediate/advanced grower SHOULD be capable of.

No 1 strain, unless specifically by clone distribution, can be replicated exactly. I would
simply like to relate info to those who want to have a better look at newer equipment, without
bullshit hype.

I'll take some measurements at the canopy of light intensity with the next photos.

grazinChocolope said:

Hey man sweet to see some1 else running gavita and having great success. Good looking buds i too run 2 1000w de gavita on a light mover dialed down to the 750 wattage and have not noticed ne drop in yield under same amount of space. Ive recently been thinking of tryinf a plasma. Or mb even led. What do you think based on ur overall experience

Click to expand...

I'm literally giving away thousands of dollars worth of LEDs right now. I seriously will stab my fucking eyes out if I have to stare at that pink shit any longer.

LEDs - Tricky. They tell you it replaces XXXXwatts but only uses XXXX watts! What a savings! Not quite. I'll elaborate more in detail if requested. Less yield in my experience, but more resin production. Not as much penetration. Big units still generate heat. (watts are watts!!! which = btu 3.414btu/watt)
CDL (Ceramic Discharge Lighting 315w Philips Mastercolor 942/930) Best damn veg light in my opinion. Not much more heat than LEDs, better output/watt. Decent penetration but can be close to canopy ~1' due to LOWER heat.
LEP (Light Emitting Plasma) BEST SPECTRUM!!!!! Not as much output as CDL, because of glass (to block microwaves used to fire the bulb) Best as SUPPLEMENTAL/SMALL VEG. PRICEY!!!

i haven't seen your finished results. just getting there, but it seems to be tall and quick. i can see why you like the phillips bulbs for veg. hid always makes a tall plant imo.
i can see the less yield thing with leds but you say they have more resin yet you also say the leps have the best spectrum. not for flower? also id correlate best spectrum with resin. is that all around best spectrum or just specific light cycles?

Alienwidow said:

i haven't seen your finished results. just getting there, but it seems to be tall and quick. i can see why you like the phillips bulbs for veg. hid always makes a tall plant imo.
i can see the less yield thing with leds but you say they have more resin yet you also say the leps have the best spectrum. not for flower? also id correlate best spectrum with resin. is that all around best spectrum or just specific light cycles?

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I use Ceramics for veg. The phillips bulbs are DE HPS for flower.

LEDs tend to focus in the 420/480nm blue and 630/660 nm red and nothing else. This has changed a bit since I messed seriously with LEDs.
Those nm wavelengths basically follow the chlorophyll A&B "spikes" in photosynthesis. However, other wavelength are useful for other plant processes.

PLASMA basically mimics the SUN. It has high energy output throughout the full PAR spectrum. LEDs do not.

LEP comes in (Gavita) 41.01 = More Red/HPS supplement - 41.02 = More FULL spectrum and as such, "suggested" more for veg.
I don't see any reason not to use the 41.02 GROW spectrum to more fully supplement the high reds of the HPS. So I use 41.02s.

These plants were vegged under Ceramic lights, then Solistek 6k MH DE bulbs(which unless running 1000w put out less PAR than the
CDLs at the required distance (due to much more heat than a Ceramic) so I'll likely only use the 10k DE MH Solistek bulbs to finish.
May not need to as resin production is coming in nicely.