Free Grow Software!

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
Wow, Lucifer. I haven't tried your program yet, but you offer some good support here and get new features in!:clap: I will be surely using this program soon. What do you think about integration for climate readings into this system: http://www.sonomawineaccessories.com/wine-accessories/wine-cellar-temperature-sensors/wireless-sensor ? It is the cheapest I can find that can remotely tell you of the climate in the room(s).
That's a nice combo and I like the sensors, too bad it has to upload the data to their site first (for a fee) and you can't read it directly. If you buy one send me one of the data files it generates and I can write in support for importing it into herb.iq directly.

Lx
 

randomseed

Active Member
OK spent a decent amount of time working with it yesterday and loading it with data. Ive got a laundry list of usablity issue but overall I think the structure is solid and I can see the data design behind it and this its the right way to design something like this. Great work, after some more upgrades it's better then any of the other garden tracking software Ive tried, good enough to be charging for once its smoothed out a little. I am a 10 year .NET developer as well so I appriciate how complicated some of this could be/get.

1) having to click "new" all the time is unnessasary. Replace with "Save" and "Save as new", also makes cloning much simpler then what is in place.
2) again having to click "New" to create the first entry in a catagory is totally uneeded. Fields shold be enabled assuming new record
3) Custom Events - I can tell the system is actually reporting the date that the filed CHANGE was made instead of using the date (value) of the parameter.
This does not make sence and makes the queries almost useless, it only lines up if you enter the data on the date of the data's value ie day of. This could get complicated.
4) quantity does not really help and the clone grouping is also kinda usless. Grouping should group the plants under a common name and then show those grouped plants under that name in a tree view on the plant panels. Then you could group them under say "Lemon Batch 1" - lemon 1, lemon 2, lemon 3 etc...
5) with named grouping add option for events to apply to all plants in my group
6) some data should be shared within the groups. This gets complicated because youd have to decide what always applys to a specific plant and what can be overloaded by the group values.
7) strains should be tracked as an entity like plants/equip ect... some of the data that belongs to plants should be pulled directly from a strain instead
8) auto field updates - my biggest issue is that fields dont update automatically, sometimes you have to click around and reload lists in order to get newer values to show up, also the sorting is all messed up when adding new items, the lists should sort automatically on additions and updates. Many fields need to have dependencies created so that updates to one fields reflect on related fields immedietly.
9) some of the tabs could be hidden from the base UI and accessed via popups or models from their parent info tabs, makes it easier to tell say that your adding equipment to a room since you accessed the equip tab from a specific room record. Tabs could always be accessed through a menu option or something like that for global edits. Its just to easy to forget about the drop downs appling say a plant to a room.

Thats the short list, again it is a great start and already better then most of whats out there. The addition of a reporting suite would do alot just because when I think of the questions I would want to ask the software and the types of queries involved it gets insanly complicated in a hurry. I would think nailing down some of these issue would take precidence over adding sensors and the like but in the long run those things could bring it into the world of commercial software quickly. On that front Id personally ask for Insteon support over z-wave and any proprietary techs, its used more often and is easier to work with then the rest. I know its not mac software but being able to do somethign like just read data from say Indigo or some other home management software would be awesome and take the load off of your software actually having to talk to the hardware. I would think most people would have a mangement hardware system already before going to buy sensor hardware to support a free application with no technical support provided.

Beign a .NET app opening it up to a web interface should be simple and OH my goodness would it increase the value of the app. No need to write tablet apps or anything just provide a web UI to the data and bam, ipad,iphone,tablet remote access the whole damn nine yards.

Not knocking the app at all, like I said its probably the best approch to the data Ive seen so far and Im def going to be using it. I just dedicated one of my old laptops to it!
 

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
Well that's a lot of feedback, you wanna help with some of that work being a .net developer too? :mrgreen: I know about most everything you mentioned and will eventually work it all out over time, my time available to the project tends to flucuate a lot especially around harvest time ;) I've already started a webapp, it's working fine just doesn't support everything yet, it's on google's site only right now and will eventually have full support over time as well.

Lx
 

randomseed

Active Member
Well that's a lot of feedback, you wanna help with some of that work being a .net developer too? :mrgreen: I know about most everything you mentioned and will eventually work it all out over time, my time available to the project tends to flucuate a lot especially around harvest time ;) I've already started a webapp, it's working fine just doesn't support everything yet, it's on google's site only right now and will eventually have full support over time as well.

Lx
I could probably contribute some, I may take a look at the repo this weekend if I get a chance. For the quick and dirty web ui just having the plant editor in there would be enough for like 75% of the usability since thats obviously the part most used (picturing walking around the room entering info on my 'pad already).
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Nice..

Didn't read all the pages but cool.

Linux supports whole harddrive encryption and other security measures.

Windows gives me the willies.

I work in C and I write data encoders. I could write some pass-phrase encoding stuff.. Nothing super secure but it would make it harder to decipher data files.
 

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
Ya has the main plant tab stuff in there right now, is pretty ugly as I have yet to built a profile system for different device formats.

Lx
 

Attachments

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
Nice..

Didn't read all the pages but cool.

Linux supports whole harddrive encryption and other security measures.

Windows gives me the willies.

I work in C and I write data encoders. I could write some pass-phrase encoding stuff.. Nothing super secure but it would make it harder to decipher data files.
Do you want to try to load up the web project with xsp4 from the mono project? Is here --> http://code.google.com/p/herbiq/downloads/detail?name=HERB.IQ.ASP.NET.RELEASE.2.ZIP&can=2&q=
 

vbp

Member
Hey Lucifer, great work. I do mostly web dev but definitely appreciate the amount of time put into this. I have my own garden management app that I've just recently launched for others to use. I'd love to get some feedback from a fellow developer (especially one working on a similar problem).

I think one of the main differences in our approaches is how everything is logged. In my system, all updates to the different resource types are logged (similar to your Events) with associated resources (different resource types depening on the update type). That way you'll be able to generate statistics you didn't anticipate originally. Ie, when a plant is watered, the nutrient solution and water system are logged along with the time. So right now, I have it creating a feeding schedule/history based on what the plant was fed and how. But in the future I'll link up the nutrient solution ph and ppm so you can see that progression throughout a plant's life-cycle (and find the progression from your highest yielders).

If you have a few minutes check it out and let me know what you think.
http://cannalogy.com
http://cannalogy.com/help (a good overview without setting up an account)

vbp
 

randomseed

Active Member
Hey Lucifer, great work. I do mostly web dev but definitely appreciate the amount of time put into this. I have my own garden management app that I've just recently launched for others to use. I'd love to get some feedback from a fellow developer (especially one working on a similar problem).

I think one of the main differences in our approaches is how everything is logged. In my system, all updates to the different resource types are logged (similar to your Events) with associated resources (different resource types depening on the update type). That way you'll be able to generate statistics you didn't anticipate originally. Ie, when a plant is watered, the nutrient solution and water system are logged along with the time. So right now, I have it creating a feeding schedule/history based on what the plant was fed and how. But in the future I'll link up the nutrient solution ph and ppm so you can see that progression throughout a plant's life-cycle (and find the progression from your highest yielders).

If you have a few minutes check it out and let me know what you think.
http://cannalogy.com
http://cannalogy.com/help (a good overview without setting up an account)

vbp
A web based (non-local) grow database is scary as hell. Would never ever ever touch it. Would you release your grow info to a stranger?
Now a local web interface to an application db is much less scary, it can be locked down to local network only. looks nice though.

On HighIQ its kinda an iffy idea to tie fields to plant phases but it would be nice if moving the plant from phase veg to flower or clone to veg would set the correct dates for you, I noticed the autoevents are linked to setting the date field and not the actual phase change - thinking they should be interlinked. Not sure if phases should be an editable type, or just add only (no rename or remove) to keep the phase to field relations valid.

Finally got the cloning piece down, that part was confusing as hell. Shortcut hint is to use the options clear dates and use todays date as clone date if actually creating a new clone record. Had to mess with that for awhile until I understood what I was actually doing with it. Again the current grouping option for cloning makes no sense to me.

Small addition - allow printing of plant ID tags or somekind of cheat sheet print out (strain,id,dates) to attach to the pots. Since Im adding data in bulk Im not tracking my real plant to plant record very well and just treating as batches.
 

randomseed

Active Member
one more simple one.
Add option to autrofresh data on an interval (1 min,10min,1 hr etc....)
I forget to hit that refresh on the home page all the time and wonder where my new records are.
 

vbp

Member
Hey randomseed, thanks for taking a look. I agree that web-based growing stuff can be a little unnerving, but people post grow logs on forums like this all the time and in pretty great detail. Using proxies or tor you are more or less anonymous. You may also control the privacy per resource, so you're able to share what you want and hide what you don't (ie, share the nutrients you're using but maybe not the exact ratio). As far as our company goes...we are a small (3 person, 1 admin) California-based company. I have no vested interest in your current garden temperature or ph levels :). I've been using this software (or some version of it) for about 2 years and am very comfortable with its security. On top of that there are many different uses. Since you can reconstruct past plant cycles with the time managed updates, you could create 'ideal' grows for teaching or planning purposes.

That being said, we do offer private installs of our software for collectives, but that isn't free so I didn't post it

...The phase change dates for plants are recorded for you automatically (or manually if you are behind on updates).
 

randomseed

Active Member
Hey randomseed, thanks for taking a look. I agree that web-based growing stuff can be a little unnerving, but people post grow logs on forums like this all the time and in pretty great detail. Using proxies or tor you are more or less anonymous. You may also control the privacy per resource, so you're able to share what you want and hide what you don't (ie, share the nutrients you're using but maybe not the exact ratio). As far as our company goes...we are a small (3 person, 1 admin) California-based company. I have no vested interest in your current garden temperature or ph levels :). I've been using this software (or some version of it) for about 2 years and am very comfortable with its security. On top of that there are many different uses. Since you can reconstruct past plant cycles with the time managed updates, you could create 'ideal' grows for teaching or planning purposes.

That being said, we do offer private installs of our software for collectives, but that isn't free so I didn't post it

...The phase change dates for plants are recorded for you automatically (or manually if you are behind on updates).
But what if the feds come knocking on your door for the data. on the federal level it would be easy for them to get a judge to sign that warrent (housing information on illegal activity cross state, instant approval). Hope them servers are in india or something.
As a web developer I normally say dev for web for almost everything but in this case local apps only apply.
 

vbp

Member
If you don't follow state medical guidelines (or arent in another country with different laws) you definitely shouldn't use our site. If you keep your local computer clean of browsing history and use something to obfuscate your original ip, you'll be ok (same as here). We do not associate IPs with accounts and emails are optional for registration. Basically, I see the security of our site similar to the security of the forums. The major difference is that we are not a forum/discussion area. You can get an overview of a plant's history on one page rather than reading a multi-page thread. I think the main advantage a forum like this would get from using us is that it might make the conversations easier/less cluttered.

IMO, because most people have internet connections that are always on, local storage vs web doesn't make too much difference (encrypted files excepted). I'm as protective of my CC# and bank account as my garden but I still use online banking...

Edit:
Would you be more willing to use it if it used HTML5 local storage instead of a remote db?
 

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
If you don't follow state medical guidelines (or arent in another country with different laws) you definitely shouldn't use our site. If you keep your local computer clean of browsing history and use something to obfuscate your original ip, you'll be ok (same as here). We do not associate IPs with accounts and emails are optional for registration. Basically, I see the security of our site similar to the security of the forums. The major difference is that we are not a forum/discussion area. You can get an overview of a plant's history on one page rather than reading a multi-page thread. I think the main advantage a forum like this would get from using us is that it might make the conversations easier/less cluttered.

IMO, because most people have internet connections that are always on, local storage vs web doesn't make too much difference (encrypted files excepted). I'm as protective of my CC# and bank account as my garden but I still use online banking...

Edit:
Would you be more willing to use it if it used HTML5 local storage instead of a remote db?
Hey vbp, I like the use of HTML5 in your project, very nice use of the latest standards and I like the general clean/non-intrusive layout. I'd have to agree strongly with randomseed on the privacy, no httpS and it defaults to public for everything you post would keep me from using it. Even if the data was stored locally I would still not use it because my data would still need to go across the internet, a local install would be mandatory. A lot of people won't even use local installs because they don't trust the closed source code, who knows if your code is phoning home or leaving your data exposed for someone else to read.
 

vbp

Member
Hey Lucifer, thanks for letting me invade your thread for a sec :) and I appreciate the feedback.

Https is available. It defaults to it on the registration and log in pages and then when you log in you have the option of forcing SSL on every request while you're logged in. You can use it even if you aren't logged in just by adding the 's'.

Privacy settings: yes, good point. We'll default it to private from here on out, then give users the option of changing their default. As of right now you can bulk edit the privacy on all of your resources from your dashboard. One click and you're good.

I definitely understand the hesitation to use it. I've had this conversation with more than a couple people. But I'm confused about the hesitation to use it from people who post on forums? Isn't it the same information just formatted differently? A grow log on a forum typically provides the age of plants, pictures etc. You just take precautions not to post any landmarks, addresses and the like?

I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. A few years ago, I probably wouldn't have made the argument. But as a CA prop 215 compliant grower with a small garden (the average user?) I feel pretty safe with basic precautions. Having stats about avg flower times for my strains, for example, doesn't seem like more of a security risk than being on a forum?

Maybe in a few more years :)

...and I can't stress enough that (imo) a Windows machine on an internet connection is as vulnerable as any website/internet-bound data.
 

LuciferX

Well-Known Member
Hey Lucifer, thanks for letting me invade your thread for a sec :) and I appreciate the feedback.

Https is available. It defaults to it on the registration and log in pages and then when you log in you have the option of forcing SSL on every request while you're logged in. You can use it even if you aren't logged in just by adding the 's'.

Privacy settings: yes, good point. We'll default it to private from here on out, then give users the option of changing their default. As of right now you can bulk edit the privacy on all of your resources from your dashboard. One click and you're good.

I definitely understand the hesitation to use it. I've had this conversation with more than a couple people. But I'm confused about the hesitation to use it from people who post on forums? Isn't it the same information just formatted differently? A grow log on a forum typically provides the age of plants, pictures etc. You just take precautions not to post any landmarks, addresses and the like?

I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. A few years ago, I probably wouldn't have made the argument. But as a CA prop 215 compliant grower with a small garden (the average user?) I feel pretty safe with basic precautions. Having stats about avg flower times for my strains, for example, doesn't seem like more of a security risk than being on a forum?

Maybe in a few more years :)

...and I can't stress enough that (imo) a Windows machine on an internet connection is as vulnerable as any website/internet-bound data.
I see your point, you're catering to the percentage of the community that already posts all their info out there for everyone to see. I suppose if that's your only target audience than your model makes sense better to me now.

CA's been legal for 10 years so it's a completely different world, in strict illegal states like Missouri even paraphenelia can land you a year in jail so the general mindset is very different.

I do like the fact that you are providing the community a free service they can use ad-free, so I definately commend you on that! I hope you keep it that way and maybe even consider opening up your source to the community someday :D

Lx :leaf:
 

randomseed

Active Member
Hey Lucifer, thanks for letting me invade your thread for a sec :) and I appreciate the feedback.

Https is available. It defaults to it on the registration and log in pages and then when you log in you have the option of forcing SSL on every request while you're logged in. You can use it even if you aren't logged in just by adding the 's'.

Privacy settings: yes, good point. We'll default it to private from here on out, then give users the option of changing their default. As of right now you can bulk edit the privacy on all of your resources from your dashboard. One click and you're good.

I definitely understand the hesitation to use it. I've had this conversation with more than a couple people. But I'm confused about the hesitation to use it from people who post on forums? Isn't it the same information just formatted differently? A grow log on a forum typically provides the age of plants, pictures etc. You just take precautions not to post any landmarks, addresses and the like?

I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. A few years ago, I probably wouldn't have made the argument. But as a CA prop 215 compliant grower with a small garden (the average user?) I feel pretty safe with basic precautions. Having stats about avg flower times for my strains, for example, doesn't seem like more of a security risk than being on a forum?

Maybe in a few more years :)

...and I can't stress enough that (imo) a Windows machine on an internet connection is as vulnerable as any website/internet-bound data.
Biggest difference is on a forum nothing is fact, in terms of courts its all conjecture and can only be used to show intent, thats why alot of people wont post pics because at that point it becomes proof of activity. With something like a web grow system they could get at your entire growing history and charge you for years and years worth of stuff all at once, far more then youd ever actually get caught with normally.
it should go without saying that the system Im running HighIQ on is isolated from the internet and only visible within the network. Only accepts incomming connections from my IPad actually. its not even the data traveling over the wire that worries me (seriously they dont snoop that hard, it takes too much money) its the fact that it would only take one warrent to get at a persons entire grow lifetime HISTORY. If the servers are in the US you would be forced to comply with the order to match the records to real people otherwise you would face serious federal prison time for (whatever they call getting in the way of an investigation).
Im not trying to burst any bubbles here and I wish it was all on the up and up but alas thats just not the way it is, outside Cali anyways.
Hell I worry about the HighIQ storage enough, encryted or not Im deleting records as soon as they get past harvest.
 
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