Fraud

How is this any different than the ford pinto. These people put out a shitty product that they knew would cause problems for people, but figured that their bottom line was more important...

I don't know if it's illegal, but it seems fairly unethical to me.

You all realize that this is a precursor to give a permanent bail out to wall street...? From Obama..... guess who owns him?

Wake up ppl.....

What? You're not making any sense, dude...

I know the republican talking point has been that the dodd bill will make taxpayer bailouts permanent, even though that's a total lie...but that has nothing to do with goldman sachs bullshitting it's investors.

And how does wall street own obama? The republicans seem to be the ones doing the financial industry's bidding by trying to block debate on the bill. That just failed though....US Republicans allow Senate financial reform debate

They are setting the stage Abe ... this is a part of it. The Dem's need some sort of momentum...they are in hot water right now with the American ppl and their "fiat" governing style is about washed up.

The only question is whether or not GS misrepresented the bundled mortgages as a good investment to unwitting clients.

All the rest of this is bullshit. The Dems are creating a crisis so that they can step in and try to change the ballance of power.

I don't think anything was misrepresented....
ACA had all of the info.... they chose to go for it. Nothing was rigged..... and Paulson NOW looks like a genius....but at the time, he was just another VP.... this is classic hindsight politicking.

Setting the stage, and shifting the blame.... GS took it to Congress didn't they?

Bill Gates was once asked who was his biggest competitor when it came to hiring bright minds. He responded GS. They have a knack for hiring the very brightest ppl in the country. They are MORE than a match for any politician. It was like a comedy show.

You all realize that this is a precursor to give a permanent bail out to wall street...? From Obama..... guess who owns him?

Wake up ppl.....

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The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Division A of Pub.L. 110-343, enacted October 3, 200

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Come on CJ, you are right about it being completely horseshit that they are trumping up these charges against GS, then follow it up with saying it is somehow Obama's fault?

GS did nothing wrong and was completely legal. They do what they have been doing for years and just now got caught because of the financial mess that BARNEY FRANK and CHRIS DODD got us into thru fannie mae and freddie mac giving the people that couldnt afford to own a house and extra 300K to go and buy a house. and what happened they failed to make $$ and pay for that house.
GS will pay a huge fine and will never fail because they have given MILLIONS and BILLIONS to Obama and his band of crooks.
8 years of business school behind this post.

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8 years of business school didn't really help you out with knowing that it wasn't fannie or freddie that caused this, it was the shadow banking industry which if you remember all those commercials from quick loans, quicken loans, ect. Do you not remember all the junk mail for refinaincing you used to get from weird companies you never heard of?

They were the ones that started the mess, it was not people buying under 100k homes in poor neighborhoods (who had to fill out actual paperwork and prove they had enough income to pay it back(not like the no document loans the shadow banks got away with due to loophole mining) that caused this, it was middle income people buying 500k homes in suburbs. Taking out second and third mortgages thinking that they could use it to 'flip' houses and make a killing.

Once the shadow banking industry (who has very little regulation unlike the actual banks (yes they are vastly different)) really started to take off you can see where the other banks were forced to jump on the bandwagon or lose all their investors to the new competition. I believe it was goldman sachs that asked congress to 'save them from themselves' a while back due to the problems this was causing for them due to the fact that all large financial institutions had to react to this to keep their investors.

So they made money off the backs of other people..whats the government doing to day to the people of this country? the exact same fucking thing.
there was a poll out today about 65% of people think there needs to be financial reform in the country...well guess what?, 99% of that 65% dont know shit about economics and can barely balance a checkbook let alone know the dealings on wall street and could do better off just staying in the homes and living their lives and never worry about what happens to make this country run.

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True, but you also missed how much we all benefitted from this boom. The money wall street made from these mortgages is nothing compared to what us americans made. Think not only about all the people that made money flipping homes, but people that took out loans to buy cars, tvs, furniture, all those businesses also boomed, and the people that got hired prospered, and then the people who sold the services like real estate people, landscapers, lowes, road construction to all the new suburban sprawls, on and on, we all benefitted greatly from this boom. The banks were just the only ones that were forced to keep track of their end.

We were just too stupid to use this boom to increase our productivity as a whole. And instead blew it all on tv's and crap we didn't need instead of reinvesting it into our infrastructure and education so that today (25 years later) we would have been able to have a much more educated workforce that would be so much more productive it would be like nothing we have seen yet in our world. But alas people bitch about taxes and government intrusion, when in a boom cycle it is best if we use some of the excess to increase our infrastructure. But it is not going to happen because the republicans are so wrapped up in their failed and by the hip feelgood economic policies to lower taxes at all costs (even in boom cycles) which leaves them with nothing to do to help the economy when the inevitable bad cycle happens (like lower taxes (which Obama has done taxes are the lowest levels for Americans who make under 140k a year than anytime since I believe JFK I will have to double check that later) and increasing government spending (to give a band-aid to failing businesses and stop the blood losses)).

This is a big reason why every republican president since the 60's has had a recession. Because their economic policies are essentially non-existent.

But instead we are dumber, fatter, and slower than we were in the late 80's.

But we are still by far the largest exporter, and poised to get back on track due to the work the government has done. Unemployment is starting to turn, productivity is through the roof (lots of inefficiencies that needed to be dealt with as we all got pretty complacent), and the drive to 'get back into shape' as a country mentally and physically will return and we will continue to be the dominant economy for a long time to come.

I said Obama is OWNED by wall street and the banks...didn't say it was his fault. You are perceiving something I haven't written. A common mistake.

Isn't that a rub though? That wall street and the banks now control the Dem's? The Dodd bill is an atrocious piece of legislation.... it must be put down....like a rabid dog...else it will put the bite on YOU.

You all realize that this is a precursor to give a permanent bail out to wall street...? From Obama.....

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You said FROM Obama. This 'permanent bail out' was not From Obama, it was set up before he was president.

I really doubt you know much about this bill that is reality CJ. And although I agree it will be garbage, it has nothing to do with "Banks controlling the Dems".

The only thing that really needs to be addressed is forcing the shadow banking system to follow the same regulations that the main banks have been forced to abide by and fixing the 'off balance sheet activities' that allows them to set up shell portions of their banks to operate as the shadow banking industries that they were forced (or salavated at the idea of and jumped to set up once they were discovered depending on the bank)to set up to compete with the new industry.

Again, CJ....the permanent bailout myth has been debunked. Even senate republicans aren't using that phrase anymore. Get with the program. Haven't you read today's talking points?

In fact, enough republicans decided that it would be political suicide to oppose this, so it looks like we will be having a debate after all. Get ready CJ. You're going to need to need to make up lots more bullshit to fight this one. Maybe telling the same old lies over and over again will work for this, unlike the healthcare bill.

ViRedd said:

If you guyz didn't watch Glenn Beck last night, too bad for you. Beck is tying all the loose ends together.

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LOL what, the frayed ends of his sanity?

abe23 said:

Again, CJ....the permanent bailout myth has been debunked. Even senate republicans aren't using that phrase anymore. Get with the program. Haven't you read today's talking points?

In fact, enough republicans decided that it would be political suicide to oppose this, so it looks like we will be having a debate after all. Get ready CJ. You're going to need to need to make up lots more bullshit to fight this one. Maybe telling the same old lies over and over again will work for this, unlike the healthcare bill.

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Cj just missed the memo that the official GOP talking points had changed, who knows maybe it gonna be "death panels" or more pertinent to the last few days "drill baby drill"

Since you guys are so intrested, you should watch "Invincible Empire" and then you will know who really runs our country...and the world.

I don't pay attention to any talking points....that's always a fools errand. I merely follow the $$$$$.

Exactly why Obama is a big big fail.

Yes, we know you don't pay attention to the talking points.....you just keep brainlessly repeating them.

Since I don't read or watch anything of a political nature... that's a fail.

I don't even watch tv at all.

It is obvious that you don't follow the $$$$.

That's a bigger fail.

Imagine if Bush tripled his last budget..... you would be howling.

Now... what's the problem? Hypocrite.

I railed against Bush's spending..... I rail against Obama's. That's called having principles. Want to borrow some?

C'Mon people, its not just the banks fault this all happened. It iS Governments fault, they changed the rules and every bank took advantage of the loss of glass/steagel. The SEC just sat and watched them do it, the SEC was bought and paid for to do nothing to the big banks even though they all well knew or should have known what was going on, and the last time I checked the SEC is a government agency. I guess they all get paid a pretty good salary to sit around and watch porn all day instead of dirty back dealing bankers and wall streeters. You can Blame the Fed too, If they were gone and the constitutional money control back in the hands of Congress we would be far far better off. So there you have it, end the Fed and make the government officials be held responsible.

These banks took advantage of "Widows and Orphans" ( their words) while the government regulatory agencies knew full well what was happening.

Thomas Jefferson DID forewarn us......

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be."

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing."

-Thomas Jefferson

Why is it people invent strong opinions on things they know nothing about?

If GS is guilty of all these wrong doings, please explain specifically why this is so.

I am not an expert but it sounds like the purchasers of these debts know exactly what they were purchasing and GS was just selling them what they wanted to buy. They had no obligation to say "I wouldn't by these."

To me, the whole thing looks like another Obama administration dog and pony show. They just did the same thing to Toyota. American car manufacturers have been turning out far far more dangerous cars for decades and not a peep from anyone. Toyota has a couple mior glitches and it's being treated like 9/11.

The Obama administration is on a witch hunt. They hope to draw attention away from the fact that Obama is an abysmal failure.

GS put together a derivative deal for ACA....nothing wrong with that....

All the information was available to ACA .... nothing wrong with that....

ACA DID look the entire deal over (of course) and had full VETO power over the deal ... nothing wrong with that ...

ACA lost ... This is somehow GS's fault? Uhh, no.

ALL GS did was hedge their own long term investments because they RECOGNIZED the financial bubble was going to burst leaving THEM exposed to huge losses .... NOTHING wrong with that.

Yesterday, while the market swooned downward ... GS was UP a buck.


The market has spoken.

I always choose the market over politicians. Nothing wrong with that..... ever.



P.S. Unemployment is STILL at 9+ %

I find it funny that people say it is the governments fault, and use the conclusion because they took away the laws that everyone was trying to undo for decades to allows banks a little more flexibility.

Like somehow because the government was not more in the banks shit somehow forced them to go crazy, and forced us to not have any choice but to take out so much credit that we buckled. I mean how dare they allow us more freedom!


But I agree that the SEC fucked up good by falling asleep on the things they should have been doing.

You can Blame the Fed too, If they were gone and the constitutional money control back in the hands of Congress we would be far far better off.

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This is the worst thing that could possibly happen to our country. You would have a economy fits and starts all rallying around elections. Oh I want to be elected, dump some money into the system so that the economy is in a boom next year, only to have a recession afterward when they are forced to deal with inflation by pulling the money out of the system.

The whole 'bank and government' is evil thing is really historically been proven wrong. There can be bad decisions made, and there can be evil individuals, but the system we have does a really good job at mitigating our collective stupidity. And that is why we are so far ahead of any other countries economy.



At what point will anyone be willing to step out and say that maybe the government actually did a good job to pull this economy around? We were looking at a very deep recession/depression, but with a lot of very good moves we have came back from the brink, GDP has been rising (up another 3% today), unemployment dropping (And CJ it has always been a lagging indicator due to the amount of time it takes businesses to go from about to go under to getting customers back to excess demand and then the money to hire and train people. So it always increases for a while after recessions.), Stock market over 11000, ect.

And if not for Greece/Spain/Italy issues we should pull out of this very quickly with how bad it was getting.

I mean all of the people that said Obama is going to ruin the economy and raise taxes (which in good times is fine, but now would be bad), ect, when are you going to admit you were mistaken?

Taxes are lower than any recent time for a vast majority of americans, and void any euro collapses we will be running fine by the time Obamas re-election is taking place.

Will you be able to say you were wrong?