Flushing N in ROLS?

Dear GentleFolks,

I have been polluting my favorite thread with my obsession on N toxicity. So, I decided to ask my question directly to the RIU Organics Citizen.

Quick summary: For my first try at ROLS, I mixed a bespoke soil with many ingredients. I had one grow with the soil and was happy with my end result. I definitely can improve several factors. On my second grow, I amended the soil, let it sit for a while, and it seems that the plants are "Clawing".

I am fairly confident I do not over water as I stop right before run offs start to show up and do not water before 1.5inch of the top soil feels dry to the touch.
So I believe, I have too much N in my soil.
Somebody suggested I flush my soil with 3x the volume of the pot. I do not feel it is a plausible solution for N toxicity in ROLS.
Any recommendation?

GetTheNoutOfThePotingly yours,
M

1.5 inches of topsoil? means very little. buckets can be soaked at the bottom and dry at the top if they have poor drainage for example.
dont flush anything but your toilet.
stop fingering your plants.
check this out.

notice the container when its full of dry soil?
container volume/4= amount of water you need to add each time the container feels just like it did dry, exactly
four hours before the plant wilts is ideal. anything else is ill advice imo

I've had clawing from too much N myself. Overwatering will make it worse. Just water as needed and the problem will go away in time by itself as the plant becomes larger. It can be that you just needed to wait a bit longer for your mix to cook through; be sure you are waiting a full 30 days from amending before use. In my case the culprit was too much chicken manure so the problem was easy to fix for next time but some strains especially sativa doms are just more sensitive than others. Ride it out it'll be fine that looks minor compared to mine; had a super lemon haze throwing signs like a crip not too long ago and it was fine after a few weeks of normal watering. I second the watering from the bottom thing if that is a possibility for you.

chemphlegm said:

1.5 inches of topsoil? ...

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Dear chemphlegm,
Thank you for your reply. your almost wilting point approach sounds great. A bit on the "50 shades of grey" side of things. Interesting technique to master.
I am wondering, if you let your soil get dry almost to the wilting point, would it not be a pain in the neck to water the soil with 1/4 of its own volume? it will take a long time and a lot of run off. would it not?

WateringCautiously yours,
M

Richard Drysift said:

I've had clawing from too much N myself. ...

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Dear Richard,
I did give the mix a good 30days to cook. not much more than that but at least 30days.
Would you recommend I stop adding SST's, Coco water, WCT? I do not believe either of these amendements will bring N to the mix.
Am I correct in saying that you, dear Sir, are suggesting I sit the pots in a large dish and fill the dish with water instead of pouring it from the top?

NotOnlyWaterly yours,
M

Mazer said:

Dear chemphlegm,
Thank you for your reply. your almost wilting point approach sounds great. A bit on the "50 shades of grey" side of things. Interesting technique to master.
I am wondering, if you let your soil get dry almost to the wilting point, would it not be a pain in the neck to water the soil with 1/4 of its own volume? it will take a long time and a lot of run off. would it not?

M

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nah, you can weigh a dry pot first if you need to, compare the weight, I do it with a kick or nudge of the buckets on the floor. after a few thousand times you'll know exactly when to water. no, I dont wait for the plant to wilt, thats a disclaimer for you is all.
my four gallons of soil need 1 gallon of water added each time. I dont care about run off except what a pain in the ass it is to vacuum up, my goal is to have drops to none during flower/veg. I use five gallon buckets so four gallons of dirt leaves head space for the 1 gallon of water when poured.
nothing worked consistently in my garden until I stopped with forum advice and picked up my first grow bible. after that it all made sense and no issues since

chemphlegm said:

nah, you can weigh a dry ...

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Dear chemphlegm,

Your watering plan sounds great! I am sad to say, it can not be applied to my set up. I run two 2x2 tents. The pots are filling up all the floor space so access to the ones in the back is problematic. Should I have had the space to walk around my plants freely I would have definitely used your "weighting" method. In the next home maybe?
PushingTheWallsly yours,
M

I began same way. I used a push stick to feel the buckets I couldnt reach. today I use my watering wand in the grow building rooms. as I walk freely about the plants, or a toe kick, whatever. be creative, or guess at it right.

Mazer said:

Dear chemphlegm,
Thank you for your reply. your almost wilting point approach sounds great. A bit on the "50 shades of grey" side of things. Interesting technique to master.
I am wondering, if you let your soil get dry almost to the wilting point, would it not be a pain in the neck to water the soil with 1/4 of its own volume? it will take a long time and a lot of run off. would it not?

WateringCautiously yours,
M



Dear Richard,
I did give the mix a good 30days to cook. not much more than that but at least 30days.
Would you recommend I stop adding SST's, Coco water, WCT? I do not believe either of these amendements will bring N to the mix.
Am I correct in saying that you, dear Sir, are suggesting I sit the pots in a large dish and fill the dish with water instead of pouring it from the top?

NotOnlyWaterly yours,
M

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You could water from the bottom if you want but that's not what I'm saying. I am suggesting to water as normal and the problem will likely go away on its own. Teas are probably fine but your mix is active enough as it is.

Here is how you "flush" in Rols:

Stop feeding anything (but water) after calyx clusters start to develop. Its too late for teas emulsions or carbs unless you want their tiny flavor molecules absorbing into the plant.

Harvest after a dark period, while the soil/roots are not feeding the plant.

How you fade/cure the harvest is the only variable to worry about. Score stalks for quicker, more natural drying schedule. Remember Fall is not Spring. Fall is not a season of fertility. It is a season of maturity.

Rols does not fill the plant with nutrients like test tube weed (hydro).. It only takes what it needs for the day then it's back to the roots at night. There's no need to control nitrogen levels by flooding/leeching, the moon cycles and soil temperature fluctuations are the only thing you need to lower nitrogen in the bud (at night)

Just my personal experience, but I've noticed that usually when you start seeing "deficiencies" or "toxicity" in organics it's actually because of the watering and not so much the nutrients themselves.

What nitrogen amendments did you use? If you used Guano or Blood Meal I could see toxicity being a potential issue, but you would noticed toxicity as an issue upon transplant. The fact that you experienced "toxicity" days if not weeks after transplant tells me the issue is in fact with the watering and not an actual toxicity. In fact, leaves curling like that can also be a sign of overwatering and this is a mistake that pretty much every single cannabis grower has made at one point in their growing lives.

I know you're in tents right now, but isn't it possible for you to perhaps pull the plants out? If not, invest in a moisture reader. I just picked one up at my local hardware store for $6, already prevented me from over-watering the first day I bought it. I'm so thrilled to finally have a moisture meter because it's really the only way to be sure. The lift method works for some, the finger method works for others, I'm personally a meter guy and see this working out great for me in the long run.

kratos015 said:

What nitrogen amendments did you use? .

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Dear kratos!
Thank you for your help. I did not use any animal product beside 0.1% of Frass and 10% store bought worm compost. I have about 13% of aged pin bark mulch and the same quantity of peat. I mixed a "LSWH"* soil using what I could easily find. As my pH meter has not been calivbrated for some time now, I have been putting of the pH test. Having just received the calibrating solutions I will do it Monday.

MightItBePHingly yours,
M

*LSWH = Let's See What Happens