Fluence Bioengineering

...2.15 umol/j...I about shit my pants when I saw the new Fluence #'s. Their old system was 1.66 umol/j and that was industry leading at the time.

Context for why this is amazing (just click the pix):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

Thought I'd chime in.
Bleaching relates to the accessory pigment Xanthophyll, not being stimulated enough at high PPFD from their GrowMax spectrum. This leads to radical oxygen molecules not being quenched during photosynthesis (Photosystem I) and converting into hydrogen peroxide (bleach). A sunrise/sunset feature would help with this. It's not proximity or heat.
Some strains so it worse than others, no matter the height. I'd lower your lights and just cut it when trimming.

Basically its just an excuse for BML to sell you another item, Their crappy SoLunar dimmer. Very user unfriendly, loses settings after power outage, blah blah. They are junk.
Most other brands already have a Sunrise/sunset feature which helps with the bleaching. BML makes you purchase more. Terrible customer service. I got a buddy waiting months on older replacement light bars because they are changing the company. Another buddy paid full price for 1200's in November, BML never even told them they were changing the company, selling this new,better light for half price, in a month. They just let them buy old stuff to clean out the warehouse. Awful company.
The design is nice. Basically the only plus. But these days, many others are making comparable LED units.
I have 3 - spydr 1200 that I want to replace with "Full Spectrum" led

I personally am looking into the "Next Light Mega" Higher overall numbers than Spydr, 5x5 canopy coverage, and "Next Light" was actually the first into the full spectrum led game. Their booth was packed at the Seattle Max Yield show last year. I even remember seeing BML name tags listening to the "white light" pitch by nextlight. A year later, Fluence is born with their "new" full spectrum led.

Companies with great reputations, DON'T change their names without telling anyone. They just stole some other tech, changed their name in the hope the past will be forgotten. I am looking to move past this juvenile company.

@Midwest Monster its pretty clear that you are an unsatisfied customer with BML. We could speculate on why BML was undergone a full re-branding with a new product line. It could be any number of reasons. Perhaps the original spydr could not hold up to the rigors of the commercial grow room environment with their plastic connectors, end caps, and questionable thermal management.

or perhaps they realize that an LED grow light company doesn't make money by selling "one offs" to guys like you and me. the money is in selling 500+ units to a greenhouse or commercial grow. I think their new branding sends the message that they are here to support big grows, and engineered for that purpose.

Just playing devil's advocate here, I hope I'm not sounding like I'm trying to defend them too much. But imagine if you had an existing product line that was tested, UL listed, all the extrusion profiles are designed and ready for assembly. Would you turn down orders on the existing product 4 months before the new product was ready? I mean, they did drop the price on the old spydrs last year.
And I've seen the BML warehouse and assembly floor, they don't have hundreds, (or even dozens ) of fixtures sitting on shelves ready to ship. When I was there, they were so backed up, that new orders had to be assembled, tested and packaged, they were pretty backed up.

I hear ya. The problem is that they claim to have told everyone who ordered from them after September about the new product. They said nothing to my friends at all. As for a price drop??? I don't think 2500$ for a spydr 1200 is a price drop. So they paid full price, after the date. If the units were on clearance I may understand. They pawn that old stuff off on the little guy. Most websites promote new product. Fluence hid theirs form the world to clean out the warehouse.

Growmau5 said:

@Midwest Monster its pretty clear that you are an unsatisfied customer with BML. We could speculate on why BML was undergone a full re-branding with a new product line. It could be any number of reasons. Perhaps the original spydr could not hold up to the rigors of the commercial grow room environment with their plastic connectors, end caps, and questionable thermal management.

or perhaps they realize that an LED grow light company doesn't make money by selling "one offs" to guys like you and me. the money is in selling 500+ units to a greenhouse or commercial grow. I think their new branding sends the message that they are here to support big grows, and engineered for that purpose.

Just playing devil's advocate here, I hope I'm not sounding like I'm trying to defend them too much. But imagine if you had an existing product line that was tested, UL listed, all the extrusion profiles are designed and ready for assembly. Would you turn down orders on the existing product 4 months before the new product was ready? I mean, they did drop the price on the old spydrs last year.
And I've seen the BML warehouse and assembly floor, they don't have hundreds, (or even dozens ) of fixtures sitting on shelves ready to ship. When I was there, they were so backed up, that new orders had to be assembled, tested and packaged, they were pretty backed up.

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i talked with the owner at spannabis, it was marketing reasons. when he split up with illumitex he build up a company quickly without thinking much on the company's name. his new marketing departement thought it would be better to rename the company

I paid $1,900 for my spydr 1200. And they did tell me they had new fixtures coming out, but I didn't want yo wait.

J Bleezy said:

I paid $1,900 for my spydr 1200. And they did tell me they had new fixtures coming out, but I didn't want yo wait.

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Lucky you man. Said nothing to my buddy. They really shafted us here in the Midwest. There's an F and a U in fluence and their customer service dept. really takes those letters to heart when dealing with the little guys.
My buddy found the "nextlight mega". Soon to be released, every bit as good as any fluence product, and no salty taste to deal with. The price is comparable as well. Guys there are excited to have our business.

We'll just stay as far from fluence as possible.

The bleaching theory is legit though.

Very interesting, that bleaching theory. I've encountered bleaching with Lumigrow and assumed it was from the blues. Someone here posted a study that showed bleaching was from excess red. What wavelength will stimulate Xanthophyll?

(Xanthophylls (originally phylloxanthins) are yellow pigments that form one of two major divisions of the carotenoid group. Wikipedia) So I'm thinking purple is opposite yellow on the color wheel and violet is 380–450 nm.

Edit for science: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21722416

sanjuan said:

Very interesting, that bleaching theory. I've encountered bleaching with Lumigrow and assumed it was from the blues. Someone here posted a study that showed bleaching was from excess red. What wavelength will stimulate Xanthophyll?

(Xanthophylls (originally phylloxanthins) are yellow pigments that form one of two major divisions of the carotenoid group. Wikipedia) So I'm thinking purple is opposite yellow on the color wheel and violet is 380–450 nm.

Edit for science: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21722416

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9315858

Depends on which one and form, but ~486-510nm.

is bleaching mostly a problem with blurples ?

I always have some warm white light running with various leds (white/red, blurples, cobs) and never get bleaching.

i see a little with blurple but only in super hi ppfd, 1200-1500

PurpleBuz said:

is bleaching mostly a problem with blurples ?

I always have some warm white light running with various leds (white/red, blurples, cobs) and never get bleaching.

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i own some budmaster G.O.D led lights, they use osram led (blurple light). They bleach like hell, even if the light have a distance over 1meter to the canopy. Still hashtips at all tops from the buds, they are snow white. if the bud turn purple the hashtips becomes pink:O.
My cxb3590 dont do that. i wonder what cause this bleaching:/

Someone know the mix they use to achieve their spectrum ?
I can count about 8 CW : 14 WW : 1 660nm on the indoor spectrum
not sure though...
I find the spectrum little bit too blue, but it could be corrected by having the 660 on dimmable ballast and changing the ratio along with the flowering.
cheers

Malocan said:

i own some budmaster G.O.D led lights, they use osram led (blurple light). They bleach like hell, even if the light have a distance over 1meter to the canopy.

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prob the lenses. do you have a light meter?

Hello BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G said:

prob the lenses.

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yeah , i think the same. In 5-6 weeks i will remove the lenses. Then i will see after a new try

BOBBY_G said:

do you have a light meter?

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no , i plan to buy a PAR meter in the future... .

I realize this is an old thread but does anyone have a PAR map for any of the Fluence lamps? Current or otherwise? I've searched in vain, even called the company. They say they don't publish PAR maps (?)

Anybody know of any third-party tests? Shouldn't be this hard to find basic info on the world's greatest grow light.

If you google say SpydrX PPFD, I think you’ll find what you’re looking for. “Par map” is what’s killing your results.

Thanks, that helps. Found one for an old 2017 model: