Flowering with small deficiency?

PeachyBuds

PeachyBuds

Member
Hey all,
I'm planning on moving all my White Widows to 12/12 under an hps to start flowering in just a few days! They're all about 8 weeks old, have been topped once, are about 18" tall, and will be put into 5 gallon buckets full of holes with the same soil blend (50/50 FF Happly Frog and Ecoscraps). But, I'm a little concerned on what may happen. Over the last week, they've started to show what looks like a slight phosphorus deficiency (slight blue hue to top leaves and little patches that look like fungus almost on bottom leaves that then brown and die) and a zinc deficiency (a pattern oriented yellowing on the bottom leaves with browned tips). Neither seem too bad, the plants are growing at a good rate lately, and I've been adding FF Happy Frog 5-8-4 nutrients as well as Earth Juice Micro Blast lately, so they're getting a balanced diet, and high P and Zinc right now, and PH is at about 6.5. I even did a foliar feeding with those same nutes last night, and will do another again today.

Now, I know a healthy plant is vital for producing a good harvest, but considering its a small deficiency, and has (in theory) been fixed now, will it be fine to re-pot and move them to flowering in a few days, or will I be looking at screwing up this harvest if I do that?

Thanks in advance,
-Peach
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Lower your P&K till after 2 weeks of bloom.

I don't have to add about the up potting - I will say you should wait about 10 days after up potting to let the roots spread before flipping....
 
PeachyBuds

PeachyBuds

Member
Dr. Who said:
Lower your P&K till after 2 weeks of bloom.

I don't have to add about the up potting - I will say you should wait about 10 days after up potting to let the roots spread before flipping....
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Thanks to all for the advice. I do have a slight problem, though. I don't have space in my veg area to use any bigger of pots. In fact, the plants themselves are about to max-out their space in there as is (part of why I'm switching them to flowering now) Would I still be okay to repot at the same time I switch to flowering? And really, lower my P & K for now? How come? I mean, obviously I'm not using a normal veg nute, but it seems like I should combat the P deficiency first and foremost, especially since I'm about to start flowering.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
PeachyBuds said:
Thanks to all for the advice. I do have a slight problem, though. I don't have space in my veg area to use any bigger of pots. In fact, the plants themselves are about to max-out their space in there as is (part of why I'm switching them to flowering now) Would I still be okay to repot at the same time I switch to flowering? And really, lower my P & K for now? How come? I mean, obviously I'm not using a normal veg nute, but it seems like I should combat the P deficiency first and foremost, especially since I'm about to start flowering.
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Well, it's because it's not a def of P it's an overage of P.
You have early onset of P tox.....VERY common around here...

An NPK ratio of 3-1-2 is a happy ratio for canna. Any ratio of 3 parts N to 1 part P to 2 parts K is a good place to start and learn from there how to manipulate the amounts of P&K.

Unless you up pot to 3x the size of what you have, it's going to be a race to feed properly to finish well.
I might up my N a bit and try to at least slow the yellowing progression that's on the way for yah.
Even a dbling of pot size will help....

Your 5-8-4 nutrient is whats at the cause.....Best I can call that ratio is 2.5 - 4 - 2 = See what I mean about the high P now!

The plant once you flip it. Takes about 2.5 weeks of stretching as it begins to form the buds. During that time it's N needs are like the veg levels before slowly dropping the N needs and slight increases in P&K needs......The nutrient makers are attempting to get novice growers to buy their products (bloom) by making somewhat false claims of how well their product works with these rather over the top P&K amounts.

I will say that with some years under your belt and trying differing P&K ratio's or giving it (the plant) moderate PK boosting at specific times with specific amounts. You can increase the yield in respectable amounts!

I might suggest that you try a fert powder in the 3-1-2 ratio or maybe DynaGro Foliage pro to get you more familiar with canna and successful results.

Powder hint - Most will have a 3-1-2 ratio of the 24-8-16 value,,,,,reduce feed amount to 1/3 of what they say and start there. it's far easier to add more then to take it away and wish your plant could recover it's true potential.

Understand that?
 
PeachyBuds

PeachyBuds

Member
Dr. Who said:
Well, it's because it's not a def of P it's an overage of P.
You have early onset of P tox.....VERY common around here...

An NPK ratio of 3-1-2 is a happy ratio for canna. Any ratio of 3 parts N to 1 part P to 2 parts K is a good place to start and learn from there how to manipulate the amounts of P&K.

Unless you up pot to 3x the size of what you have, it's going to be a race to feed properly to finish well.
I might up my N a bit and try to at least slow the yellowing progression that's on the way for yah.
Even a dbling of pot size will help....

Your 5-8-4 nutrient is whats at the cause.....Best I can call that ratio is 2.5 - 4 - 2 = See what I mean about the high P now!

The plant once you flip it. Takes about 2.5 weeks of stretching as it begins to form the buds. During that time it's N needs are like the veg levels before slowly dropping the N needs and slight increases in P&K needs......The nutrient makers are attempting to get novice growers to buy their products (bloom) by making somewhat false claims of how well their product works with these rather over the top P&K amounts.

I will say that with some years under your belt and trying differing P&K ratio's or giving it (the plant) moderate PK boosting at specific times with specific amounts. You can increase the yield in respectable amounts!

I might suggest that you try a fert powder in the 3-1-2 ratio or maybe DynaGro Foliage pro to get you more familiar with canna and successful results.

Powder hint - Most will have a 3-1-2 ratio of the 24-8-16 value,,,,,reduce feed amount to 1/3 of what they say and start there. it's far easier to add more then to take it away and wish your plant could recover it's true potential.

Understand that?
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Although I still have a hard time thinking it's a P abundance. Granted, I'm new to this, but it literally got almost no P until about a week ago. I was making my nutrients (coffee grounds, rock phosphorus, and molasses) to what i thought was a 2-1-1 before a week ago when this became an issue. However I learned that he straight rock phosphorus I was using needed to have sulphuric acid added to make it water soluable and work in that tea. So the only P was from whatever there was in the soil. And the signs it showed looked exactly like a deficiency to me. They also hadn't gotten any micro nutrients until about a week ago as well, which would account for the zinc deficiency (I was very slow getting all my supplies lol). Just my opinion, and you may be right...like I said, I'm new, but it just seems very odd that it'd have too much P considering how little it's had over its life. I was planning on going back to somewhere around a 2-1-1 after the issue is fixed until a couple weeks into flower, though.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
PeachyBuds said:
Gotcha. Although I still have a hard time thinking it's a P abundance. Granted, I'm new to this, but it literally got almost no P until about a week ago. I was making my nutrients (coffee grounds, rock phosphorus, and molasses) to what i thought was a 2-1-1 before a week ago when this became an issue. However I learned that he straight rock phosphorus I was using needed to have sulphuric acid added to make it water soluable and work in that tea. So the only P was from whatever there was in the soil. And the signs it showed looked exactly like a deficiency to me. They also hadn't gotten any micro nutrients until about a week ago as well, which would account for the zinc deficiency (I was very slow getting all my supplies lol). Just my opinion, and you may be right...like I said, I'm new, but it just seems very odd that it'd have too much P considering how little it's had over its life. I was planning on going back to somewhere around a 2-1-1 after the issue is fixed until a couple weeks into flower, though.
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(I'm smiling at my desk) That is what seems to be MOST novice growers problem - wrapping their head around the too much P thing!......Trust me, in that small a pot with the things you've done AND simply by looking at it - It's too much P too early!

I do not "see" any micro nutrient def! Micro nut defs can be rather rare and only come out under specific rules. NONE of what you've been doing points to any micro nute def!

Just for general knowledge. The Micro def's I do see from time to time are Sulfur and Iron (Ca and Mg aside). The thing with micro def would be to first look at pH if your feeding a properly balanced nutrition.....If your in soil, you will not get a micro def without a pH problem somewhere in the woodpile.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
If you would like to try a very good soil (synthetic) nutrient.
I would suggest Hesi for soil or Canna Tera.
I my opinion, these are the 2 best synthetic soil nute lines there are.

With the Hesi I would drop the "ROOTS" and use a kelp extract instead at once a week and drop the SuperVit altogether as the Kelp extract will cover both of those...Use as directed otherwise.

Canna - Use as directed.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
Dr Who is correct. Container grows using peat/coco based mediums do no require high doses of P. P does not leach from these mediums like it does in mineralized soils. A 3-1-2 for veg. And a 2-1-3 for flower. Or just 3-1-2 start to finish.
 
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