Flora Series Nutrients Question

BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp said:
Well I document everything, im cloning the same plant so I will use all 4 while I have gro, and when gro is run out ill just use the Bloom and Micro and record my progress see if I notice any change. Certainly what I know about botany, using the gro does make sense if you want to micro manage every phase of the plants life cycle, but will that necessarily mean more veg growth? More node sites? Ill track it and see Im all about going cheaper so If I can eliminate one bottle.

The biggest annoyance is that I am on well water so my starting PH is high, over 7 closer to 8, I can use lemon juice but does the lemon juice have a buffer? That Ph down shit is pricey especially when Im topping off every second day, any advice? I know PH is important, but I did 3 grows about 2 years ago and never used any PH down and the plants where great....
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Malic acid from a brewing store might work well. Also wouldn't hurt to get a deionizer, like a ZeroWater filter. I guess that would be costly too though, having to keep buying filters. In the summers you could make a DIY solar water distiller by filling a kiddie pool and putting a polyethylene sheet over it with a weight in the middle, like a small rock, to make it lower than the sides, and a bucket in the middle of the pool under the place where the rock is. Water will condense on the poly and run down to the center and drop into the bucket.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
It has nothing to do with "personal preference" it's based on the FACT that micro and bloom together contain everything your plant needs to grow healthy all the way to harvest. Just because GH wants to sell you 3 bottles doesn't make it optimal...The fact is using a 1:2 ratio is safer and better for your plants and cheaper. Less chance of over fert and needlessly wasting nutrients that aren't needed.
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Yeah I can see how the Bloom and Mic alone would work, or Grow and Mic alone. What I said about the Lucas formula was based on doing a search and finding that it was made up by some guy on a weed forum. His name wasn't even Lucas. I don't even know where that came from. Obviously anyone can research optimal hydro nute levels and try to replicate them with commercial nute brands. You don't need some stoner telling you how to mix nutes. Maybe the stoner's a jerk.
 
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Malic acid from a brewing store might work well. Also wouldn't hurt to get a deionizer, like a ZeroWater filter. I guess that would be costly too though, having to keep buying filters. In the summers you could make a DIY solar water distiller by filling a kiddie pool and putting a polyethylene sheet over it with a weight in the middle, like a small rock, to make it lower than the sides, and a bucket in the middle of the pool under the place where the rock is. Water will condense on the poly and run down to the center and drop into the bucket.
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Malic acid, yes that should work right? It must have a buffer because wine and beer need the right PH as well. Any reason that wouldst work? Its way cheaper then PH down. Anybody know any reason Malic acid wouldn't work? The condensation idea cant imagine that would produce enough water every day?
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp said:
Malic acid, yes that should work right? It must have a buffer because wine and beer need the right PH as well. Any reason that wouldst work? Its way cheaper then PH down. Anybody know any reason Malic acid wouldn't work? The condensation idea cant imagine that would produce enough water every day?
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I guess you're right, probably only get about a gallon a day. Malic acid does have good buffering capacity. It shouldn't be able to go above 7 for a while. This is just from reading. I don't need to adjust my pH because I deionize and use nutes with buffers in them, like FloraNova or Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect. It's also drain-to-waste medium in pots so it doesn't really have long enough to change much. Test the malic acid out and see if it helps. If not, I guess my suggestion isn't valid after all.
 
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
I guess you're right, probably only get about a gallon a day. Malic acid does have good buffering capacity. It shouldn't be able to go above 7 for a while. This is just from reading. I don't need to adjust my pH because I deionize and use nutes with buffers in them, like FloraNova or Advanced Nutrients pH Perfect. It's also drain-to-waste medium in pots so it doesn't really have long enough to change much. Test the malic acid out and see if it helps. If not, I guess my suggestion isn't valid after all.
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I will try it for sure, I dont see how it could hurt, and if it works for wine and beer why not my system. When you say drain to waste, do you mean the water does not recirculate back into the res? I now have mine drain back into a bucket outsider the grow room, so now my res is outside the grow area and has helped big time with heat issues.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp said:
Well I document everything, im cloning the same plant so I will use all 4 while I have gro, and when gro is run out ill just use the Bloom and Micro and record my progress see if I notice any change. Certainly what I know about botany, using the gro does make sense if you want to micro manage every phase of the plants life cycle, but will that necessarily mean more veg growth? More node sites? Ill track it and see Im all about going cheaper so If I can eliminate one bottle.

The biggest annoyance is that I am on well water so my starting PH is high, over 7 closer to 8, I can use lemon juice but does the lemon juice have a buffer? That Ph down shit is pricey especially when Im topping off every second day, any advice? I know PH is important, but I did 3 grows about 2 years ago and never used any PH down and the plants where great....
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The Lucas formula 1:2 ratio of micro and bloom isn't something new. It's been proven time and time again as a reliable and effective nutrient program for cannabis cultivation. While people seem to be getting hung up on the stupid fact that "it's just one stoners opinion" the fact is its based on science, not just opinion.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
The Lucas formula 1:2 ratio of micro and bloom isn't something new. It's been proven time and time again as a reliable and effective nutrient program for cannabis cultivation. While people seem to be getting hung up on the stupid fact that "it's just one stoners opinion" the fact is its based on science, not just opinion.
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Yeah whatever. I know you were talking to Resinhound but you were obviously referencing me too so I replied. That was just my opinion, which I believe I am entitled to. The 1 Mic 2 Bloom would be 5-10-9 total, or 50-100-90 ppm in a liter of water. It would work I'm sure, though seems a little on the low side.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Apparently the Lucas formula is really about 2 ml per liter of Micro and 4 of Bloom (making a rough conversion of a gallon to 4 liters though it's really 3.78541), so it would be double what I said, 100-200-180 ppm, plus 5% to correct for the rough liter conversion. That's actually pretty much identical to what you get with 2.5 ml per liter of FloraNova 1 part, which would be 100-200-175. So congratulations to Lucas for making the 3 part exactly like the 1 part. I guess I'm using the Lucas formula without even trying, because I use the FloraNova Bloom 4-8-7.

Could just call it the FloraNova formula. What Lucas discovered was that the 3 part was really designed so that Grow + Micro is the same as FloraNova Grow, and Bloom + Micro is the same as FloraNova Bloom. Which is how I originally figured they should be used. They probably just cooked up the all three together thing later. However, with the 3 part and using the Lucas/FloraNova formula you have to use 6 mls of nutes in total (2 Micro and 4 Bloom) whereas you only need to use 2.5 ml of FloraNova. Actually the Lucas formula has a section for FloraNova. It says 8 ml per gallon. He was a little short but close. Would be more like 10.

BTW, there's no reason to use only the Bloom with the Micro. Micro + Grow at 2 ml and 4 ml gives you 18-4-26, Mg-2, Ca-10. There's no way to tell how much sulfur is in it because the Grow lists both magnesium carbonate and sulfate, no way to know how much of each. I'm sure it would be sufficient though. So Lucas screwed up by recommending the same formula for both veg and flower. Obviously, the Bloom is too low on nitrogen for veg and phosphorus is too high. See I told you Lucas was a stoner. I call this veg mix the "Cajun formula". You have to credit me every time you mention it. And every time you use it you have to say "thanks, Bob, you is a genius, son".
 
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Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Apparently the Lucas formula is really about 2 ml per liter of Micro and 4 of Bloom (making a rough conversion of a gallon to 4 liters though it's really 3.78541), so it would be double what I said, 100-200-180 ppm, plus 5% to correct for the rough liter conversion. That's actually pretty much identical to what you get with 2.5 ml per liter of FloraNova 1 part, which would be 100-200-175. So congratulations to Lucas for making the 3 part exactly like the 1 part. I guess I'm using the Lucas formula without even trying, because I use the FloraNova Bloom 4-8-7.

Could just call it the FloraNova formula. What Lucas discovered was that the 3 part was really designed so that Grow + Micro is the same as FloraNova Grow, and Bloom + Micro is the same as FloraNova Bloom. Which is how I originally figured they should be used. They probably just cooked up the all three together thing later. However, with the 3 part and using the Lucas/FloraNova formula you have to use 6 mls of nutes in total (2 Micro and 4 Bloom) whereas you only need to use 2.5 ml of FloraNova. Actually the Lucas formula has a section for FloraNova. It says 8 ml per gallon. He was a little short but close. Would be more like 10.

BTW, there's no reason to use only the Bloom with the Micro. Micro + Grow at 2 ml and 4 ml gives you 18-4-26, Mg-2, Ca-10. There's no way to tell how much sulfur is in it because the Grow lists both magnesium carbonate and sulfate, no way to know how much of each. I'm sure it would be sufficient though. So Lucas screwed up by recommending the same formula for both veg and flower. Obviously, the Bloom is too low on nitrogen for veg and phosphorus is too high. See I told you Lucas was a stoner. I call this veg mix the "Cajun formula". You have to credit me every time you mention it. And every time you use it you have to say "thanks, Bob, you is a genius, son".
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Veg isn't really a challenge now is it....

The point is you don't NEED all 3 bottles. You didn't stumble on anything that hasn't already been noticed. Long time ago.

Pretty sure Lucas formula was before the Flora nova series... Think about that for a minute.
 
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rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Apparently the Lucas formula is really about 2 ml per liter of Micro and 4 of Bloom
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it's 8 mL micro, 16 mL bloom per gallon RO. the target profile that they wanted to hit was 100N-100P-200K-60Mg for Bloom. they determined that this target was "close enough" to a plants requirments for Veg as well which is why you can use if for All phases.

Flora Nova Bloom was based on the Lucas formula, not vice versa. you think it's just a coincidence that 8mL per gallon works out to the Lucas formula? and the recommended dose on the bottle is 7.5mL. hmmm. it's a Festivus Miracle!!!

why dont' you educate yourself a bit: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm before you sound more foolish than you already do.


BobCajun said:
See I told you Lucas was a stoner.
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we all are, genius.
 
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Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
yep. Lucas was developed when there only was the 3 part. way before floranova and floraduo were even thought about.
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Yep the loudmouth genius doesn't even realize that GH decided the formula was good enough to emulate with a new product line... But I guess "it should work".. Lol
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Yep the loudmouth genius doesn't even realize that GH decided the formula was good enough to emulate with a new product line... But I guess "it should work".. Lol
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lol. i did find out that our beloved admin Potroast was actually one of the growers that was involved in the testing of just using the micro and bloom. it wasn't just one guy Lucas as he seems to think.
 
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

Well-Known Member
So that certainly got off track. Anyways, during Veg what if I used only Gro and Micro and during Bloom Micro and Bloom?. I just saved some money finding out that Micro Harwater lowers your PH over night so I can save money on PH DOWN.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
I first tried the lucas formula right when it was posted on overgrow. It was just meh for me, but can be a little simpler for us stoners than using all three parts.
I personally still liked using the grow in my veg recipee. So since I would still have the grow on hand, why not use all 3 in bloom too.
On the old lables of all three bottles, they used to have formulas for all kinds of different plants. And on top of the regular ol' 3/2/1, and 2/2/2, and 1/2/3, they also had a finishing formula. 1part micro, 3part bloom, and 1part micro, 4 part bloom.
This was right on the bottle, way before lucas posted his formula, so it really was't that big of a surprise too me.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Bron-Y-Aur Stomp said:
So that certainly got off track. Anyways, during Veg what if I used only Gro and Micro and during Bloom Micro and Bloom?. I just saved some money finding out that Micro Harwater lowers your PH over night so I can save money on PH DOWN.
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i'm all about simple. dyna gro foliage pro for veg. 3-1-2. it's super cheap and super concentrated.

then switch to Lucas for Bloom.

you can't keep adding micro hardwater to lower pH though. you'll need ph down evnetually
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
it's 8 mL micro, 16 mL bloom per gallon RO. the target profile that they wanted to hit was 100N-100P-200K-60Mg for Bloom. they determined that this target was "close enough" to a plants requirments for Veg as well which is why you can use if for All phases.

Flora Nova Bloom was based on the Lucas formula, not vice versa. you think it's just a coincidence that 8mL per gallon works out to the Lucas formula? and the recommended dose on the bottle is 7.5mL. hmmm. it's a Festivus Miracle!!!

why dont' you educate yourself a bit: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm before you sound more foolish than you already do.


we all are, genius.
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How many liters do you think are in a gallon? I said 2 ml Micro and 4 ml Bloom. You said 8 ml Micro and 16 Bloom. Notice how your figures are 4 times mine, just like a gallon is 4 times a liter, or close enough.

Now where do you think Lucas got his figures for what ratios are best? From a reputable agricultural scientist? Is Mel Frank a scientist? From that page; "8ml GH Micro 16 ml GH Bloom, is my guru pH's baseline bloom formula (pH is a person) derived from the Mel Frank targets, which suggest a 100-100-200-60 goal for NPKMG values in bloom"

So firstly Lucas was following somebody called pH, a name which only an idiot would use, since it's not even a name but a common abbreviation, so how would you know which is being referred to? But regardless, it's just a case of one stoner following another, following another. I don't see any scientists among them.

Some other guy on here, whose name I'm not interested in, said that GH copied Lucas for their FloraNova series. Well, that's a little odd since Lucas only showed up on that forum in 2006 and I recall buying FloraNova years before that. Shows how much THAT stoner knows. I rather doubt that GH bases their nutes on Mel Frank, pH or Lucas, the 3 stoner amigos. Since when has a 100-200-180 fertilizer ever been recommended by scientists for vegetative plant growth? You can say it's 100-100-200 all you want but it's really 100-200-180. Pretty damn easy to calculate.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Here's the difference between stoners and scientists. These are scientists, Mel Frank, pH and Lucas are stoners. Any questions? Weird how there's a "Hoagland solution" which is used by scientists all the time but there's no Mel Frank solution. Not one of these is anywhere CLOSE to what the 3 stoner amigos recommend. Okay, school's out.

 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
There is nothing included in Flora grow that isn't already included in Flora micro and Flora bloom.

Any idiot should be able to see that by simply reading the labels. It's only a matter of concentrations.And really the only relevant question is, is there enough nitrogen.

Thousands of successful grows say yes. Floranova bloom, maxi bloom, gh lucas all the way to harvest. Proven time and time again.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
There is nothing included in Flora grow that isn't already included in Flora micro and Flora bloom.

Any idiot should be able to see that by simply reading the labels. It's only a matter of concentrations.And really the only relevant question is, is there enough nitrogen.

Thousands of successful grows say yes. Floranova bloom, maxi bloom, gh lucas all the way to harvest. Proven time and time again.
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Exactly, a matter of concentrations, which makes all the difference. Grow has more nitrogen than Bloom. In fact, you'd be best off to use all three components as GH charts suggest, because you can't make a good veg solution from either Grow or Bloom, and Micro. Any idiot should be able to see that, as somebody once said. You think having twice as much phosphorus and potassium as nitrogen promotes vegetative growth, huh? Where'd you ever read that? Look how low phosphorus is in that chart I posted. Doesn't look much like twice as much as the nitrogen to me. Looks more like less than a quarter in most of them.
 
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