Flavors n Taste....

MichiganMedGrower said:

Actually the statement I just made shows my attention to the plants needs and not my own imagination.

Only people that don’t understand how plants work respond the way you do.

Believe what you want. Grow how you want. I only stated facts.

I post plants and bud pics all over this site constantly. Do you have some pics to show your results?

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MichiganMedGrower said:

You skipped answering that post above to pretend you got me.

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how do you know just because your plant is green it's at it's max potential? all i'm saying is that sulphur is used to sweeten and ripen plants(believe whatever you want it's common in the ag industry,the real one) and that is why it's in every damn sweetener at the grow stores but you can just buy mag sulphate at the grocery store for like 3 bucks and it lasts years. this whole thread is about things that make plants smell and taste better. Nobody in the world is arguing that a proper grow room enviro and feed makes healthy plants. I'm just sharing knowledge of what is the most likely culprit for lack of taste that isn't involved in curing. I've monocropped the same cut for 2 years straight before I've experimented and kept controls. If you want to live in egoville and act like your grow is 100% peak everytime ( or ever it's basically not possible) you're completely full of shit. I have yet to see you say anything other than properly feeding a plant makes a healthy plant. No shit bro bro! Check up your chemistry if you wanna think sulphur has no involvement in terpene formation go for it. So come on please tell us what processes are involved in terp production and how come no 2 growers test out strains at the exact same levels. I never even said how much I use or how i use it but go on you know everything there is to know about growing. I no I don't and never will know everything that's why I continue learning.

thenotsoesoteric said:

Yes. I only used the espom salt to supplement mag, once plants looked healthy again I stopped using espom salt. I'm not using espom salt now and plants are just as flavorful as ever.

All that plants need is a well balanced fertilizer or properly amended soil. Adding more of something does not mean the plant will use that amount above what a normal fertilizer would supply.

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compared to what though? like I have clones that are 10 years old when I run them it's always similar and usually better than the last time but I can spot minor differences depending on what ferts I use and how I use them.

Squabblerz said:

how do you know just because your plant is green it's at it's max potential? all i'm saying is that sulphur is used to sweeten and ripen plants(believe whatever you want it's common in the ag industry,the real one) and that is why it's in every damn sweetener at the grow stores but you can just buy mag sulphate at the grocery store for like 3 bucks and it lasts years. this whole thread is about things that make plants smell and taste better. Nobody in the world is arguing that a proper grow room enviro and feed makes healthy plants. I'm just sharing knowledge of what is the most likely culprit for lack of taste that isn't involved in curing. I've monocropped the same cut for 2 years straight before I've experimented and kept controls. If you want to live in egoville and act like your grow is 100% peak everytime ( or ever it's basically not possible) you're completely full of shit. I have yet to see you say anything other than properly feeding a plant makes a healthy plant. No shit bro bro! Check up your chemistry if you wanna think sulphur has no involvement in terpene formation go for it. So come on please tell us what processes are involved in terp production and how come no 2 growers test out strains at the exact same levels. I never even said how much I use or how i use it but go on you know everything there is to know about growing. I no I don't and never will know everything that's why I continue learning.

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Not that sulfer is directly responsible for terpene production or trich production at all it is needed of course and it is in my well water, potting mix and fertilizer.

When I add what you suggest. (I also tried sweet raw) I just get stress from excess after only a mild dose or two.

And I never said anything about perfect grows. You just make up shit to say. I said I recently learned my larger plants do better on less fertilizer. So like I said I am continually striving to do better.

MichiganMedGrower said:

Not that sulfer is directly responsible for terpene production or trich production at all it is needed of course and it is in my well water, potting mix and fertilizer.

When I add what you suggest. (I also tried sweet raw) I just get stress from excess after only a mild dose or two.

And I never said anything about perfect grows. You just make up shit to say. I said I recently learned my larger plants do better on less fertilizer. So like I said I am continually striving to do better.

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How many plants have you used magsulphate on to sweeten? How much did you use and when did you use it? please tell us what makes plants get peak smell I'd like to know your theory. I don't care that you don't use it I know from my room it definitely works and is part of my process.

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extens...oils-and-plant-nutrients#section_heading_7242

Squabblerz said:

I just save my pee up and use that!

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nitrogen city

Squabblerz said:

View attachment 4069802
https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extens...oils-and-plant-nutrients#section_heading_7242

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Like I said. Tomatoes or some vegetables like in your link use more for production. We grow flowers. They use different ratios to reach potential.

You want to prove what you say. Show proof. My buds are extremely frosty, pungeont and flavorful.


I must have a good balance of nutrients without adding unnecessary stuff. I agree that the nutes need to be complete.

Black Widow x Blue Lemon Thai from seed.

you gonna tell me that terpenes in flowers are different than terpenes in vegetables. ok buddy. you obviously have high amounts of all nutrients in that bud. and you still won't tell us what makes flavorful plants. when you say that fruit terpenes aren't the same as flower terpenes then I know you just make things up whatever it works for you. you will not say what can increase smell only some vague ass shit like plants require different ratios which again is obvious. or just tell us what you dosed those plants with to turn every hair orange at the same time. kinda odd that every hair is at the same maturity... on a thai too. only time all my hairs changed while the trichs weren't ready was from over feed.

Squabblerz said:

you gonna tell me that terpenes in flowers are different than terpenes in vegetables. ok buddy. you obviously have high amounts of all nutrients in that bud. and you still won't tell us what makes flavorful plants. when you say that fruit terpenes aren't the same as flower terpenes then I know you just make things up whatever it works for you. you will not say what can increase smell only some vague ass shit like plants require different ratios which again is obvious. or just tell us what you dosed those plants with to turn every hair orange at the same time. kinda odd that every hair is at the same maturity... on a thai too. only time all my hairs changed while the trichs weren't ready was from over feed.

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Excellent genetics. Contact CH9 Seeds. And PK products can screw up ripening and quality.

And I only use ocean forest, well water and pure Blend Pro Grow when the soil is depleted of nutrients about week 2 of 12/12. Nothing else added.

You don’t get it. You are still only holding on to your own opinion and not listening to what I am saying. I didn’t mean to argue. I am here to share and learn. Growing has saved my life and Mrs. MMG’s actual life. Her internal cysts are almost all gone. She suffered her whole life from them.

Every different kind of cultivar prefers a certain ratio of nutrients. If you want to grow tomatoes there is a ton of different specific fertilizers. They all have basically the same ingredients and ratios. Usually high in calcium to prevent end rot. Tomatoes use more of everything than marijuana but especially more calcium. At lower concentrations tomato ratios are pretty good for pot. And pot uses a lot of calcium compared to other nutrients too.

They sell pk boost as a standard for our plant. But the plant doesn’t use a lot of phosphorus. It actually uses more calcium. Phosphorous is easily washed from soil outdoors so it needs supplementation in gardens. The myth we need it added indoors in hydroponic style Grows is only to sell fertilizer for the companies. The plant doesn’t need it to flower. Only the amount it needs. More does not make it work better so to speak. Although the nute sellers would like us to believe it.

There is an interview about nutrients and pot with leaf tests to show what the plants really assimilated in each stage of growth.

It is the president of Dyna Grow. He also admits he produced the bloom nutes due to customer demand rather than plant needs. He says foliage pro and protect (in a hydro environment) are all the plant uses or needs.

Environment - grower - genetics. That’s the way to better tasting, smelling and more potent flowers. Environment includes a balanced nutrient profile. Nothing needed past what is needed. If an additive helps it is because something is missing or something is preventing proper uptake.

Here is the interview. It is well worth any cannabis Growers time to listen. Only facts are presented. And Dyna Grow is testing to produce a fertilizer for us now. Until then the 3-1-2 ratio of foliage pro is closest they have.

I like 3-2-4 with micro nutrients and 100-150ppm well water or tap for potting soil like ocean forest. I preferred 3-1-2 in pro mix as it offers little nitrogen.





I know what is in my well water, potting mix and nutes. They all interact. They are (mostly) in balance. I get calcium issues from time to time. And it’s hard to know when to switch to fertilizer in the amended organic base. I water only through veg and don’t know the strain or pheno from seed so I err on the side of light feeding.

I hope this helps.

Here is a good read on essential oil production in plants. http://www.hortorumcultus.actapol.net/pub/12_5_3.pdf

Ethylene initiates a plants ripening. I have never seen any evidence sulfur does. It has been shown to improve oil production though. Not more oil, just a broader profiled oil.

Squabblerz said:

compared to what though? like I have clones that are 10 years old when I run them it's always similar and usually better than the last time but I can spot minor differences depending on what ferts I use and how I use them.

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Well compare to the same cuts I harvested following my DWC harvest.

thenotsoesoteric said:

... but if there is an actual scholarly article then I'd like to check that out.

I mean if you're going to reference it then you should be able to cite it properly.

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MichiganMedGrower said:

Good point. I have asked Dr. Who to provide this many times. I’m a pretty good researcher. There is no info showing this made up crap out there.

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I don’t believe that there are any articles that explicitly state that creatine monophosphate and/or L-Tyrosine supplementation will increase unit response within a “motor pool”, but because I understand the science behind it all, I know it for fact.

There is “new science” just released last year regarding “rest period and testosterone dip” that I knew 20 years ago. “Fit Mags” and “science” have completely contradicted this for decades. “Whoops”.

Just because someone doesn’t have the financial backing, degree/reputation, and/or time to complete “peer reviewed” science, does not mean that the “science isn’t there”.

Fuck, 99% of my Grow is based on “what I know” VS “what I can find on the Internet”. Shit, half of those “peer reviewed” are “disproved”, “countered”, “contradicted”, proven subjective, etc. Why? “Results” to justify funding (if not just complete ignorance). Most of those tools are as sharp as that Dr. or Attorney in “Idiocracy”.





And we need an articulate President, such as Mountain Dew Camacho.





Anyhow, the vast majority that read over peer reviewed wouldn’t know how to interpret/navigate/extrapolate/incorporate. More often than not (in regards to “internet researchers”), it’s misinterpreted, and abused. MMG is well aware of a certain cult leaders “abuse and misuse” of the available “science”.

Odin* said:

I don’t believe that there are any articles that explicitly state that creatine monophosphate and/or L-Tyrosine supplementation will increase unit response within a “motor pool”, but because I understand the science behind it all, I know it for fact.

There is “new science” just released last year regarding “rest period and testosterone dip” that I knew 20 years ago. “Fit Mags” and “science” have completely contradicted this for decades. “Whoops”.

Just because someone doesn’t have the financial backing, degree/reputation, and/or time to complete “peer reviewed” science, does not mean that the “science isn’t there”.

Fuck, 99% of my Grow is based on “what I know” VS “what I can find on the Internet”. Shit, half of those “peer reviewed” are “disproved”, “countered”, “contradicted”, proven subjective, etc. Why? “Results” to justify funding (if not just complete ignorance). Most of those tools are as sharp as that Dr. or Attorney in “Idiocracy”.

And we need an articulate President, such as Mountain Dew Camacho.

Anyhow, the vast majority that read over peer reviewed wouldn’t know how to interpret/navigate/extrapolate/incorporate. More often than not (in regards to “internet researchers”), it’s misinterpreted, and abused. MMG is well aware of a certain cult leaders “abuse and misuse” of the available “science”.

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Eh. I will take the science published over a single persons observations every time.

Just because I only asked for one link to proof doesn’t mean I think 1 study is necessarily enough.

As soon as a grower can not answer intelligently and simply says “try it yourself” you know they don’t really know.

And you saying you “know the science behind it all” you know it for a fact is the same bullshit I am arguing.

Offer some science then instead of a mis direction to politics.

Stink Bug said:

Here is a good read on essential oil production in plants. http://www.hortorumcultus.actapol.net/pub/12_5_3.pdf

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Good article!

It says in the first paragraph and in the conclusion that a balanced mineral ratio and bio for the specific plant is necessary.

And in time they will have the proper ratio for our plant specifically. But the article shows that different elements will affect different plants well, differently and that when one parameter is boosted it can change the chemical composition of the oils. But not without changing other chemical composition.

So suggesting boosting a certain or set of specific nutrients with the thought it will boost flavor or potency or whatever is like pissing in the dark.

I still feel that a balance of minerals and organics is the best path to help our plant reach its potential. This article supports that.

And likely why weed tends to be better from Growers that don’t pretend to know “ this nutrient makes more terps” “that nutrient makes more thc” tend to grow better flowers.

When we have a proper specific fertilizer we will all be using that ratio. Until then.......

MichiganMedGrower said:

Eh. I will take the science published over a single persons observations every time.


Just because I only asked for one link to proof doesn’t mean I think 1 study is necessarily enough.


As soon as a grower can not answer intelligently and simply says “try it yourself” you know they don’t really know.


And you saying you “know the science behind it all” you know it for a fact is the same bullshit I am arguing.


Offer some science then instead of a mis direction to politics.

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Sure. This should be ample;



Light-dependent regulation of carotenoid biosynthesis in plants

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-16202009000200001



Plus this;


Biosynthesis of plant pigments

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...me&s=1f0451188d4799c496eddec4ebe04d8658cfa866




If you read them, Light and Ph alter metabolism/needs/expression. We know that our plants nutritional needs change between flower and bloom. Yes? We also know that the nutritional needs change during various stages of bloom. Yes? If you were to ask me, I would also say that it changes by vegetative stage/maturity. Does manipulation of the plants metabolic pathways have to be complicated, requiring alterations to the environment (light insensity/spectrum, medium Ph/solution Ph, Humidity, ambient temp, leaf temp, VPD, barometric pressure, CO2 levels, etc)? Yes, it can be. Can it be as easy as altering nutrition based on a given strains “schedule” to enhance it’s predisposition to a particular profile? Yes, it can be.


Regarding creatine monophosphate/L-Tyrosine and motor units/pools and “rest period BAB test dip”, it would take way to many “articles” to get us “there”. I would further explain, but no one will hear me because I’m “just another guy that doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground spewing bs on the interwebs”. This was implied by your “misdirection” comment.

Odin* said:

Sure. This should be ample;



Light-dependent regulation of carotenoid biosynthesis in plants

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-16202009000200001



Plus this;


Biosynthesis of plant pigments

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...me&s=1f0451188d4799c496eddec4ebe04d8658cfa866




If you read them, Light and Ph alter metabolism/needs/expression. We know that our plants nutritional needs change between flower and bloom. Yes? We also know that the nutritional needs change during various stages of bloom. Yes? If you were to ask me, I would also say that it changes by vegetative stage/maturity. Does manipulation of the plants metabolic pathways have to be complicated, requiring alterations to the environment (light insensity/spectrum, medium Ph/solution Ph, Humidity, ambient temp, leaf temp, VPD, barometric pressure, CO2 levels, etc)? Yes, it can be. Can it be as easy as altering nutrition based on a given strains “schedule” to enhance it’s predisposition to a particular profile? Yes, it can be.


Regarding creatine monophosphate/L-Tyrosine and motor units/pools and “rest period BAB test dip”, it would take way to many “articles” to get us “there”. I would further explain, but no one will hear me because I’m “just another guy that doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground spewing bs on the interwebs”. This was implied by your “misdirection” comment.

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Well you did divert to politics but I appreciate the info. Thank you. I have been studying for quite some time now and will read what you have provided later. Still gardening now.

I never meant to suggest you don’t know your shit. We are mostly on the same page. And I look to your informative posts for direction. I am only trying to learn.

I do disagree (from the same information) that the path to better results is manipulation of all these parameters. We obviously need to so we can determine the processes.

Instead I feel that we will learn to provide the proper environment and nutrients in the right ratios and even the proper active biology for best amino acid production and such. And not just do things that work for other crops pretending it works for ours.

The plant changes processes through the cycles but the nutrient profile used and stored does not change much at all.

Just like the natural soil the best plants grow geographically. It doesn’t change composition regardless of the huge amazing plants growing in it that change so much throughout their life cycle. The right elements are available to them in full.

Odin* said:

I don’t believe that there are any articles that explicitly state that creatine monophosphate and/or L-Tyrosine supplementation will increase unit response within a “motor pool”, but because I understand the science behind it all, I know it for fact.

There is “new science” just released last year regarding “rest period and testosterone dip” that I knew 20 years ago. “Fit Mags” and “science” have completely contradicted this for decades. “Whoops”.

Just because someone doesn’t have the financial backing, degree/reputation, and/or time to complete “peer reviewed” science, does not mean that the “science isn’t there”.

Fuck, 99% of my Grow is based on “what I know” VS “what I can find on the Internet”. Shit, half of those “peer reviewed” are “disproved”, “countered”, “contradicted”, proven subjective, etc. Why? “Results” to justify funding (if not just complete ignorance). Most of those tools are as sharp as that Dr. or Attorney in “Idiocracy”.

And we need an articulate President, such as Mountain Dew Camacho.

Anyhow, the vast majority that read over peer reviewed wouldn’t know how to interpret/navigate/extrapolate/incorporate. More often than not (in regards to “internet researchers”), it’s misinterpreted, and abused. MMG is well aware of a certain cult leaders “abuse and misuse” of the available “science”.

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Dude I think a lot of people knew about rest period being non beneficial for strength building. And if you think people that read and write peer review journals are comparable to characters from a Idiocracy then I really don't know where to go from there. Good day, I reckon.

thenotsoesoteric said:

Dude I think a lot of people knew about rest period being non beneficial for strength building.

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? Long rest periods ARE beneficial to strength training and/or muscle development (power lifting/body building). Quick “thanks” for helping prove that point (about the “misinformed masses”). For some time now (maybe 20 years, longer) “science” and mags were all about short rest periods between sets (average of a minute). Years into the “short rest period craze”, a study discovered a testosterone dip after 1 hour of “short rest” training, so it was recommended to quit training after 1 hour to avoid this drop in test. Just recently, a study shows that greater gains (strength and hypertrophy) come from longer rest between sets (2-3.5 minutes), and that “longer rest training” is not subject to the “1 hour testosterone drop”. I have always rested 2-3.5 minutes (2 for lighter sets, 3-4 between heavy sets) and lifted longer than an hour (usually around 2 hours, as long as 3). Right now I lift for about 90 minutes, not as young as I once was (not “old” yet either).

thenotsoesoteric said:

And if you think people that read and write peer review journals are comparable to characters from a Idiocracy then I really don't know where to go from there. Good day, I reckon.

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I was exaggerating for effect, I read “peer reviewed”. Not out to insult myself, or anyone “reading” (for that matter). I did say this;

Anyhow, the vast majority that read over peer reviewed wouldn’t know how to interpret/navigate/extrapolate/incorporate. More often than not (in regards to “internet researchers”), it’s misinterpreted, and abused.

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There are more casual “internet researchers” glancing over peer reviewed, than there are “peers”. I don’t think that you can argue against that one. This lends to some of the “bro science” we see shared on the boards. One member, in particular, is notorious for his “misuse and abuse” of the available “science”. @MichiganMedGrower knows who I am referring to.

Regarding the “authors”, again, exaggerating for effect, but that isn’t to say that many misinterpret results (their own, or those of “peers”), which steers “science”/readers in the wrong direction. If “science” was always on point, rather than “spinning wheels”, we would have far less contradiction. At times, frustrating.

@Odin*

I was taught in the gym in my youth in the 70’s to wait more than 2 minutes between sets.

I think it is instructed that way in the book “Pumping Iron”.

And now that we are talking weight lifting I think I will put my plants on a good program. More muscular branches is the goal.

3 sets of 10 to a bigger yield!