Fixing root rot: Hydroguard v Southern Ag Garden Friendly Fungicide

macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
R.Raider said:
Thx bro, I appreciate that.

Been a while since dropping an update here and the truth is that I am STIll battling issues and still learning.

Things I've learnt since my last post here are that I'm dealing with Fusarium, not Pythium(had a plant lab tested). I'm guessing this why none of the bio-fungicides worked for me because once you have Fusarium their is NO cure.

I've also learned that once your plant is showing signs of infection(root rot and etc) from Fusarium your plant is already massively infected. I use to think when i first was starting to see signs of root rot that this was the beginning stages of infection. That is not the case though. Fusarium is systemic and by the time you actually see signs of infection your plant has actually already been infected for quite sometime already.

There also seems to be some discrepancies out there on whether or not it's ok to take clones off of infected plants. And when it comes to Fusarium the answer to that is a solid NO. Even if the plant and cuttings look healthy it will for sure catch up to you eventually. Tossing out all your mothers and starting all over is a hard thing to do but is absolutely 100% necessary.

My advice to anyone who is having root rot problems but knows for sure they have all their shit in check(temps, DO, light leaks and etc) would be to get one of your plants lab tested and find out EXACTLY what pathogen your dealing with. Even though different pathogens might have similar symptoms, treating them may not be the same. Some pathogens are curable and others are not. Finding out exactly what pathogen you have can save you a lot of time and money *cough cough* lol.
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Dude you sound like an afficionado on root rot. It has definitely furthered your knowledge. And when it comes down to it, my favorite thing about growing is learning new stuff.
 
J

Jrmy_1

Active Member
Great read, thanks for all the information.

Do you know where the fusarium (sp?) was coming from? Guessing it came from water and maybe made it through RO filter and continued breeding in pressure tank?

Did you find any way to kill/control it like UV or ozone?
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
Jrmy_1 said:
Great read, thanks for all the information.

Do you know where the fusarium (sp?) was coming from? Guessing it came from water and maybe made it through RO filter and continued breeding in pressure tank?

Did you find any way to kill/control it like UV or ozone?
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It usually breeds right in your system. Ozone tears up your equipment, uv probably not good for roots.
 
R.Raider

R.Raider

Well-Known Member
Jrmy_1 said:
Great read, thanks for all the information.

Do you know where the fusarium (sp?) was coming from? Guessing it came from water and maybe made it through RO filter and continued breeding in pressure tank?

Did you find any way to kill/control it like UV or ozone?
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Unfortunately I never did find out the source of the Fusarium. I had the water lab tested, both from tap and after r/o but both came back negative for Fusarium. I am using UV after my r/o these days to be safe but the lab guy insists that the water wasn't the source. Had some air quality tests done as well(2 in the shop where I'm growing and 1 outside of it) but those came back negative for Fusarium also. At this point I've just accepted that I'll never know where that monster came from.

On a more positive note, so far it's been a Fusarium free 2020. I'm hoping I finally have that beast behind me now. Only time will tell i guess.

Happy Easter everybody!!
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
R.Raider said:
Unfortunately I never did find out the source of the Fusarium. I had the water lab tested, both from tap and after r/o but both came back negative for Fusarium. I am using UV after my r/o these days to be safe but the lab guy insists that the water wasn't the source. Had some air quality tests done as well(2 in the shop where I'm growing and 1 outside of it) but those came back negative for Fusarium also. At this point I've just accepted that I'll never know where that monster came from.

On a more positive note, so far it's been a Fusarium free 2020. I'm hoping I finally have that beast behind me now. Only time will tell i guess.

Happy Easter everybody!!
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I've seen people get it just from going too long on a water change. Like poof, bad bacteria starts breeding. That's why I like my bennies, they keep it at bay. You can smell when most kinds of bacterium starts taking over a res. Like a stagnant funk lol.
 
K

KogaOchiyo

Member
Is using too much Southern AG GFF or Hydroguard bad?

I put in 10x my usual Southern AG GFF dose into my reservoir and noticed the next day clear/gel like slime building up on my airstone.
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
KogaOchiyo said:
Is using too much Southern AG GFF or Hydroguard bad?

I put in 10x my usual Southern AG GFF dose into my reservoir and noticed the next day clear/gel like slime building up on my airstone.
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Ya that's dead bacteria build up. Hydrogaurd is much more effect than SA, just fyi. It's actually not made for this application is what it really comes down too. Lol 10× the dosage is more like 100× more bacteria added than if you used hydrogaurd and follow the directions. It's worth the extra 20 to do it right with the right product.
 
K

KogaOchiyo

Member
macsnax said:
Hydrogaurd is much more effect than SA, just fyi. It's actually not made for this application is what it really comes down too. Lol 10× the dosage is more like 100× more bacteria added than if you used hydrogaurd and follow the directions. It's worth the extra 20 to do it right with the right product.
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Are you saying SAG GFF is not effective?

Seems many people have perfect success with it. I just need to not use 10x my usual amount which is already plenty more than Hydroguard recommended dosage. After reading the entire 27pg thread and elsewhere seems using too much SAG GFF will cause buildup of slime.
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
KogaOchiyo said:
Are you saying SAG GFF is not effective?

Seems many people have perfect success with it. I just need to not use 10x my usual amount which is already plenty more than Hydroguard recommended dosage. After reading the entire 27pg thread and elsewhere seems using too much SAG GFF will cause buildup of slime.
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Ya been down they road. Once you guys get tired of the dead bacteria/slime issues, you'll be looking to hydrogaurd lol. Also SAG is only effective for a couple days, so you're constantly re-dosing. Adding to the dead bacteria buildup.
 
K

KogaOchiyo

Member
macsnax said:
Also SAG is only effective for a couple days
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Is this just your own experience or there more studies or tests to confirm it's effectiveness? If there are I would love to read/view them.

With regular diluted dosage I didn't have any buildup. Only the buckets I tried adding more than usual amount developed it. I'm not so sure the slime is actual dead bacteria. Seems to be biofilm dense colony sticking together because there are so many of them. But, I guess eventually they will die off turning clear gel like to brownish color.

Hydroguard uses a propriety bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain, but I think they don't have biofilm buildup because it is so heavily diluted that it is very difficult to put too much in. Probably why it's shelf life is only 6mo after opening. Not a scientist or anything, just a hypothesis.
 
thenasty1

thenasty1

Well-Known Member
ime, at proper dosage (i run .2 ml/gal), gff is just as effective (if not moreso) as any other bacillus product. i havent noticed any unusual buildup in any of my systems. it definitely will cause buildup if its overused though
all bennies need to be reapplied regularly in hydro. same with h2o2 or pool shock
nothing wrong with hydroguard. it works, i used it for a long time. gff just makes more sense when you have a shit ton of water to treat (or dont feel like paying the green tax)
 
M

Munchling

Active Member
macsnax said:
Ya been down they road. Once you guys get tired of the dead bacteria/slime issues, you'll be looking to hydrogaurd lol. Also SAG is only effective for a couple days, so you're constantly re-dosing. Adding to the dead bacteria buildup.
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This. If you want 100x cheaper hydroguard version go with:
API Pond Care - Pond-Zyme Sludge Destroyer. Small package is like 15-17 EUR/USD and treats 30 000 liters. It does the job like the SAG, however the res is full of slime, hence i need to clean my pumps 2x weekly. I am lazy and prefer the more simple solution. After using API for many years I moved to hydroguard.
 
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Buddernugs

Buddernugs

Well-Known Member
Ran into root rot 4 times....all 4 times 3%h2o2 soak for 3 hrs cured it in one dose and they started eating again mix 1 part 34-35%h2o2 and 11 parts water and soak your roots for 3 hrs then rinse the hell out of them and feed Norman feed dose...as long as you don’t mess up the dose and your plants are onlder than 6 weeks from seed they will be fine...keep your water temp below 73f or it will come back
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
Munchling said:
This. If you want 100x cheaper hydroguard version go with:
API Pond Care - Pond-Zyme Sludge Destroyer. Small package is like 15-17 EUR/USD and treats 30 000 liters. It does the job like the SAG, however the res is full of slime, hence i need to clean my pumps 2x weekly. I am lazy and prefer the more simple solution. After using API for many years I moved to hydroguard.
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I used southern ag for a good year plus and did the same, went back to hydrogaurd. The buildup in the res is a pain, I'm ok with paying the extra 20. That's the issue with these other bacterias that can do the job, they're in such a high concentration that they gunk everything up.
 
K

KogaOchiyo

Member
macsnax said:
I used southern ag for a good year plus and did the same, went back to hydrogaurd. The buildup in the res is a pain, I'm ok with paying the extra 20. That's the issue with these other bacterias that can do the job, they're in such a high concentration that they gunk everything up.
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  • Hydroguard: 2mL/gal or 20,000 Cfu per gallon (amount on packaging)
  • Southern AG GFF: 1mL/20gal or 500,000,000 Cfu per gallon (amount people post using)
I had lots of gunk built up too. The solution is to use less SAG GFF because it is way way way more concentrated than Hydroguard. After I cut down my dosage amount the build up went away.
 
macsnax

macsnax

Well-Known Member
KogaOchiyo said:
  • Hydroguard: 2mL/gal or 20,000 Cfu per gallon (amount on packaging)
  • Southern AG GFF: 1mL/20gal or 500,000,000 Cfu per gallon (amount people post using)
I had lots of gunk built up too. The solution is to use less SAG GFF because it is way way way more concentrated than Hydroguard. After I cut down my dosage amount the build up went away.
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Ya this topic had gone on in a lot of threads and still facts are facts. SAG is an inferior product to keep your res healthy. Just because it has so much more live bacteria didn't make it better. It's not even the same strain of bacteria either. It's actually counter intuitive.
 
P

pdasterly

Active Member
macsnax said:
Ya this topic had gone on in a lot of threads and still facts are facts. SAG is an inferior product to keep your res healthy. Just because it has so much more live bacteria didn't make it better. It's not even the same strain of bacteria either. It's actually counter intuitive.
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im in same boat, trying out different products to lower my cost. sag isnt it, if anything i spike the hydroguard with it but standalone, it isnt a working replacement. The most potent combo for me is hydroguard/liquid orca. Picked up some powdered versions this run https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/mycorrhizae-and-trichoderma/
 
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