First time grow question: CFL & LED setup

H

hidelittleman

Member
Hi guys,

Been browsing the forums the past couple of days to get some ideas about possible grow setup. Looking at growing 1 main plant with another second plant starting halfway through the first cycle (LST on both).

Now as im only growing 2 plants max at any one time, i was thinking about getting the following 2 lights and use them together.

150W CFL:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/150w-DUAL-SPEC-RED-BLUE-CFL-GROW-LIGHT-KIT-HYDROPONICS-/260672146110?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item3cb1454abe

and either a 168 LED Grow light:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Hydroponics-Plant-Grow-Light-bulb-168-LED-/310292703678?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item483ee2e9be

or a LED panel:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/225-LED-Hydroponic-Lamp-Plant-Grow-Light-Free-Post-UK-/250723735424?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PlantsSeedsBulbs_JN&hash=item3a604c9780

I have been told that i want to aim for about 14,000Lumens. The CFL outputs 9000, but sadly the LED lights dont state their output.

Now my questions are:
- Will the CFL suffice for what im aiming to grow?
- Are either of those LED light/panels any good, as ive heard mixed things? Was looking to them to be a supplementary light to the CFL.
- What will the heat be like of this setup?
- How much of a smell would be produced?

Im looking at covering the enclosure in either Mylar, or C3 Sheeting

Thanks for any help on this, and i apologise if i have posted this in the wrong forum.
 
ExDex1x1

ExDex1x1

Active Member
1. All of your links come up with no item.
2. LEDs suck on their own, with CFLs they're alright at best. You'd probably be better off just buying CFLs with different color temps for veg/flower respectively.
3. Yes CFLs will do the job for 1-2 plants, your yield is going to be fairly low, you're probably better off growing a bunch of really small plants instead of aiming for 1-2 large ones.
4. Yes. Pot smells. Always. You want a carbon filter to get rid of the odor
5. Heat will be minimal, you shouldn't need much more than a couple small fans to maintain normal temps.
6. Go with Mylar. It's the shit.
 
Grumpy Old Dreamer

Grumpy Old Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Have a look at the "ramblings" link in my sig.

You will get an idea what I do with small spaces and LEDs, my flower area is about 2 foot x 4 foot and I run 2 Kessil Magenta lights.

I have just started really and can definitely produce more than I can smoke.


[youtube]cGxPOZ7ncic[/youtube]
 
H

hidelittleman

Member
Sorry about that; i have now fixed the links :)

Thought LEDs might be more at the gimmick phase atm where growing is concerned.
I was thinking about a carbon filter, that shouldnt be a massive issue. Lights and the amount of heat is where im worried to try and not get busted, which was why i was looking at C3 over the mylar.
Im looking for a small rotating fan i can put in there to simulate wind, but have yet to find one.

The issue i have with growing several plants is the lack of space i have. Have a 75cmx75cmx75cm for early stages, then the same area but 1.4m height instead, if need be for last stages. That said, im hoping LST will be i can keep the plants more like bushes, so i can utilise the space i have as much as possible.
 
I

Illumination

New Member
hidelittleman said:
Sorry about that; i have now fixed the links :)

Thought LEDs might be more at the gimmick phase atm where growing is concerned.
I was thinking about a carbon filter, that shouldnt be a massive issue. Lights and the amount of heat is where im worried to try and not get busted, which was why i was looking at C3 over the mylar.
Im looking for a small rotating fan i can put in there to simulate wind, but have yet to find one.

The issue i have with growing several plants is the lack of space i have. Have a 75cmx75cmx75cm for early stages, then the same area but 1.4m height instead, if need be for last stages. That said, im hoping LST will be i can keep the plants more like bushes, so i can utilise the space i have as much as possible.
Click to expand...

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTGSupply-400-watt-High-Pressure-Sodium-Grow-Light.asp

https://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM400S51-HOR-4K-ALTO.aspx

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cmhfact3.htm

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215

Best spectrum with real penetration available...easier to cool than the cfls were...really

Hope it helps

Namaste'
 
ExDex1x1

ExDex1x1

Active Member
hidelittleman said:
Sorry about that; i have now fixed the links :)

Thought LEDs might be more at the gimmick phase atm where growing is concerned.
I was thinking about a carbon filter, that shouldnt be a massive issue. Lights and the amount of heat is where im worried to try and not get busted, which was why i was looking at C3 over the mylar.
Im looking for a small rotating fan i can put in there to simulate wind, but have yet to find one.

The issue i have with growing several plants is the lack of space i have. Have a 75cmx75cmx75cm for early stages, then the same area but 1.4m height instead, if need be for last stages. That said, im hoping LST will be i can keep the plants more like bushes, so i can utilise the space i have as much as possible.
Click to expand...
Well I'll take back that LEDs suck, they're actually alright its just the cost is ridiculously high for the wattage that you're getting. The amount of money you spend on a 150w LED you could buy a 600w HID with digital ballast and a MH and HPS bulb

In a few years I'm sure they'll be way cheaper and pretty much the best way to go for small scale or stealth grows, but for right now its just kinda meh.
 
H

hidelittleman

Member
ExDex, i thought that might be the case. I ahve seen some nice LED lights around the £500-600 mark, but that is roughly about 3 times more than i ideally want to spend on the setup.
G.O.D: I had seen those Kessel lights, but they looked too small and i didnt think they would do the job. Would have thought that the UFO would do a better job as well due to it being rated at 90w rather than 30w, and the UFO is £100 and £250 for the Kessil.

Cheers for the links Illumination, though i was under the impression that the HPS and CMH lights chuck out a lot of heat, especially compared with a CFL. As this is only for personal use, im not too fussed about my yield, as long as i get somewhere in the region of around 5-6 ounces then ill be fine. Stealth is my main issue, as i want people to come over, but not notice that there is a mini grow, my other worry is the police with IR scans. Apart from stealth, my other main consideration is getting the most i can for my cash, but not compromising too much on stealth.

After having a gander and doing some research as well, it looks as if the CFLs arent that great for flowering, but chucking a T5 Fluorescent in at the flowering stage, will boost yield without outputting a load of heat. That said, there are always posts that will tell you one thing, and another post will tell you something completely different.
 
I

Illumination

New Member
hidelittleman said:
ExDex, i thought that might be the case. I ahve seen some nice LED lights around the £500-600 mark, but that is roughly about 3 times more than i ideally want to spend on the setup.
G.O.D: I had seen those Kessel lights, but they looked too small and i didnt think they would do the job. Would have thought that the UFO would do a better job as well due to it being rated at 90w rather than 30w, and the UFO is £100 and £250 for the Kessil.

Cheers for the links Illumination, though i was under the impression that the HPS and CMH lights chuck out a lot of heat, especially compared with a CFL. As this is only for personal use, im not too fussed about my yield, as long as i get somewhere in the region of around 5-6 ounces then ill be fine. Stealth is my main issue, as i want people to come over, but not notice that there is a mini grow, my other worry is the police with IR scans. Apart from stealth, my other main consideration is getting the most i can for my cash, but not compromising too much on stealth.

After having a gander and doing some research as well, it looks as if the CFLs arent that great for flowering, but chucking a T5 Fluorescent in at the flowering stage, will boost yield without outputting a load of heat. That said, there are always posts that will tell you one thing, and another post will tell you something completely different.
Click to expand...

Seriously I did my last run with 668 actual watts cfl's- 24 bulbs on 2 plants and produced 4 ounces...the heat was a pain in the ass...Switched to 400 watt cmh and it performs much better and with much easier heat to control due to the remote placement of the ballast....in actuality the cfls will give a larger and more prominent ir image than the 400!!! /much easier to manage the grow as well

namaste':leaf:
 
H

hidelittleman

Member
24 bulbs at just under 700w? Tbh honest. i would have thought that the lumen output of that would have sufficed to gain a better yield than 4 ounces, and also why 24 bulbs rather than 2 or 3?. As its my first grow, i expect on bettering the standard yield for a plant as at least it gives me something to aim for. Yield if a male is chucked in the mix is obviously substantially lower, but i shall be gringin that up and making it into hash, rather than letting it go to waste.
 
I

Illumination

New Member
hidelittleman said:
24 bulbs at just under 700w? Tbh honest. i would have thought that the lumen output of that would have sufficed to gain a better yield than 4 ounces, and also why 24 bulbs rather than 2 or 3?. As its my first grow, i expect on bettering the standard yield for a plant as at least it gives me something to aim for. Yield if a male is chucked in the mix is obviously substantially lower, but i shall be gringin that up and making it into hash, rather than letting it go to waste.
Click to expand...
You will find that when it comes to cfl's more smaller wattages spread closely around the plant is necessary for any yeild and compactness of bud...Believe me I thought I was going to show everyone I could do better than hid but was so wrong...if you attempt to do it with a few larger wattage cfl's the inverse square law will kill you because of how diffuse the light they emit is to begin with will produce mostly fluffy popcorn buds...And the heat is a pain as is constantly adjusting the position of the lights...I am only sharing my personal experiences with you so that you do not have to go through the pains I went through and struggle to come out with a decent yield and potent product for your time and resources

But to each their own and best of luck...if I can help please ask and I will attempt to share info and help you along...it is all about community and sharing real info for me...

Namaste':leaf:

ps-on a small grow I highly recommend feminised seeds...Barney's Farms have proved excellent stable genetics with no hint of herming on their fems for me
 
ExDex1x1

ExDex1x1

Active Member
hidelittleman said:
24 bulbs at just under 700w? Tbh honest. i would have thought that the lumen output of that would have sufficed to gain a better yield than 4 ounces, and also why 24 bulbs rather than 2 or 3?. As its my first grow, i expect on bettering the standard yield for a plant as at least it gives me something to aim for. Yield if a male is chucked in the mix is obviously substantially lower, but i shall be gringin that up and making it into hash, rather than letting it go to waste.
Click to expand...
Illumination is 100% correct on this. You have to keep CFLs within 2-4" of the plant in order to get any sort of effective growth out of a plant. With CFLs its just a matter of how many bulbs you can pack around as close to your plants as possible without allowing them to burn. It wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to deal with the heat if you had more space for airflow, but since the entire premise of CFL growing requires you to cram everything within inches of your plants, it makes it both a pain in the ass to get decent airflow and coverage, and a pain in the ass to work with. Good CFL grows are possible, but it's really just much simpler and more practical to get a comparable HID. People are attracted to CFLs for the low cost, but when you think about it you end up replacing 20 something bulbs instead of 1 and assuming you're aiming for wattage similar to an HID, you're really not saving any money on electricity. LEDs will replace CFL grows as soon as Kessel runs into some competition for their high output LEDs and the price wars begin. Until that day, HIDs are just the least hassle to operate and maintain in the long run.
 
H

hidelittleman

Member
I wasnt sure whether or not to go for 2 or 3 200w/250w(actual wattage) CFL or using more, but at smaller wattages.

There do seem to be 1 or 2 good small CFL only grows out there that have seemed to have done well, but from having a gander through various grow logs and forum posts. It looks as if i might need to have another light type to support the CFL to produce bigger buds.

I wouldnt mind the T5s but thats because i know heat output wont be much of an issue. People have recommended CMH and HPS lights over CFL, however my main worry is still heat. Would a 150w HPS or CMH supplement the CFLs enough to have a relatively nice yield for the size of the plant; remembering that i will be going down the LST route to get a bushlike plant.
 
I

Illumination

New Member
250 cmh-from the sources previouly listed

Did these with 700 actual watts cfl:

Alice 13 weeks old 005 (2).jpgMARY 004 (2).jpg

But had to constantly battle heat

this is 4 weeks into flower 400 cmh:

mary lsd 4th week flower 011.JPGmary lsd 4th week flower 016.JPG

Much better, less wattage and way easier to control heat and light adjustment



hope it helps

namaste'
 
H

hidelittleman

Member
So CMH > HPS for yeild, uv and heat control
CFL and T5s purely as a supplemental to one of the aboves.

namaste': Your CFL grow actually looks ideal, and looks better than others that have tried before, but i didnt imagine heat being too much of an issue.

Tip of the hat to CMH grow as well, would be pushed to do that in my current space, but im thinking of holding off a couple more months as i could be moving to a bigger palce, which means bigger grow room. Also i can make sure my electricity usage is high from the start which will stop utility companies getting twitchy.

You got the full log of that CFL and CMH grow?
 
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