First organic grow, is this nute burn?

PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
However much compost it takes to cover the top layer of the soil.

Coconut water can be found in most gas stations and grocery stores. Just make sure it says 100% coconut water and there's no added sugar or extra ingredients.

Coconut water is loaded with cytokines, which will make your node growth explode while simultaneously making node spacing shorter. It is best used on seedlings/clones old enough to top and all the way until flower starts. I stop using it after the flower stretch is done, as there really is no need after that.




There is very little compost on the market that is actually good enough to be used at a 1:1:1 ratio I have found. It needs to be fully decomposed and aged properly. Only Oly Mountain and Coast of Maine products have impressed me.

IMO, unless you're making EWC/compost yourself it will causes issues in terms of soil texture for a few reasons. For one, unless this compost is perfectly light, fluffy, and airy then it will clump on you. Before adding compost to your soil, see how it reacts when you water it. Is it similar to coco coir? Or does it clump? If it clumps, this WILL happen in your soil. This is never a good thing.

The compost clumping on you will become a bigger problem when you're running no-till. Consider this, 33% is peat when you start a no-till mix right? Well, over a few runs that 33% peat moss will react with the organic inputs in your soil and become compost. So, after about a year or so your mix won't be 33% peat/perlite/compost. Once the peat and organic amendments decompose over time, you'll be left with something closer to 20-25% peat, 33% perlite, and 40-45% compost. And that doesn't even account for soil compaction, which is the #1 killer of no-till grows.

This is why I run 40% peat/40-45% perlite/15-20% compost, because that ratio accounts for all of the above issues. This way, when the peat and amendments decompose the soil compaction won't be as bad over time. This is because you'll still have sufficient peat moss, and the amount of perlite in your soil will ensure there is adequate aeration and drainage in your soil. The perlite will also help delay the effects of soil compaction. Soil compaction is inevitable. If it not a matter of if, but when and how long until it happens.

Furthermore, compost is the only thing that can be top dressed. Can't top dress more aeration into your mix. It is infinitely better to forgo having tons of compost in your soil because it can be put on your soil at literally any time.

You'll like the 40/40/20 ratio. In fact, upon mixing it I'm sure you immediately noticed how much lighter and fluffier it is. Imagine what your roots are going to think about that!
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I've been mixing my dry amendments with some EWC and pumice, and then I put it under my rice hull mulch layer and water it good.

I have the basalt now, so I'm gonna start experimenting with some of that soon. My plants seem to like the karanja that I started using.

Keep spreading your wisdom.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
I've been mixing my dry amendments with some EWC and pumice, and then I put it under my rice hull mulch layer and water it good.

I have the basalt now, so I'm gonna start experimenting with some of that soon. My plants seem to like the karanja that I started using.

Keep spreading your wisdom.
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Also asking @kratos015

If my end organic soil is high in calcium does this mean my bud will have a harsh or unpleasant smoke? I'm only giving them water for the last 2 1/2 weeks.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
So its not like synthetics where excess nutrients in the soil at the end cause a harsh taste?
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I've never noticed any harsh taste growing organically. i don't think you would growing with chems either as long as you don't massively overdo it, or feed it something you shouldn't.

With my organic soil I try to keep it fed the whole time, but with chemicals a lot of people just cut back on nutrients at the end of flower. I'm not a believer in the whole flushing thing either way.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Also asking @kratos015

If my end organic soil is high in calcium does this mean my bud will have a harsh or unpleasant smoke? I'm only giving them water for the last 2 1/2 weeks.
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Harsh smoke should never be a problem in a living soil. Any nutrients within the soil stay within the soil, not your plant. Plants in living soil will get the exact amounts of nutrients they need, at the exact time they need it.

Synthetics are made available to the plant immediately. Organic amendments decomposing in a living soil are not the same. As opposed to synthetics, where the substrate (should one even exist) is completely sterile and incapable of having nutrients "bind" to it. The roots will absorb whatever is in your reservoir, at all times.

In a living soil, the roots do not automatically absorb what is in your soil. tTe organic amendments produce some nutrients (in significantly smaller doses than synthetics) that are readily available and will produce readily available nutrients overtime as the amendment decomposes. The difference is that, if the plant doesn't need something that is available, it will simply bind itself to the soil via CEC or flow out via run off. Whether it binds or runs off depends on whether the decomposing amendment produces cations or anions. When the plant gets a craving for a specific nutrient, it's roots will signal to the microbes what it's needs are.

These microbes will either grab amendment containing said nutrient to decompose (go to the store), and then defecate the nutrients in the rhizosphere for the roots to absorb. Or, they will access whatever is bound to the soil substrate via the CEC.





Excess synthetics in a synthetic grow can cause harsh flavor/smoke, but in my experience harsh smoke/flavor is usually a result of quick drying and/or improper curing. Proper drying and curing is something people fuck up way more than growing.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
Harsh smoke should never be a problem in a living soil. Any nutrients within the soil stay within the soil, not your plant. Plants in living soil will get the exact amounts of nutrients they need, at the exact time they need it.

Synthetics are made available to the plant immediately. Organic amendments decomposing in a living soil are not the same. As opposed to synthetics, where the substrate (should one even exist) is completely sterile and incapable of having nutrients "bind" to it. The roots will absorb whatever is in your reservoir, at all times.

In a living soil, the roots do not automatically absorb what is in your soil. tTe organic amendments produce some nutrients (in significantly smaller doses than synthetics) that are readily available and will produce readily available nutrients overtime as the amendment decomposes. The difference is that, if the plant doesn't need something that is available, it will simply bind itself to the soil via CEC or flow out via run off. Whether it binds or runs off depends on whether the decomposing amendment produces cations or anions. When the plant gets a craving for a specific nutrient, it's roots will signal to the microbes what it's needs are.

These microbes will either grab amendment containing said nutrient to decompose (go to the store), and then defecate the nutrients in the rhizosphere for the roots to absorb. Or, they will access whatever is bound to the soil substrate via the CEC.





Excess synthetics in a synthetic grow can cause harsh flavor/smoke, but in my experience harsh smoke/flavor is usually a result of quick drying and/or improper curing. Proper drying and curing is something people fuck up way more than growing.
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You should be teaching grow classes, thank you for the detailed reply.

I agree with the drying and curing, though my last synthetic grow i tried one plant with nutrients till trim and it was noticeably harsher in my vape.

You are giving me a bit of hope to stick with organics.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
You should be teaching grow classes, thank you for the detailed reply.

I agree with the drying and curing, though my last synthetic grow i tried one plant with nutrients till trim and it was noticeably harsher in my vape.

You are giving me a bit of hope to stick with organics.
Click to expand...
If I can do it, anyone can!

In my experience, the biggest problem with learning something new is unnecessary pressure. Switching to an entirely new method of growing adds unnecessary pressure on one to succeed, causing one to focus more on success as opposed to simply learning.

I always recommend that people stick with what they know works, and experiment on a single plant or two with a new grow method.

Definitely stick with it, but maybe just go with a single pot or two to begin with. That way, there's no worry about succeeding. You have all your other plants growing the way you normally grow them, and those will be guaranteed to succeed and give you results. This way, you can freely learn without any negative consequences. Eventually, you'll have the personal experience necessary to make the switch if you decide it is best for you.

Ultimately, what matters is what works best for you.

Just stick with it, never stop researching and asking questions, and consider a grow journal. Even if no one responds to your grow journal, they are incredibly useful to look back on for future reference.

I've always maintained, if I can do this successfully anyone can. I also know how easy it is to overthink things at first, having come from a synthetic background myself.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
If I can do it, anyone can!

In my experience, the biggest problem with learning something new is unnecessary pressure. Switching to an entirely new method of growing adds unnecessary pressure on one to succeed, causing one to focus more on success as opposed to simply learning.

I always recommend that people stick with what they know works, and experiment on a single plant or two with a new grow method.

Definitely stick with it, but maybe just go with a single pot or two to begin with. That way, there's no worry about succeeding. You have all your other plants growing the way you normally grow them, and those will be guaranteed to succeed and give you results. This way, you can freely learn without any negative consequences. Eventually, you'll have the personal experience necessary to make the switch if you decide it is best for you.

Ultimately, what matters is what works best for you.

Just stick with it, never stop researching and asking questions, and consider a grow journal. Even if no one responds to your grow journal, they are incredibly useful to look back on for future reference.

I've always maintained, if I can do this successfully anyone can. I also know how easy it is to overthink things at first, having come from a synthetic background myself.
Click to expand...
Also at @PadawanWarrior

The plants are definitely doing better with a little bit of bath salts on each watering. I baked my new soil and I did once again, before I knew, put extra gypsum and OSF in the mix. I obviously don't want to waste it, so I'll keep adding bath salts to my watering.

If I didn't want to add bath salts but wanted to add extra Mag, would adding extra green sand be a good alternative? I noticed it has Mag and no Cal. Thoughts?

www.gaiagreen.com

Greensand | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Greensand is mined from ancient, nutrient-rich deposits of oceanic sediment. Over time, this sediment developed into glauconite, which is highly effective as a slow-release fertilizer used to improve the mineral content of soil and other growing media. Greensand is gentle on plants...
www.gaiagreen.com www.gaiagreen.com
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
Also at @PadawanWarrior

The plants are definitely doing better with a little bit of bath salts on each watering. I baked my new soil and I did once again, before I knew, put extra gypsum and OSF in the mix. I obviously don't want to waste it, so I'll keep adding bath salts to my watering.

If I didn't want to add bath salts but wanted to add extra Mag, would adding extra green sand be a good alternative? I noticed it has Mag and no Cal. Thoughts?

www.gaiagreen.com

Greensand | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Greensand is mined from ancient, nutrient-rich deposits of oceanic sediment. Over time, this sediment developed into glauconite, which is highly effective as a slow-release fertilizer used to improve the mineral content of soil and other growing media. Greensand is gentle on plants...
www.gaiagreen.com www.gaiagreen.com
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I've never used greensand. That looks like good stuff, but it also has a little K in it just so you know.

I actually try not to use Epsom in my soil since I've heard it can build up and cause issues. I'm trying a no-till type soil though.

Wait for @kratos015. He's the one I'd ask.
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Ya I've read that before, but I think they're talking about outdoors. Not in container pots.

In hydro or outdoors I would be more likely to use it more often. I just think it can build up in container pots that you're not trying to allow runoff.
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The green sand also has Iron, im wondering if too much iron locks out something else.

Glacial rock dust also has Mag and no Cal or K.

www.gaiagreen.com

Glacial Rock Dust | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Glacial Rock Dust is sourced from mineral deposits left by moving glaciers during the last ice age. This natural fertilizer contains essential plant nutrients that support strong plant growth, and can be used on all plants in home gardens, landscapes, lawn, and turf. GAIA GREEN...
www.gaiagreen.com www.gaiagreen.com
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
VILEPLUME said:
The green sand also has Iron, im wondering if too much iron locks out something else.

Glacial rock dust also has Mag and no Cal or K.

www.gaiagreen.com

Glacial Rock Dust | Gaia Green Organics

GAIA GREEN Glacial Rock Dust is sourced from mineral deposits left by moving glaciers during the last ice age. This natural fertilizer contains essential plant nutrients that support strong plant growth, and can be used on all plants in home gardens, landscapes, lawn, and turf. GAIA GREEN...
www.gaiagreen.com www.gaiagreen.com
Click to expand...
Ya, too much of one nutrient affects the nutrient intake of others.

Mulder's Nutrient Chart.jpg
 
VILEPLUME

VILEPLUME

Well-Known Member
Side question, is Rezin worth getting for organics or even Medi one as a back up for a quick tea?

www.greenplanetnutrients.com

Rezin

Rezin is our flowering nutrient additive formulated to enhance the natural processes within flowering plants that produce flavour and aroma.
www.greenplanetnutrients.com www.greenplanetnutrients.com
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
For instance too much Ca can lock out P, K, Mg, Fe, B, Mn, and Zn.

But more N makes the plant able to uptake more Mg.

I'm still learning how to read this chart though, so don't take my word for it.
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That chart has been posted several times.I think this is the first time ive seen the description of what the colors meant .lol it almost makes sense now.
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Greensand also offers some micros but takes forever to break down from what I've always read. I include it for slow release and that might mean 'next run' slow, so if you plan to re-use the soil then I'd consider including greensand for the long-term benefits. Another member on here was chasing a micro def and I think he was leaning towards more use of greensand for that particular micro input they needed.
 
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