first grow, need help!

stonamofs

Well-Known Member
so i'm new here, and i've browsed many grows in forums that have turned out great with the help of others. that's why i'm here. to share my newbie experience.
accidentally posted in journals and got no response, and the plants are going slightly worse, so i hope to get some new ideas.

technically this isn't my first grow. last year a friend and i went out and planted a random seed in the backyard garden. it was just for fun, little did we know 3 weeks later a small plant with a few leaves coming from it had emerged, we dug it up carefully with a spoon and put it in a cup. we put it in the window watered it and it grew for a few days, but then i went on vacation and my cat had knocked it over. it was too late when i'd arrived home.

So spring is here once again, and for a year i've been collecting seeds from my best stuff, buds that i would consider kush tasting but with fewer seeds. I did not collect seeds from buds that were loaded in seeds, as i feared they may have a high hermie rate?(something i know little about) plus, generally speaking i find that buds loaded in seeds don't seem to be very potent(from what i've experienced).. Turns out i had collected 50 or so seeds. I heard somewhere that you should do a press-test, in which you press gently on each seed in an attempt to dispose of the dormant/dead, dried up ones. 30 seeds were kept, and after discarding the lime green ones that seemed premature, i ended up with 25 seeds.

I did no research, but knew of a friend that had tried the 'paper towel method' with little success. I decided to just drop all the seeds in a cup half full of room temperature water and put a card on the lid. Time went by, i lost track of the time. I actually forgot about the germination altogether, until i went to clean my room one day. I would have dumped the same cup down the sink if there hadn't been a card on it. To my surprise, each and every seed had white tails roughly 2cm long attached to them. I would guess i had left them to germinate for maybe 10 days or 2 weeks at most. I hoped that none of them had 'drowned' so to speak by being left in the water for too long.

So i went to the dollar store and picked up some 'dirt-cheap' dirt (not the best idea) called magic potting soil, some plastic potters of different sizes, a spray bottle, plant food sticks, 3 fluorescent lights (the spiral eco-efficient ones), and a small watering can. it cost me around 10$
I got home and set up a closet with reflective dome light fixtures, and hung them from the closet pole. i used an old desk lamp as my 3rd light.
I began to set out the smaller potters, put dirt in one and retrieved a seed sprout. And to my amazement, didn't have any idea which way to plant them.
The tail up or the tail down? Luckily, i decided to plant them root down, and within a few days they broke through the dirt and their emb. leaves began to show.
SAM_0406.jpg SAM_0409.jpg

I began to water them each day when the soil became dry with water that had been set open for 24 hours. I used both tap and bottled because i wasn't sure, and didn't want to go out and buy distilled water. It seemed to work fine. Within a few more days this was the result.
SAM_0447.jpg

Next, i replanted them delicately into new soil and bigger pots. They seemed to like it. It has been a week since they broke dirt.
SAM_0450.jpg SAM_0456.jpg

more days pass.. instead of adding an entire stick of plant food into each plant, i decided on cutting them into quarter inch bits and placing them in 10 randomly chosen plants. After several more waters they've seemed fine but the embryonic leaves are beginning to yellow/brown already is this normal?
SAM_0468.jpg SAM_0481.jpg

I've been keeping the plants on 24/0. They seem to like it, I gave them a good drought then and soak, as well as another misting.
SAM_0482.jpg SAM_0494.jpg

I learned today that misting plants causes the pores of the plants leaves to clog, as well as burn holes in them and cause them to become paper dry and wilted.
SAM_0505.jpg SAM_0504.jpg
this is the worst leaf, the very next day it was dry to touch and cracked when i pressed on it gently :(

Tonight i used the watering can, will not be misting anymore and i hope the effects can be reversed. I also noticed that i've been leaving the doors to my closet shut which may be causing them to overheat and suffocate. I plan to purchase a small desk fan soon but until then made sure to leave the doors ajar.

I am hoping the problems will be resolved soon. Let me know what you think and i'll keep you updated.
until then, Stonamofs! bongsmilie :bigjoint::leaf:
 

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
Your picture links do not work for me...
Yes, mist the 'Soil' not the plant....
So, [not me, but we] here at RIU, if I was your doctor, what is your chief complaint?
A specialist will be checking in soon....
 

AimAim

Well-Known Member
I learned today that misting plants causes the pores of the plants leaves to clog, as well as burn holes in them and cause them to become paper dry and wilted.
You posed a lot of questions but I will just address this one. Misting does not clog the pores (called stoma). The stoma are located on the underside of the leaf, where most people do not mist anyway, although thats where they should be misting. I mist a lot, with 1/4 strength nutes, cal-mag, and spray-n-grow. Done misting for decades.

The theory that water droplets concentrate the light and burn holes is generally bullshit. It might happen I guess if you had intense light, but if you got any airflow going your leaves are going to be dry in 15 minutes anyway. Making them paper dry and wilted is also BS, it hydrates the leaves, at least temporarily.

Think about it, MJ naturally grows outdoors and gets rain and mist and moisture on it constantly, like everything else from tomatoes to oak trees. You ever see "water damage" on naturally growing plants of any kind?

Good luck, sift carefully through the information you read on the internet.
 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member

  • The theory that water droplets concentrate the light and burn holes is generally bullshit. It might happen I guess if you had intense light, but if you got any airflow going your leaves are going to be dry in 15 minutes anyway. Making them paper dry and wilted is also BS, it hydrates the leaves, at least temporarily.

    I believe the intense light was the problem, but i still discontinued misting the leaves directly.

    Think about it, MJ naturally grows outdoors and gets rain and mist and moisture on it constantly, like everything else from tomatoes to oak trees. You ever see "water damage" on naturally growing plants of any kind?

    In nature, rain clouds don't generally pour rain and then the sun comes out right away (rainbow). The plant has time to air dry before direct sunlight shines upon it. My plants were kept in 0 air flow so i'd imagine the water droplets sat on the leaves for a long time acting as mini magnifying glasses. The 24/0 light schedule doesn't help with that either. I agree with a light misting but i believe it is better to do at lights off, as dew settles on plants during the night. For now, i'd prefer to avoid it altogether until the leaves bounce back. I was not light-misting. I was drowning them with the spray bottle :P

    As a side note, would you happen to know of anything else that would cause brown spotting, dry leaves that crack to the touch, and slowed growth? high or low ph, or certain nutrition deficiencies that may be causing this? I've used a general fertilizer only once, because it seemed to slow the growth rather than improve it. I have no idea what NPK to look for, and i believe i mixed it in the wrong proportion.

    Did the pics show up for anyone else?


 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member
A bump as well as an update. HAPPY 4/20 :)
Today is Week 3 Day 3 of the grow.

I am worried as the majority of the plants look a little lets say, underdeveloped.
SAM_0524.jpg SAM_0527.jpg SAM_0529.jpg

Also, many of the plants continue to show more dying leaves.
SAM_0536.jpg SAM_0541.jpg SAM_0543.jpg :cry::cry::cry::cry:

Some of the leaves have become bone dry, discolored (yellow and brown) and one fell off when i touched it. :shock:
SAM_0550.jpg SAM_0552.jpg SAM_0553.jpg SAM_0555.jpg
:wall::idea: I really need some ideas/feedback on what could be causing this??
If it was a nute deficiency, my guess is they lack all of them.
As a precaution, i removed the pieces of plant food i had placed in their containers only days earlier.
Other than the increased light, the plant food is the only thing done differently before this occurred.
I still think they burned from over misting with the increased light. I prey for their speedy recoveries!

However, on the brighter side, 4 plants do seem to be up to better standards.
SAM_0556.jpg
I will more than likely end up keeping just these 4..
My initial idea of starting these plants was to only keep the ones that grow best.
If things don't improve, i'll scrap the dying plants ;(
ANY IDEAS?!
 

Attachments

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
i decided on cutting them into quarter inch bits and placing them in 10 randomly chosen plants. After several more waters they've seemed fine but the embryonic leaves are beginning to yellow/brown already is this normal?
You burnt the little girls with the cut up plant styx.... are the burnt ones with the cut piece?

Water only until good roots, which will show up as new growth and a new node or two...
Put lights as close as you can... 3-5" max...
At this stage the plants only need water/light/soil...
Good Luck !
 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member

  • You burnt the little girls with the cut up plant styx.... are the burnt ones with the cut piece?

    Water only until good roots, which will show up as new growth and a new node or two...
    Put lights as close as you can... 3-5" max...
    At this stage the plants only need water/light/soil...
    Good Luck !​


Thanks for the tips. I agree those dollar-store plant food sticks were a bad idea.
I read somewhere that during veg growth nitrogen is very important, and the sticks were full of nitrates!
However, these are still seedlings.. and don't really need nutes.. i just thought i'd try something new to speed things up.
The plants that are going best are the ones I did not put the sticks in.

I have another question! I was using 3 13 watt CFL's and the plants were going good.
I upped to 3 26watt? bulbs last week roughly, before all this happened. They produce a bit of heat..
Did the increased light/heat also stress the plants? Do you think they'll bounce back? I can switch back to 13wt bulbs if they'll suffice.
and when I do water, should i leech the soil to rid the remaining plant food?

And on a final note, here are some close-ups of the 4 plants that seem to be doing better..
SAM_0559.jpg<A SAM_0560.jpg<B SAM_0561.jpg<C SAM_0571.jpg<D
My question is, When should i start to top these? I know its still early, but I am starting to see the (4th node??)..
At which node do you begin to top? If you considered these plants 3 weeks old, do they look 'premature' ?

Call me crazy, i smelled plant C and D and they both already smell a bit like weed.
Is that normal cause i thought they'd be scent free until flowering?

They are growing a bit tall (A being tallest at 4 inches) i'll be sure to drop the lights down some more.
Thanks again for all the help, very greatly appreciated!
~Stonamofs
 

South Texas

Well-Known Member
  • The theory that water droplets concentrate the light and burn holes is generally bullshit. It might happen I guess if you had intense light, but if you got any airflow going your leaves are going to be dry in 15 minutes anyway. Making them paper dry and wilted is also BS, it hydrates the leaves, at least temporarily.I believe the intense light was the problem, but i still discontinued misting the leaves directly.Think about it, MJ naturally grows outdoors and gets rain and mist and moisture on it constantly, like everything else from tomatoes to oak trees. You ever see "water damage" on naturally growing plants of any kind?In nature, rain clouds don't generally pour rain and then the sun comes out right away (rainbow). The plant has time to air dry before direct sunlight shines upon it. My plants were kept in 0 air flow so i'd imagine the water droplets sat on the leaves for a long time acting as mini magnifying glasses. The 24/0 light schedule doesn't help with that either. I agree with a light misting but i believe it is better to do at lights off, as dew settles on plants during the night. For now, i'd prefer to avoid it altogether until the leaves bounce back. I was not light-misting. I was drowning them with the spray bottle :PAs a side note, would you happen to know of anything else that would cause brown spotting, dry leaves that crack to the touch, and slowed growth? high or low ph, or certain nutrition deficiencies that may be causing this? I've used a general fertilizer only once, because it seemed to slow the growth rather than improve it. I have no idea what NPK to look for, and i believe i mixed it in the wrong proportion.Did the pics show up for anyone else?
I would readjust... get bigger pots, min. 400 watts, hps or mh. Get good soil, like vortex. The sticks has ruined the existing soil. NPK is only 3 of 100 trace minerials that your Babbies really, really desire. Have HASMAT despose of the chem sticks. Mistake # 1, "Trying to improve Mother. instead of working WITH Her". Patience! The BBQ grill & the distance between the top leaf & the light shares the same rule, the Mississippi Rule. palm down, touching the top leaf. Pull lite close to top of hand. Count Miss... one, Miss... two,etc. It should be Mississippi ( 4 seconds) Outch! Like baby bottle milk on the wrisk. The air flow has to be considered, also. Indirect air flow w/ 2 - 20 min. direct air per day. Always use fish emultion, liquid seaweed, & molesses. 2-2-2 ratio, IE; 2 tbs of each per gal. of clorine-free water. Pull plant out of contaminated soil, wash soil off of root system w/ good (rain) water, then soak roots in mixture fo 10 minutes, then repot. Use 23/1 lighting.. one hour for foiler & regular feeding. Read about Zealite, corn meal, epson salt, molasses, etc on the dirt doctor web site. (Roseglo, Thrive,etc. Perfectly healthy plants is simply a by-product of good living soi. Its the microbes & fungi's that spoon feeds the Ladies, the molasses feeds the Microbes. Hope this helped.
 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice!
Bigger pots aren't logical for me until the 'girls' get big enough that i can decide which ones i want to keep.
As for soil, i picked up an all purpose bag without fertilizer in it, yet 'high in organic materials'.
It's better dirt, but certainly not as good as vortex or foxfarm. For now, I lack the funds to go buy proper soil.
At the moment, I am waiting for the soil to become dry enough to do a replant.
I will rinse the roots of the toxic 'plant food', use the new dirt and avoid carrying out my so called 'good ideas', at least for the time being.
Hopefully they can bounce back, as today they look exactly the same.
When I see any sign of improvement I will do another update. :)
For now, ~Stonamofs
 

g00sEgg

Well-Known Member
so i'm new here, and i've browsed many grows in forums that have turned out great with the help of others. that's why i'm here. to share my newbie experience.
accidentally posted in journals and got no response, and the plants are going slightly worse, so i hope to get some new ideas.

technically this isn't my first grow. last year a friend and i went out and planted a random seed in the backyard garden. it was just for fun, little did we know 3 weeks later a small plant with a few leaves coming from it had emerged, we dug it up carefully with a spoon and put it in a cup. we put it in the window watered it and it grew for a few days, but then i went on vacation and my cat had knocked it over. it was too late when i'd arrived home.

So spring is here once again, and for a year i've been collecting seeds from my best stuff, buds that i would consider kush tasting but with fewer seeds. I did not collect seeds from buds that were loaded in seeds, as i feared they may have a high hermie rate?(something i know little about) plus, generally speaking i find that buds loaded in seeds don't seem to be very potent(from what i've experienced).. Turns out i had collected 50 or so seeds. I heard somewhere that you should do a press-test, in which you press gently on each seed in an attempt to dispose of the dormant/dead, dried up ones. 30 seeds were kept, and after discarding the lime green ones that seemed premature, i ended up with 25 seeds.

I did no research, but knew of a friend that had tried the 'paper towel method' with little success. I decided to just drop all the seeds in a cup half full of room temperature water and put a card on the lid. Time went by, i lost track of the time. I actually forgot about the germination altogether, until i went to clean my room one day. I would have dumped the same cup down the sink if there hadn't been a card on it. To my surprise, each and every seed had white tails roughly 2cm long attached to them. I would guess i had left them to germinate for maybe 10 days or 2 weeks at most. I hoped that none of them had 'drowned' so to speak by being left in the water for too long.

So i went to the dollar store and picked up some 'dirt-cheap' dirt (not the best idea) called magic potting soil, some plastic potters of different sizes, a spray bottle, plant food sticks, 3 fluorescent lights (the spiral eco-efficient ones), and a small watering can. it cost me around 10$
I got home and set up a closet with reflective dome light fixtures, and hung them from the closet pole. i used an old desk lamp as my 3rd light.
I began to set out the smaller potters, put dirt in one and retrieved a seed sprout. And to my amazement, didn't have any idea which way to plant them.
The tail up or the tail down? Luckily, i decided to plant them root down, and within a few days they broke through the dirt and their emb. leaves began to show.
View attachment 2623800 View attachment 2623782

I began to water them each day when the soil became dry with water that had been set open for 24 hours. I used both tap and bottled because i wasn't sure, and didn't want to go out and buy distilled water. It seemed to work fine. Within a few more days this was the result.
View attachment 2623783

Next, i replanted them delicately into new soil and bigger pots. They seemed to like it. It has been a week since they broke dirt.
View attachment 2623785 View attachment 2623786

more days pass.. instead of adding an entire stick of plant food into each plant, i decided on cutting them into quarter inch bits and placing them in 10 randomly chosen plants. After several more waters they've seemed fine but the embryonic leaves are beginning to yellow/brown already is this normal?
View attachment 2623795 View attachment 2623796

I've been keeping the plants on 24/0. They seem to like it, I gave them a good drought then and soak, as well as another misting.
View attachment 2623798 View attachment 2623799

I learned today that misting plants causes the pores of the plants leaves to clog, as well as burn holes in them and cause them to become paper dry and wilted.
View attachment 2623811 View attachment 2623816
this is the worst leaf, the very next day it was dry to touch and cracked when i pressed on it gently :(

Tonight i used the watering can, will not be misting anymore and i hope the effects can be reversed. I also noticed that i've been leaving the doors to my closet shut which may be causing them to overheat and suffocate. I plan to purchase a small desk fan soon but until then made sure to leave the doors ajar.

I am hoping the problems will be resolved soon. Let me know what you think and i'll keep you updated.
until then, Stonamofs! bongsmilie :bigjoint::leaf:
Looks/Sounds like heat stress and some nute burn. I'm sure this has been cleared up already though.
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
i think your soil looks dense. no perlite. no oxygen around the root system. and i think you are feeding too early. cannabis is a hardy thing however and even if you have a 90% attrition rate you'll still get some nice dank. read up on subcools soil mix. you won't regret it.
 

AimAim

Well-Known Member
[Q
  • In nature, rain clouds don't generally pour rain and then the sun comes out right away (rainbow). The plant has time to air dry before direct sunlight shines upon it.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah well that happens plenty of times. In practice and actuality I have overhead irrigated thousands of acres of row crops, and hundreds of thousands of greenhouse starts. Millions actually. Poured lots of gallons of moisture on top of plants in intense sun.

    Never seen a "water drop burn", ever. It's an internet myth. Show me one picture of such a malady. You might come up with a foliar nute burn picture, but general water burn from the "magnifying glass effect" is in general just BS.
 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member
i think your soil looks dense. no perlite. no oxygen around the root system. and i think you are feeding too early. cannabis is a hardy thing however and even if you have a 90% attrition rate you'll still get some nice dank. read up on subcools soil mix. you won't regret it.
My soil is/was very dense. Many plants, when i replanted them, have already developed complex root systems that approach the sides of the containers.
Other plants have only small root masses, and as you said, i believe the soil was a big problem. I went out and got new all purpose soil, it contains organic elements. No added nutes.
It also contains per-lite, sphagnum moss and some kind of lime. It doesn't dense when watered, it expands and becomes spongy.
I believe the cause of the burning was a combination of these things.
To compensate, i have decreased light intensity to 13 watts(x3), used better soil, created an airflow in the space, and stopped misting the foliage directly.



    • In nature, rain clouds don't generally pour rain and then the sun comes out right away (rainbow). The plant has time to air dry before direct sunlight shines upon it.[/QUOTE]

      Yeah well that happens plenty of times. In practice and actuality I have overhead irrigated thousands of acres of row crops, and hundreds of thousands of greenhouse starts. Millions actually. Poured lots of gallons of moisture on top of plants in intense sun.

      Never seen a "water drop burn", ever. It's an internet myth. Show me one picture of such a malady. You might come up with a foliar nute burn picture, but general water burn from the "magnifying glass effect" is in general just BS.



You've got a lot more experience than I do, however my opinion still differs, at least for the time being.
Plants absorb nutes and water through their roots and transpire through their leaves.
Unfortunately, a dead leaf wont come back to life by simply spraying water on it :'( (i certainly wish though)
Thanks for your info, I will definitely look into foliar feeding and trace elements for my future grows!
I do believe the damage was a combination of using cheap soil, plant food sticks, and drenching the plants while under intense light and heat.
 

stonamofs

Well-Known Member
It's been a few days and the nute burned gals have lost more leaves.
The tops continue to show healthy growth but will probably need 2 weeks or so to recover, i'll update on them when their time comes.
However, quite happy with the growth of my other ladies, they are healthy as can be and showing new signs of growth.
SAM_0584.jpg SAM_0587.jpg SAM_0588.jpg
As you can see, the stressed plants have a long way to come...
luckily, these ladies are growing 6 inches wide and already smelling beautiful
 
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