First Grow In 6 Years - Chemdog, Berry Ryder, Northern Lights

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
Here's the smaller NL and smaller Berry Ryder (2g pots instead of 3g like the others) - Berry Ryder on the left, NL on the right:
DSCN1703.JPG
 

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
I knew there was a good reason.
Idk bro they were still droopy this morning and the lowest / oldest leaves on two of the girls are turning yellow from the tips to about halfway up the leaves. It happened pretty quick I'm thinking something is not right :/
 

polo the don

Well-Known Member
Idk bro they were still droopy this morning and the lowest / oldest leaves on two of the girls are turning yellow from the tips to about halfway up the leaves. It happened pretty quick I'm thinking something is not right :/
Is it a burnt, dry, crispy yellow? Like N burn? Sometimes too much N will make them droop. In one of your pics I noticed some of the fan leaves were curled down, another sign of N tox.
 

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
Is it a burnt, dry, crispy yellow? Like N burn? Sometimes too much N will make them droop. In one of your pics I noticed some of the fan leaves were curled down, another sign of N tox.
I'll take a better look when I get home in about 6 hours...Yesterday morning I poured the rest of that compost tea into their solo cups (was gonna foliar feed it and had it in a spray bottle...) - Never watered the actual smart pots. Wondering if they could use some water to push some of that shit through and spread it out in the medium instead of being mostly in the solo cups?

This is what I used: http://drearth.net/products/organic-fertilizers/organic-6-flower-garden-fertilizer/
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
the lowest / oldest leaves on two of the girls are turning yellow from the tips to about halfway up the leaves.
That could be from overwatering or a resulting compacted medium, but if you suspect overwatering as the main cause, I suggest just letting it go for a while (couple of days) instead of trying to 'fix' the symptom. Losing a few of the older fans that are covered by others is not necessarily a big deal.

I don't think it's too high on N unless you specifically gave it more N since the recent photos on which the leaves are nicely green and not as dark as they would be with N tox.

Ok... after reading your new reply. Usually the last change made is where to look for the cause. They actually don't look that heavily overwatered (petioles would bulge upwards first) but you could lift the pots to get an idea. Things like this is why I used a blumat tensiometer when growing on soil. Could at least exclude over/underwatering as an issue without having to try out more/less water.

At this stage (once you can assume there are plenty of roots in the cup) you should be watering those smart pots and not the cups (not around the stem), i.e. the other way around, plant will do the rest.

If you want to water to spread the tea out, do you have an airstone+pump? Aerating the water before you give it at least won't make the overwatering much worse if that's what's going on. Overwatering is a bit of misnomer as hydroponics shows so clearly.
 

polo the don

Well-Known Member
I'll take a better look when I get home in about 6 hours...Yesterday morning I poured the rest of that compost tea into their solo cups (was gonna foliar feed it and had it in a spray bottle...) - Never watered the actual smart pots. Wondering if they could use some water to push some of that shit through and spread it out in the medium instead of being mostly in the solo cups?

This is what I used: http://drearth.net/products/organic-fertilizers/organic-6-flower-garden-fertilizer/
Now your thinking! That's what I would do. Let them dry up and water everything real good. Maybe a full watering will "balance" it out.
 

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
That could be from overwatering or a resulting compacted medium, but if you suspect overwatering as the main cause, I suggest just letting it go for a while (couple of days) instead of trying to 'fix' the symptom. Losing a few of the older fans that are covered by others is not necessarily a big deal.

I don't think it's too high on N unless you specifically gave it more N since the recent photos on which the leaves are nicely green and not as dark as they would be with N tox.

Ok... after reading your new reply. Usually the last change made is where to look for the cause. They actually don't look that heavily overwatered (petioles would bulge upwards first) but you could lift the pots to get an idea. Things like this is why I used a blumat tensiometer when growing on soil. Could at least exclude over/underwatering as an issue without having to try out more/less water.

At this stage (once you can assume there are plenty of roots in the cup) you should be watering those smart pots and not the cups (not around the stem), i.e. the other way around, plant will do the rest.

If you want to water to spread the tea out, do you have an airstone+pump? Aerating the water before you give it at least won't make the overwatering much worse if that's what's going on. Overwatering is a bit of misnomer as hydroponics shows so clearly.
Okay so overwatering is actually in reference to water depleted of oxygen sitting on the roots rather than just "too much water" - keeping the medium too saturated will deprive the root zone of oxygen I guess? - whereas in hydro the water is constantly oxygenated by an air stone and circulating around...?

And I'm certain there are plenty of roots down in the smart pots because on the two I culled there were roots at the bottom of the smart pots, and starting to fill in the sides of it...are u saying I can stop watering the solo cup and just hit the smart pots from now on?


Don't have an airstone but I could pick one up...I thought above refrigerating the water because I heard cooler water can hold more oxygen? Lol...hopefully things can get sorted out. It'd be nice to have a successful harvest on my first time through...


I forgot to mention I also raised the lights about 6 inches yesterday morning. After our discussion yesterday about the 600w being overkill for my 32" x 32" area I thought maybe they were getting a little too much light / heat (canopy is staying around 82f though with the tower fan on low). Maybe after being accustomed to being hot they're getting a little too cold towards the floor with the light being raised up...might have to drop it back down?
 
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ayr0n

Well-Known Member
Idk if this can help at all with the hps n all but I snapped this photo this morning...all of em were laying down like this:
IMAG0667.jpg

Do you think raising the light 6" could of cooled them down too much compared to what they've been accustomed to ?
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Yes, low DO (dissolved oxygen) levels in hydro causes the exact same overwatering symptoms as "overwatering" a medium.

are u saying I can stop watering the solo cup and just hit the smart pots from now on?
Yes. Roots sucking up water is what brings nutrients close enough to the roots for uptake.

Cooling the water first is something your plants will appreciate unless you'd warm it up first and I think then the net effect is close to zero.

As for the light distance, 6 inch can make a difference although that would surprise me considering the small space. What is the distance currently? With an optimal temp and light they will transpire better/more and won't droop a quickly from overwatering.

I wouldn't pick up an airstone+pump for this alone, but aren't you supposed to aerate the tea as well? (zero experience with compost tea... but you did mentioned "the rest of", has it been standing for a while?). So without those available I concur with the Don, let them dry out a little (not literally "dry" ) and then water only.

Main difference between overwatering and underwatering (or water uptake issues) is that the leave stems curve up before hanging down when overwatered while with underwatering they wilt and start hanging from the point where the leaves attach to the stem while the leaves itself don't bulge, at least not as much. Cold issue can look a lot like overwatering, your plants look like some of mine do under 400 watt at night, but I doubt that's it.
 

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
As for the light distance, 6 inch can make a difference although that would surprise me considering the small space. What is the distance currently? With an optimal temp and light they will transpire better/more and won't droop a quickly from overwatering.
I didn't measure (will tonight) but I'd say it's roughly 16-18" from the top of the canopy...

I wouldn't pick up an airstone+pump for this alone, but aren't you supposed to aerate the tea as well? (zero experience with compost tea... but you did mentioned "the rest of", has it been standing for a while?). So without those available I concur with the Don, let them dry out a little (not literally "dry" ) and then water only.
Yeah it would of helped I'm sure. Let it sit for a day before using it to water (mixing it every couple hours) - it was still bubbling the next day (dogs loved the smell of that shit - they were jumping up at the counter to get at it lol) - and then what was left was in a spray bottle for a day and a half but I decided not to spray it n just poured the rest down in their solo cups xD


So without those available I concur with the Don, let them dry out a little (not literally "dry" ) and then water only.
Alright I'm gonna go ahead and wait it out a little - see how they react if I let it dry out some more - and then I'll hit them with plain pH adjusted water and hope they bounce back nicely.




Another thing that's changed in the last several days is I've stopped foliar feeding and spraying completely - previously doing it 1-2 times a day almost everyday - so I wonder if they've become accustomed to the spray and the humidity, and now that I'm not spraying the humidity has lowered quite a bit (haven't actually been keeping an eye on it ;\ just assuming it'd go down without the spraying) so they're having some trouble adjusting to the change?
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
Is that with or without cooltube? 600watt should be roughly 60cm away (400watt 40cm, 1000watt a meter), you can go a little lower because you have less area to cover but I wouldn't lower them those 6 inches again. I keep mine at roughly 20" (50cm instead of 60cm) and that already gives some heat stress directly below the light. I'm still surprised you can get away with running a 600w in 32x32".

That said, do check the temps and RH because both affect the transpiration a lot. If raising the light caused the temps near the plant to drop it will cause reduced transpiration which in practice means you need to water a little less too.

so they're having some trouble adjusting to the change?
Hard to say what goes on in their mind (as a matter of speaking :) ) but remember what I said about not spraying too often to prevent "lazy roots" and possibly backfiring during flowering? It's a bit of a stoner term probably but it's an oldie. If you sprayed two times a day you meddle with the transpiration directly and indirectly (by changing the humidity) and then when you stop the plant will have to re-regulate itself. Just a theory... but yeah I think that could play a role too.
 

ayr0n

Well-Known Member
Is that with or without cooltube? 600watt should be roughly 60cm away (400watt 40cm, 1000watt a meter), you can go a little lower because you have less area to cover but I wouldn't lower them those 6 inches again. I keep mine at roughly 20" (50cm instead of 60cm) and that already gives some heat stress directly below the light. I'm still surprised you can get away with running a 600w in 32x32".

That said, do check the temps and RH because both affect the transpiration a lot. If raising the light caused the temps near the plant to drop it will cause reduced transpiration which in practice means you need to water a little less too.

Hard to say what goes on in their mind (as a matter of speaking :) ) but remember what I said about not spraying too often to prevent "lazy roots" and possibly backfiring during flowering? It's a bit of a stoner term probably but it's an oldie. If you sprayed two times a day you meddle with the transpiration directly and indirectly (by changing the humidity) and then when you stop the plant will have to re-regulate itself. Just a theory... but yeah I think that could play a role too.
That's without a cool tube lol :/ my light is playing the role of heater and light atm...temps are real cool in the surrounding room year round so it's kind of balanced out inside the tent between the high heat from the HID and the cool air from the passive intake. I have to turn my exhaust fan off during the dark period or the temp drops down pretty drastically inside the tent..

Definitely gonna spray less next go. I think your theory certainly has some validity and we're seeing it at play here.
 
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