First Grow Ever - Stealth DIY CFL DWC Auto AK & Fem Big Bud... Help Wanted

(Butters) said:

No can do on the "SOG with a Mother" Feldmeister. Sadly, the autoflowering strains aren't really clonable since they don't techinically have a veg phase. Read a bunch on this from people who'v tried but couldn't yield anything. I'm doing more or less the same thing you're trying to do. Basically, the auto's SOG needs to be done from seed. I'm currently in the process of trying to pollinate a female to get more seeds and then I'll start the official SOG set up. I would have attached my current grow journal in my sig but I have no idea how to do this. My journal is under the DWC/Bubbleponics thread and is titled "Attempt at Making Lowryder 2 Seeds".

If, in your research, you find a link to someone that was succesfully able to do a SOG using mother plants with auto's please please please hook me up with a link. Now that I read your original post, it looks like you may have been referring to a "mother" from another strain for SOG. If so, my mistake and apologies.

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Nah, I knew what feldmeister meant. He was talking about starting a full size plant to be a mother for clones at a later time. I'm doin that same shit.

(Butters) said:

Get ready for the smell 420. Mine is 4.5 weeks and holy crap is he skunky. Impressive really for a plant that size. And it's like they don't even nutes at all. My ppm has barely budged throughout my grow. Are you tracking ppm? Curious to see how these babies do in soil as compared to hydro.

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I'm not tracking ppm, as I don't have the money for a meter yet. I did clean the chlorine out, and pHed the water to 6.

Thanks for sharing the information 420 I appreciate it, and butter's yeah I was referring to mothering a completely different strain, and then taking clones and going into the SOG method. I havent heard much on the front of cloning auto's either butters, sorry to tell ya that but If i ever do Ill send ya a pm.

Feldy

Feldmeister said:

Thanks for sharing the information 420 I appreciate it

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No problem, man. This is a learning experience for all of us...

UPDATE 04/07

Day 5

So it's the end of day five. Today was a hectic day in the grow room.

Everything was fine this morning when I checked 'em, but at around 6pm I just had an instinctual feeling to check on them (I usually check in the morning, midday, and before they go to bed). I didn't realize how much water these fuckers soak up. And also how much evaporates. When I checked them, one of the AK sprouts was looking pretty damn sad. I checked the rockwool and it was completely dry! So I checked the water level in both reservoirs and realized the water level had gone down about an inch throughout the day.

I had no pHed/dechlorized water ready! So I thought on my feet. I grabbed an extra res, filled it with steaming hot water from my tub, dropped in a couple dechlorinization solution drops, filled it with ice and frozen bottles, and stuck it in the fridge for about 20 minutes. When the water was cool I pHed it and switched it into the grow room. I did the same for the Purple Lady. Hopefully the little sprout will be fine.

I did a lot of work on the room after that. I renovated my lighting structures to make adjusting the lights easier. I also tidied up a bit and organized everything so it looks nice and neat and easily accessible.

I just put them to bed, and forgot to take pictures, so I'll post them tomorrow when I wake up.

Cross your fuckin fingers for that AK sprout!

Thanks for checkin in!

Update 04/08

So the little sprout hasn't improved at all since last night, but it isn't looking worse, either.

The pH had fluctuated a bit in each res, so I got it back to 6.

Took some pictures of the new setup, check them out. The little dying sprout is the closeup (Pic 3).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edit:

Update 04/08

Day 6

Alright, I just put the little ones to bed. Their lights out time is in a half hour. The troublemaking little sprout seems to be showing a little fight after the day's worth of sunlight. We'll see how it turns out overnight.

I upgraded the lights a bit. I picked up some more y adapters and made the fixtures symmetrical... I'm OCD, so what? So I now have 4 23w CFLs and 2 26w CFLs hung evenly over each res. For now they aren't separated, so there's actually a total of 8 23w CFLs and 4 26w CFLs in the grow area.

There has been tremendous root growth in 4 of the 6 AK sprouts, and it has been decent in the remaining two, one of which is the sad lookin one. Even its root is stickin out of the rockwool, so that's good.

The Purple Lady sprouted nicely, and is waving hello to the world, reaching to the sky. Not a shitload of root growth, but she started germing a day later than the AKs, so it's understandable.

Not much to take pictures of... Ooh, made a ghetto-ass mylar wannabe reflecto-wall today out of some metallic wrapping paper I had my wife pick up at the dollar store. It seems to work just fine, and doesn't wrinkle much at all. It was a bitch to put up, though. Anyways, I'm gonna go smoke this joint, so good night guys and gals. Any comments/tips/gripes/moans are welcome. Light up, kids.

I hope the little runt pulls through man, pretty crazy to hear about that water dinkage going on by those little ones

Feldmeister said:

I hope the little runt pulls through man, pretty crazy to hear about that water dinkage going on by those little ones

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Thanks, man, but it isn't lookin any better.

Update 04/09

Day 7

The little bastard recruited another sprout to join in on the rebellion. I don't understand what the problem is. They were both on outside corners originally, so lighting comes to mind, but there's plenty of light everywhere. They seemed dried out, so I've been misting them every couple of hours with a spray bottle with pHed water. I moved them to the center locations to try and give them more light, but it didn't seem to do much.

As far as the water drinkage, it was over a couple of days, I just failed to realize it. Oh well, lesson learned. The root growth in the AKs is ridiculous. It seems like as seedlings, they concentrate more on growing their roots first, rather than the foliage. Four of the six have some pretty awesome roots, the only two without being the little runts. Hopefully the stronger ones will be female. It would suck SO MUCH ass if they turned out male.

The Purple Lady is still looking good, but not tremendous root growth. Her roots aren't coming out of the net pot yet, but her foliage looks good.

I've been wondering about nutes... Tomorrow will be their first res change, as it will be one week of growth. Should I start nutes now or when the second node comes in? I've read some people say 1 week, some say 2 or 3 nodes. Which should I go with? I'm only gonna go 1/4 strength for now, either way.

Not really anything to take pictures of. I'll take some pics of the roots in the morning. They're about to go to bed.

Once again, thanks for checkin in, and any help at all is most welcome.

Edit: Pics up, morning of day 8...

The first 3 are the AKs, as you can see, the runts are in the middle. 4th pic is of the AKs roots. 5 and 6 are the Purple Lady. The root is a bit hard to see in 6, but it's there. Just tiny.

*bump*

So what should I do for the runts?

And did I make a good decision by waiting until next week to give them nutes?

4204l1f3 said:

*bump*

So what should I do for the runts?

And did I make a good decision by waiting until next week to give them nutes?

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How is the heat and humidity in your room doing? If they look like they're drying up, maybe try increasing the humidity another 5-10 points or so. I agree that it definately shouldn't be a lighting problem with what you've got in there. Maybe the lights are just drying the leaves out a bit? Can't really tell from the pics. Or, maybe just get some clear plastic cups, rinse them with ph'd water, and cover those particular seedlings that are struggling (should increase humidity for just them).

As for the nutes. Yeah, you made the right decision holding off for week 1. Everything I read says that these guys don't use much nutes and are very easy to nute burn in the early going. One piece of advice that I got from a previous thread with nutes in the early going is to start really really small and gradually (every other day or so) increase the nute strength. Apparantly most of the early nute burn issues are a result of going too high from the onset. 1/4 strength sounds reasonable enough although it may be easier to start even lower than that at first as it's always easier to get more nutes in than it is to take them out. You using a combination of vegging and flowering nutes in your mix, or just vegging nutes? I'm not sure which would be better at this very early stage. They need to make a special "sprout juice" or something cause I'm having similar issues as you are.

Hope those little one's pull through. Supposed to be a pretty resiliant strain so hopefully they can do most of the work themselves. Good luck and keep us posted. On the bright side, those roots look incredible given the size of the sprout. They certainly grow down before they start growing up. Mine have been the same way.

(Butters) said:

How is the heat and humidity in your room doing? If they look like they're drying up, maybe try increasing the humidity another 5-10 points or so. I agree that it definately shouldn't be a lighting problem with what you've got in there. Maybe the lights are just drying the leaves out a bit? Can't really tell from the pics. Or, maybe just get some clear plastic cups, rinse them with ph'd water, and cover those particular seedlings that are struggling (should increase humidity for just them).

As for the nutes. Yeah, you made the right decision holding off for week 1. Everything I read says that these guys don't use much nutes and are very easy to nute burn in the early going. One piece of advice that I got from a previous thread with nutes in the early going is to start really really small and gradually (every other day or so) increase the nute strength. Apparantly most of the early nute burn issues are a result of going too high from the onset. 1/4 strength sounds reasonable enough although it may be easier to start even lower than that at first as it's always easier to get more nutes in than it is to take them out. You using a combination of vegging and flowering nutes in your mix, or just vegging nutes? I'm not sure which would be better at this very early stage. They need to make a special "sprout juice" or something cause I'm having similar issues as you are.

Hope those little one's pull through. Supposed to be a pretty resiliant strain so hopefully they can do most of the work themselves. Good luck and keep us posted. On the bright side, those roots look incredible given the size of the sprout. They certainly grow down before they start growing up. Mine have been the same way.

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Thanks for the advise, man... +Rep for you. I don't actually have any kind of plastic cup small enough to put there, but I found these clear glass candle holders I use as ashtrays now. I washed them out thoroughly, sprayed them down with pH water, and plopped them down on the runts' net pots. They fit perfectly, it's awesome.

The temp is getting a bit bothersome, it's around 85-90 during the day, but my thermometer is about 2 inches from one of the light fixtures. I didn't really know where to put it, or whether to measure the growroom heat or the heat the plants are experiencing.

My humidity is usually around 20-30%.

Let's see if it's not too late to save some lives.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to answer one of your questions. I'm using FoxFarm's nute trio, the Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom. The healthy seedlings are starting growth on their second node, so I should be starting their feeding next res change (next Friday).

Now it makes a little more sense. Those temps are too high (any ventilation in there? Fans?). The combo of that heat and the low humidity (get it up to 40%-60%). This isn't easy to do naturally so I bought a $25 humidifier from walmart and use it occasionally. With that heat and the very young age of those plants, they probably haven't developed the mechanisms to regulate heat. So, they stunt. Just one smallish fan should help quite a bit. Maybe increase the distance of those lights a little bit (stretching is a risk of course). As for the thermometer, try putting it in a different part of the room to get a better idea of actual room temp (wait 30 minutes and you can get an accurate reading). Then I'd probably try putting it right by the plants to see the heat they are experiencing. Above all, get that humidity up to at least 40% and they should recover nicely. If you can't do the whole humidifier thing, get cups of water and leave them out sitting underneath those lights. They'll evaporate slowly and raise the relative humidity.

(Butters) said:

Now it makes a little more sense. Those temps are too high (any ventilation in there? Fans?). The combo of that heat and the low humidity (get it up to 40%-60%). This isn't easy to do naturally so I bought a $25 humidifier from walmart and use it occasionally. With that heat and the very young age of those plants, they probably haven't developed the mechanisms to regulate heat. So, they stunt. Just one smallish fan should help quite a bit. Maybe increase the distance of those lights a little bit (stretching is a risk of course). As for the thermometer, try putting it in a different part of the room to get a better idea of actual room temp (wait 30 minutes and you can get an accurate reading). Then I'd probably try putting it right by the plants to see the heat they are experiencing. Above all, get that humidity up to at least 40% and they should recover nicely. If you can't do the whole humidifier thing, get cups of water and leave them out sitting underneath those lights. They'll evaporate slowly and raise the relative humidity.

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Awesome. Thanks for the info. I actually have 3 fans setup, but because of stealth, I have no exhaust. During the day, though, the doors to the room are usually open.

I'll try and get some moisture in the air and let you know how it works out.

The thermometer is right next to the lights now and it reads 90.

When it's a bit away (I've done this test, lol), the temp reads between 80-85.

Update 04/11

Beginning of day 9

I've tried everything I can think of to get the humidity up without buying a humidifier. I put bottles of water in there, I sprayed the reflecto-walls, and I threw in a wet t-shirt to evaporate. Nothing. 30%. Steady. Grrrr! Also, the humidity domes for the runts didn't work, but they have started growing roots out of the rockwool. I guess that means they're still kickin. We'll see what happpens.

Not much new, just more root growth.

I made what I thought would work as a ghetto AC, but I don't know if it's gonna work.

I took a bucket, filled it 1/3 with water, and stuck it in the freezer over night. This morning I took it out, fitted a fan on the top, and turned the fan on. I was hoping the ice would create some cold air, but I dunno if it's gonna work.

Real good sign that the roots are still growing. Lovin the ghetto AC idea too. When they get a little older they'll be able to handle those temps no prob. Another thing I thought of, watch the water temp in the dwc as well. It needs to be between 65-75 degrees F. I've even heard of people putting ice in the DWC rez to get the temp down in there. Apparantly it's root rot city if the temp is too high and having a dwc temp lower than your ambient temp should help the plant regulate any temp issues (suck up more cool water when feeling over heated...I do the same thing but with cold beer instead...haven't tried that with marijuana yet but now I'm thinking. Hmmmm).

I feel you with the humidity issue. Had the same thing my 1st grow. All the water and damp items would only budge it like a point at most. Here's a quick tip for a ghetto humidifyer. Get a big pot, boil water in it, and immediately put it in that room/closet and shut the door. Just leave it for a while. Repeat as necessary. You'll lose some of the humidity when the door opens but oh well. This worked for me for awhile but it does get tiring. No worries though. Once those roots hit the water it'll be smooth sailing.

(Butters) said:

Real good sign that the roots are still growing. Lovin the ghetto AC idea too. When they get a little older they'll be able to handle those temps no prob. Another thing I thought of, watch the water temp in the dwc as well. It needs to be between 65-75 degrees F. I've even heard of people putting ice in the DWC rez to get the temp down in there. Apparantly it's root rot city if the temp is too high and having a dwc temp lower than your ambient temp should help the plant regulate any temp issues (suck up more cool water when feeling over heated...I do the same thing but with cold beer instead...haven't tried that with marijuana yet but now I'm thinking. Hmmmm).

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Yeah, I've thought about that, but my res temps have been fine. It's weird.

(Butters) said:

I feel you with the humidity issue. Had the same thing my 1st grow. All the water and damp items would only budge it like a point at most. Here's a quick tip for a ghetto humidifyer. Get a big pot, boil water in it, and immediately put it in that room/closet and shut the door. Just leave it for a while. Repeat as necessary. You'll lose some of the humidity when the door opens but oh well. This worked for me for awhile but it does get tiring. No worries though. Once those roots hit the water it'll be smooth sailing.

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Fuckin A right man! Good idea with the pot of water. I'm definitely gonna try that shit. I'm just hopin they'll reach their stubborn asses down to the water...

Thanks again for the help, bro. You've been awesome.

Update 04/11

Day 9 from seed

Ok, so the pot of boiling water only worked for about 3 minutes at a time.

Root growth is amazing in the AKs. The stronger ones are working on their second leaf node.

The Purple Lady has also gotten her root down into the water, and is also working on her second node.

I left the runts in the DWC just in case they decide to get their act together, but I have two backup Auto AK seeds germinating in rockwool now.

Res Temps are good, Room temps are low-mid 80s, but Humidity is still stuck between 20-30%

If only the fuckin runts would stretch down to the water, I wouldn't have to worry about humidity.

Well, thanks for stoppin by. Comments are appreciated. Peace.

Update 04/12

Day 10

Bad news, gents and gems, the little ones had to be let go.

Those fuckin runts wouldn't grow. And they got completely dry with slimy, soggy roots.

And I do apologize ahead of time if I write anything ridiculous, as I am extremely high right now.

So I took out the two runts and replaced them with net pots full of hydroton. I have the two extra seeds germin' right now...

I reworked my room a bit again today. I replaced the Purple Lady's res with another tote like the one the AKs have. The top of this tote only has two holes, though, as I've got a Gigabud germin' with the AK seeds.

Everything's a bit neater and nicer, more organized. Whatev, man, it gives me a reason to get in there and give the kids some carbon dioxide.

Uhhhh... What else did I do? Oh yeah, the fuckin' humidity, man... I can't get it up. Damn, sounds like a personal problem... Anyways, I'm gonna buy a humidifier...

Oh, I also redid the light fixtures pretty hardcore. I'm like MacGuyver, man. I have 7 cfls on the AKs, and 5 on the Purple Lady. It'll be more as soon as I get my ass to home depot again.

Growth is bomb, seriously. Roots are incredible, and the leaves are growing mad quick. They're staying rather low, but the leaves are big and perky. Already on 2nd nodes.

I'll take some pics tomorrow after their beauty sleep.

Next projects are a deodorizor with ONA and soilmoist, and a couple fitted boards to put together as a sort of box in the wall, for added stealth. I wanna rig those up with some pc fans for exhaust, as well. Those are the plans for the next couple paychecks.

Alright, all... Time to spend some time with the Mrs... Be excellent to each other!

Sorry to hear about the runts boss. The whole stunting of growth must be a common theme with the autoflowering strains cause I'm having similar issues. Wonder what was going on with the soggy/slimy roots?

Humidity is a bitch in general. The smaller the space the easier it is to keep and control so that grow box thing you plan on making should make it easier. Humidifier is the way to go. I probably run mine once every 2 weeks and only for a few hours (in a closet...in a room it takes a full tank from the humidifier).

The Gigabud is from G13 labs right? Heard it's similar to Big Bud but has a shorter flower time. Something like 6 weeks which is pretty sweet given the yield it gives. And those strains are supposed to grow like crazy so no worries about stunted sprouts.

If you're going to make a grow box, check out this link for a DIY carbon filter. Easy as hell, saves a boatload, and kills all odors
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/101248-best-diy-ez-walmart-carbon.html

Hope all goes well with the soon to be new AK hatchlings. With any luck they'll turn out to the the Barry Bonds of plants

Hey. Is that green dwc tote from Walmart? I just found that thing while I was there the other day and picked one up. I spend hours lightproofing my damn clear dwcs (all I could find before) with duct tape and paint and shit, and one day I'm in Walmart, look left, and there it is...a fully light-proof dwc in the perfect size. I just checked your 1st post again and think I see the same one. You had any algae problems at all in there? I covered a light bulb with that tote and nothing shined through. It's the bomb.

(Butters) said:

Sorry to hear about the runts boss. The whole stunting of growth must be a common theme with the autoflowering strains cause I'm having similar issues. Wonder what was going on with the soggy/slimy roots?

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I don't know what was with the roots, I'm pretty sure it was because the plants were already dead. I think they just dried up way too bad.

(Butters) said:

Humidity is a bitch in general. The smaller the space the easier it is to keep and control so that grow box thing you plan on making should make it easier. Humidifier is the way to go. I probably run mine once every 2 weeks and only for a few hours (in a closet...in a room it takes a full tank from the humidifier).

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I went and bought a humidifier from wackomart. Works awesome. I left it on all day yesterday because it was one of those cool mist humidifiers with a fan. An extra fan and a humidifier for like $25, but in one package! Humidity's up to 50% with temps chillin at 85, and res temps a good 65.

(Butters) said:

The Gigabud is from G13 labs right? Heard it's similar to Big Bud but has a shorter flower time. Something like 6 weeks which is pretty sweet given the yield it gives. And those strains are supposed to grow like crazy so no worries about stunted sprouts.

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Yeah, it's a free bean from Attitude. G13 Labs is correct, my friend. I'm not too worried about growth because I'm gonna be vegging it as long as I can with LST, and taking clones probably. I don't know yet, but I know for a fact I'll be doing LST with the two big girls.

(Butters) said:

If you're going to make a grow box, check out this link for a DIY carbon filter. Easy as hell, saves a boatload, and kills all odors
https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/101248-best-diy-ez-walmart-carbon.html

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Fuckin' Beautiful... Awesome link. Thanks a lot, man. I'll get on that as soon as I get my boards and fans.

(Butters) said:

Hope all goes well with the soon to be new AK hatchlings. With any luck they'll turn out to the the Barry Bonds of plants

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Thanks, man... All three germing seeds are about to poke out of the rockwool and moment. I can already see the horseshoe stems stickin out. Looks good.

(Butters) said:

Hey. Is that green dwc tote from Walmart? I just found that thing while I was there the other day and picked one up. I spend hours lightproofing my damn clear dwcs (all I could find before) with duct tape and paint and shit, and one day I'm in Walmart, look left, and there it is...a fully light-proof dwc in the perfect size. I just checked your 1st post again and think I see the same one. You had any algae problems at all in there? I covered a light bulb with that tote and nothing shined through. It's the bomb.

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Yup, like $3 and change at wackomart. It seems lightproof to me, and I know the green color will block out bacteria-growing light. If you look closely, though, the hinges for the handles have little holes in them. I haven't worried about this yet, as they're a bitch to get to, and my roots are all looking pearly white.

Thanks for all the info, bro. It looks like you stop by my journal as much as I do yours, lol. You should update that thing, by the way

Update 04/14

Day 12

Okay, so all 3 extra seeds are germinating perfectly. All the plants look great, really green with big leaves and big roots. I'll take pictures when I'm not so lazy.

I made some DIY reflectors with some foil tape and cardboard. I have two, each mounted to the power strips the light bulbs are on. I also foil taped the tops of my reservoirs, giving a little added reflection.

Bought a humidifier, works great. What's the ideal humidity for a grow space? I've read on and on about temps, but nobody seems to talk about humidity.

pH is staying around 6, but I have to adjust it a little every now and then.

Area temp - 85
Res temp - 65
Humidity - 50%
pH - 6

Also, just how reflective is foil tape? Will it cause hotspots?

It's weird, I covered up the doorway to the room with a temp sleeping bag (until I get more blackout or get the boards and exhaust... So now there's barely any exhaust, but they went all night just fine and 3 hours this morning with the lights on, no prob.

I have virtually no possibility for exhaust into that room, other than the cracks in the door. The temps don't go crazy, so is it ok that I have no exhaust?

When I build the quasi-cabs I'll be adding exhaust to them, but there still won't be any exhaust for the room. Is that ok?

Ok, I'll try to make it more comprehensible.

My grow space takes up about 1/3 of a closet, which is only about 4' high, but is walk-in. The only exhaust to this room is via the doors. I am getting more and more paranoid, so now I leave the doors closed and locked.

I'll post pictures when I'm not so lazy. Thanks for posting, butters. Seems like you're the only one who reads this, lol.. You've been a most triumphant help.

Peace, everybody! If ya got somethin on yo' mind, just drop it here, I don't care... I just want some replies, lol... This is my first time here.

Edit: I also bought a 42w cfl and threw it over the Purple lady. So here's the light layout:

Auto-AK47:

3x 26w cfl, 5x 23w cfl

Purple Lady/Gigabud (Soon):

1x 42w cfl, 2x 23w cfl, 2x 26w cfl.

Edit: PICS!!!

Pics 1-2 are the setup
Pic 3 is the germin' seeds
Pics 4-12 are the Auto AK47s
Pics 13-16 are the Purple Lady
Pic 17 is my thermometer with current temp/humidity

looking good man, real good!!