First Grow - Closets, 400w & 600w MH/HPS COME ON IN I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET!!!

Sup RIU. Name's Kronik and this is my first grow/grow journal.

I've been reading around these and other forums, gathering knowledge and asking questions for the past month or two, and I think I'm finally ready to begin. I have already ordered and received my 10 feminized Northern Lights seeds from Nirvana (amazing service btw - 4 days! ) and just started three on their germ about an hour ago - hence the post. The seeds shouldn't pop for a day or two, so in the mean time I'm gonna start up this journal just so I won't have to later. Normally I wouldn't like to be so public about my growing (don't worry, I'm medical), but I've decided to do this simply because it's my first god damn grow, and for all the research I've done - I'm still going to need a lot of help. There are too many specific questions to be asked and answered, and too much of a wealth of knowledge in the combined intellects of experienced, well-yielding growers for me to know everything I need to know right now. Also, I need some place to organize thoughts - my own and those of others - and I feel this would be the very best place to do that.

So it begins.

Set up
I don't have just one grow closet, but two. And both are in different locations. I did this simply because I don't have enough room at my house, and I have another friend who's also a med patient that I can trust not to steal my plants, provided I give him proper medical reimbursement. And yes, there will be differences between the two grows simply due to a difference in spacing. His closet is smaller than mine, so I will be using a 600w in mine and a 400w in his. The dimensions of my closet (that I am working with) are 3.5'x22"x6'. I know - dinky, lame, whatever. Shut up. It's all I have right now. I do, however, have a question though about this - even though a 600w is to be used in a 3.5'-4'x3.5'-4' area, can I still maximize the lighting to its full (or at least close to it's full) potential in the area I have? I will be growing between 4 and 6 plants in my closet, and 3 in his (the 3 currently germing are being germed for that purpose). Overall I'm looking to yield 12z's to a pound - tell me if this is unrealistic, because at .5g/watt I really don't think it is. I've taken into account the limited space and the most likely catastrophically shitty mistakes I will be making as an amateur. Also, another thing to point out that is important is as of right now we are just starting at my friend's place, not mine. I will be starting in a few weeks at my house and I will give you guys an update when that happens. So, just to put everything in perspective and show you what I'm working with, here's the list:

Lighting
1x 400w magnetic switchable ballast
1x 600w magnetic switchable ballast
1x 400w HPS bulb
1x 400w MH bulb
1x 600w HPS bulb
1x 600w MH bulb

Also important to note is I am using MAGNETIC ballasts, without air-cooled hoods. I'm definitely expecting to see them kick the heat up so I'm interested to see just how hot it'll get. I asked the dude at the hydro shop about this and I was told as long as the house is air conditioned and the door is open (more than just a crack) I should be fine on temperature. Let me know your thoughts on this. I'm going to try and keep the AC down to 76-78 but it can sometimes get as hot as 82. I've heard NL is a very temperature-resilient strain, but I'm still a lil bit worried about this. I know that lights gonna increase temps by at least 5 degrees.

Nutes
Fox Farm Grow Big
Fox Farm Big Bloom
Fox Farm Tiger Bloom
CALMAG (will buy a bit later on)

Just wanted to get the trio for now because, hell, it's all I can really afford. The solubles are expensive, man.

Soil
Fox Farm Ocean Forest
Perlite

These will be mixed half and half. I really don't want to shove anything else in there like peat moss, guano worm casings, coco etc. It's simply too much of a hassle and I really don't want to "try anything" right now if you know what I'm saying. I'm not looking to experiment with different mediums. I'm just looking to get through my first grow. Other methods and mediums will be tried later but for now I just want a simple and effective medium that is tried and true and will get the job done.

Few Questions About Germination
I did the paper towel method (2 under, 2 over the seeds) in a semi-deep plate wrapped in saran wrap and placed it in a cabinet in a room where it stays relatively cool, but not necessarily cold. I'm kind of worried with this method, though, because I'm not sure when to open the saran to give the seeds a breather and how often I need to do that. And considering I started them in the late afternoon, I will have to leave them in there overnight. Any advice on this? Will they be fine in there on their own? Idk just stressing I don't want seeds to not pop I gotta make every one of these count.

Anyway that's my general introduction. Can't wait to get goin with this grow.

Peace.
~Kronik

Just about to go to bed but if i read the dimensions correctly then ur working with at least 1 cab exactly the same size as mine. Im using a 400W MH for veg and 600W HPS for flower. Check my sig for journal. I'll giv this journal a read in the mornin nd hit u up. Subbed

Ight man. And when you get back tell me how many plants you plannin on workin with. Thanks for the sub.

EDIT: Fuck dude I'm reading your journal now.....You're like a SCROG genius. That one plant is probably the equivalent of having three or four others on a five week veg/8 week flower. Have fun with the 8-12z's you get off that fuckin bush.

Kronikkk said:

Ight man. And when you get back tell me how many plants you plannin on workin with. Thanks for the sub.

EDIT: Fuck dude I'm reading your journal now.....You're like a SCROG genius. That one plant is probably the equivalent of having three or four others on a five week veg/8 week flower. Have fun with the 8-12z's you get off that fuckin bush.

Click to expand...

Ha thanks man, but this is honestly the first time i'm attempting a proper SCROG, so if anything, i'm just a straight up genius! Haha. Yeh I was trying to explain this to my rents today, i could've grown 4 plants, vegged each 3 weeks, or done what ive actually done and vegged 1 plant for 12 weeks! The only advantage with what ive done is.... more tops i think, but thats not even why i grew mine like i have, i did it purely for the NUTS look it'll have.

Instead of doing something like what i'm doing now, i highly recommend you read through my last journal, where i grew 2 plants in the same space, 1 blue cheese and 1 sour diesel. I reckon you should do something like that, maximise ur yield given ur space using methods such as topping and LST'ing, without going completely over board like i have.

check it: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/426636-2nd-grow-1-barneys-farm.html

Beware of the heat. I'm a great example of what happens when it's too hot. I haven't lost anything yet but the plants do not like the higher temps of 85+. I would suggest doing your light cycles at night to save on AC.

Slivers said:

Beware of the heat. I'm a great example of what happens when it's too hot. I haven't lost anything yet but the plants do not like the higher temps of 85+. I would suggest doing your light cycles at night to save on AC.

Click to expand...

Good advice right there

Checked the seeds around 9AM this morning. Now here I am 22 hours after the beginning of germination getting kinda sketched. I haven't checked them again yet but it's weird I haven't even seen small roots coming out at the 16 hr mark.

Btw is it best to leave em alone or check em every so often (4-5 hours)? I don't want to disturb any sort of growing they're doing by bringing them into the light to check growth but I'm always eager to see their progress.

EDIT: Redid my germ research. 24-72 hrs, but can take over a week. my nerves are calmed.

Update
The seeds are fully germed. Got em in three pots on a tray with a plastic lid under a 200w 6400k cfl in "peat pots." Friend has his 400w ready whenever I am and the 600w shit is yet to be purchased but will be within the next few weeks from the hydro shop. Brightness is tremendous. It's resonating from the closet so I'm gonna need to go down to the store and get some mylar to reflect all of the leaks. I'm thinking of vegging them a bit in my closet maybe 1 or 2 weeks then moving it over to him since he's the one with the high-powered metal halide. In the mean time I'm gathering cash to get the 600w and begin my own grow within the coming weeks. Can't wait to see how these babies come out. Once they start popping there will definitely be some pics up.

So I'm a fuckin idiot. Accidentally flipped two of the bitches over in their peat pots cuz i was holdin the tray with one hand - fuckin stupid. Got em back on their feet tho, I think they're straight. Anyway, 2 have popped out of soil, and theres still one that continues to lag behind. Idk why. Hopin to see somethin from that lil one in the coming 24-48 hours. Still under a 200w cfl but today I copped a wall fan and off-white reflector paper from the hydro shop so WOOH! no more light leaks. The fan will be up hopefully by tomorrow if I can get my hands on some damn nails (I don't have power tools for the screws they gave me, just a hammer and my iron will).

Oh, and an update on the 400w grow closet we got goin at my friends place - everything's set up. Thing is tho, he told me only 3 pots would fit in there. I get over his house today and it's freakin bigger than mine is! So what I'm gonna do is, instead of moving the three girls I got goin now over to his place and do four or five in my closet, I'ma keep the three at mine and then germ 6 more for his closet. Funny shit - everything got switched around. Even though his closet is only 5'2 in height, I still think it'll yield nicely. We set up and turned on the metal halide today man and I gotta say - it was fuckin beautiful.

Oh and weird thing I gotta note - there was no ballast that came with his 400w. Just the fixture, which plugged into the power strip. There wasn't even an on/off button we had to use the on/off switch on the power strip to activate it. I'm kind of skeptical of this. Is the ballast like built into the fixture or something? Has anyone seen fixtures like this that did not require extraneous ballasts for a 400w? Cuz I swear to god man I'd believe there was a built-in ballast cuz that fixture was fuckin heavy compared to my 200w one. But I really hope he didn't just get sold a fixture that can't put out the wattage we got in it. I'll get back to you guys on the brand and model - idk why but I simply just didn't pay attention I was too into what we were doin at the time.

FIRST PICS COMIN TOMORROW WHEN THE THIRD PLANT WILL HOPEFULLY EMERGE FROM SOIL.


EDIT: Here's the 400w we're using that we got from the hydro shop http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134583

DAY 7 (Day 4 for the other 7)

Seedlings are looking great. Now I can't really do pics cuz my cell phone pics fucking SUCK but I'll try and get iphone pics later if I can borrow a friend's. However, I do have one pic for you guys. Yes it is a blurry, shitty cell phone pic, but it's important because it shows a concern I have with the seedlings. Their cotyledons (the rounded leaves that first show up along with a set of sharper-looking leaves at the beginning of veg) are folded up on some of the plants. I think about 5 or 6 (don't have em in front of me right now) don't have this problem, but a good 3 or 4 do and I'm kind of worried. I've tried googling but nothing came up except "curled fan leaves" which is not my problem. I dont think its a nute deficiency, its just growing weirdness. Also, since the cotyledons are still folded up, some of the plants are trying to grow through them but not breaking through the fold and as such, their new set of leaves is getting scrunched under the folded cotyledons. This is seriously worrying me because idk if this is supposed to happen in some plants or if it's normal and the leaves will eventually break through the fold and the cotyledons will eventually fold out like the others. Anyway I know this is sort of hard to picture the way I'm saying it so Ima attach a pic. Tell me what you guys think I'm about to do the first feeding and don't want any problems so this is important!

EDIT: pic kinda sucks so I'll explain. What is within the circle are the folded up cotyledons, which should be folded out, giving the plant four of its first leaves, total. However, you can only see two blade leaves, because the cotyledons are attached together (I don't know with what, it looks brown). Could it possibly with something from the seed? Anyway, what is inside that ball is a NEW set of leaves trying to get through but they cant and as such have been scrunched into a ball within the folded cotyledons!

Should I just manually break open the cotyledons at this point. I feel like the plant isnt going to be able to break through this itself it's too delicate! However I have heard people say "just let the plant grow itself. The least human interference the better." But sometimes human interference is necessary - flushing, feeding, topping, etc. I'm trying to figure out IF this is one of those times where I need to step in or if the plant is fine doing its own thing.

Thanks!

Kronikkk said:

DAY 7 (Day 4 for the other 7)

Seedlings are looking great. Now I can't really do pics cuz my cell phone pics fucking SUCK but I'll try and get iphone pics later if I can borrow a friend's. However, I do have one pic for you guys. Yes it is a blurry, shitty cell phone pic, but it's important because it shows a concern I have with the seedlings. Their cotyledons (the rounded leaves that first show up along with a set of sharper-looking leaves at the beginning of veg) are folded up on some of the plants. I think about 5 or 6 (don't have em in front of me right now) don't have this problem, but a good 3 or 4 do and I'm kind of worried. I've tried googling but nothing came up except "curled fan leaves" which is not my problem. I dont think its a nute deficiency, its just growing weirdness. Also, since the cotyledons are still folded up, some of the plants are trying to grow through them but not breaking through the fold and as such, their new set of leaves is getting scrunched under the folded cotyledons. This is seriously worrying me because idk if this is supposed to happen in some plants or if it's normal and the leaves will eventually break through the fold and the cotyledons will eventually fold out like the others. Anyway I know this is sort of hard to picture the way I'm saying it so Ima attach a pic. Tell me what you guys think I'm about to do the first feeding and don't want any problems so this is important!

Click to expand...

I warned you about heat problems, now you're seeing the symptoms. What are your temps? Did you consider moving to night cycle? Also, curling occurs in ALL leaves, not just fan leaves when the heat is on. The only reason I said anything before is because it's the end of summer and still a bit warm some places.

Good luck.

I just spent a good $300 approx (£140) in equip to get my temps down from 33C to 23C, check my journal to see what i did, maybe u cud get some ventilation ideas or something, or at least see what it takes to run a 600W in a small space and handle the temps.

Let us know what u decide to do cos u hav to do something!

In fact... u got any figures for ur temperatures?

I think you misunderstood. This is a problem with the cotyledons, NOT fan leaves/blade leaves. I don't even have fan leaves yet. The cotyledons are folded upward and have been since they popped out. However, instead of folding out to receive the light they have stayed folded on some of the plants, which I believe could be preventing new growth. I need to know if I should force them open so the plant can receive light and let its new set of leaves grow out or whether the plant will be able to do this itself and it's normal. Someone needs to tell me this. Highly doubt its an issue with temp I keep it relatively low hottest it gets in there is probably 85 but it can be as low as 75. It would only be on the higher end of that scale due to a fluke like me forgetting to turn on the AC for part of the day. But that's happened like once I think for the most part temps are fine.

EDIT: Pay attention guys! I'm not even using the MH/HPS yet! I got all ten plants under a 200w cfl I'm not stupid enough to try and run a 600w (and in a closet, no less) without ventilation! I'm even nervous about my friend's 400w because he does not have an air-cooled hood and idk how the fuck we're gonna vent his closet I'm hoping to get a shitton of fans in there or like a vornado 350cfm fan to just exhaust the shit out of it. But that's why I got all the plants at my place in the first place - I dont want them in 95 degree temps under an mh because we neglected ventilation. They need to be under a cfl right now until we get our ventilation straight. Mine should be fine Im getting an inline fan, carbon filter and ducting with an air-cooled hood but since he's already bought his (without air-cooling) how would you guys do it? I'm thinking cool tubes of course but what else? Should I just exhaust the shit out of it like said and would that be ok? I really want these temps to be ok at least until the next grow because hopefully by then we'll have a little more cash to get a new hood etc.

Hm I did some more research and I think it's part of the seed casing still on there. Hopefully it'll be gone within the next week but still, I'm sketched and it annoys me especially the fact that its scrunching up the fresh new leaves. Fucking seed casings.

But yo someone get back to me on the 400w ventilation thing. Cant get an air cooled hood right now so how should it go?

I discovered through my own journals people on this forum are fans of pictures, more than words.

Anyway that being said, if ur under CFL's then it really shouldn't be a heat issue. If your worried about the leaves opening up, i've found this is a slowish process. Between planting a germinated seed and getting to ur second set of fan leaves with 5 blades, it takes like a good 2 weeks at least in my experience, some strains are faster in veg than others. The bigger the plant gets the faster it grows, this is due to it SLOWLY starting off its root system more than anything else at the stage ur in, so be patient! There's really not that much u can fuck up at this stage to the best of my knowledge, just dont over water, try and make her grow her roots out in search for moist soil. If you see no growth in the next week then something is wrong i guess... but try biding ur time for now and giving her only plain water. She should start to pick up soon but the start is always the slowest process.

Edit:

Because i cant see any pictures of ur set up i can't really judge what kind of equip u'll need to ventilate ur space if ur using a 400W MH/HPS. If you look at my set up, i'll tell u what u dont really need to run a 400W in that space, then based on that u can decide what u might need.

An Air Cooled hood is borderline essential if you're working with a really small space, but a cool-tube might be enough to get away with it, so at the least, get a cooltube, at best, an air cooled reflector with rubber seals (my next upgrade).

To run an effective air cooled system, u need at least a 5" RVK or something similar that moves at least 250m3/hr. This is to ensure there is enough suction to suck away the heat as soon as its given off by the bulb (or as much as possible). How powerful a fan you need/size of fan really depends on your ducting, how long it is, how straight it is, how the airflow will be travelling through it (up or down).

I have an inline fan on one end of my reflector, you dont need this.

I have 2 6" fans, you''ll need these, air movement inside the cab is essential to prevent mould/humidity build up ect.

Intake fans - these aren't essential, as you could have a passive intake, created by using an extractor to suck out the air of the tent thereby sucking air in through any available gaps/holes to prevent the tent from imploding.

Anything else you want to know about ventilation just ask, i'll try and help but am by no means an expert on any of this! Just had a bit of experience in sorting mine out, lots of trial and error...