First grow - bag seed x8 - CFL - 4x4x4 cab or 3x3x3

organic soil and worm castings

molasses

those are the basics, you can do a compost and get really fancy with your tea's but all organic really is is using all natural methods to fertilize your plants opposed to liquid salt based chemical fertilizers.

they make water soluble organic fertilizers as well but im not really sure how "organic" they actually are. I heard on here that Epsoma makes good organic fertilizers but don't know for myself.

I think im going to take it out of the cab tonight, clean out a trash barel and give it 48 hours of dark then chop. I kinda want my my blueberry gum in flower so i can make room to transplant my 2 clones into a bigger container.

Noooo! Let the Hobbit live! It's a good hobbit and will give you her precious but you must be patient

How organic do you want to go Rad? Pure amendments? Bottled? Enough info to DIY or just follow a recipe?

Gastanker said:

Noooo! Let the Hobbit live! It's a good hobbit and will give you her precious but you must be patient

How organic do you want to go Rad? Pure amendments? Bottled? Enough info to DIY or just follow a recipe?

Click to expand...

dam you Gas for talking sensible......grrrrrr

i do need to figure out how to make some room in my veg cab as my 4 week old clones are getting sick of being in a solo cup and my clones from 2 weeks ago need to be planted so i can take fresh ones.

lol i would like all the information available! lol in essence yeah i guess a diy instructable or recipe would be awesome. i DO have a compost pile that i have been kind of keeping track of. the wife and i put all organic materials in a bin in the kitchen that i dump into a old pile of pine needles and other yard refuse that has been there forever. so basically i have a pile of dirt that i dig a hole into and put the stuff into. i dont turn it or anything, but it does seem to be working. i guess i do turn it when i add more stuff, but yeah i know it will need to sit for a couple weeks, be turned, and then sit again. anyway it is at the apartment we live in now and we are going to be moving soon as WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE we were looking at, so compost will have to be started over in a month or so anyway...

wait, 48 hours of darkness before chop? shit i didnt do that with the last one...why do we do this?

thank you sir! super excited about it...

Oops. I got stoned and just started to blabber type. This is just a brief intro but hopefully it helps and is understandable.

Intro to organics -

First off is the process of mineralization. Raw NPK sources are not directly absorbable by plants but must first be broken down into an ionic form before they will bind to soil particles and water allowing it to be taken up by the plant. Most organic amendments must undergo this process but there are a few exception – bat and bird guanos have already been broken down by the bacteria in the animals gut and are immediately water soluble and ready for uptake which is why they are often used in teas. Kelp meals are also partially water soluble. Most all of the meals must be broken down: bone meal, fish meal, alfalfa meal, cotton seed meal… as well as most all manures.

This being said, the real key to organics is to keep your soil healthy with bacteria and with the appropriate amount of plant available carbon so that the levels of nutrients you need are constantly being supplied via the process of mineralization. In order to have your nutrients release at the appropriate times you need to take into account how fast different forms of nutrients break down – for instance large granulated bone meal breaks down much more slowly than powdered bone meal, and although cotton seed meal and alfalfa meal both deliver the same nutes cotton seed generally breaks down much much slower…

So if you had a long outdoor grow you might amend it with the following:

1 part N bat guano
1 part N EWC
1 part N fish meal
1 part N alfalfa meal
1 part P bone meal finely powdered
1 part P bone meal coarsely ground
3 part K coarse kelp meal

The bat guano and EWC will be immediately available and kick start your veg but will be used up fast. The fish meal would take over the N supply once the other two petered out and would feed for slightly longer. The alfalfa meal releases much slower and will dribble N late in flower to make sure of no premature yellowing. 1/3 into the grow the fine bone meal would kick in as it breaks down slower than fish meal, and then would be followed up but the breakdown of the coarse bone meal for the rest of flower to supply your P. Kelp meal feeds K all throughout. If you were going with a short veg you might not include the alfalfa or fish meal as you wouldn't need the extra N... This is just to give you an example of the mindset when putting together a mix – don’t actually follow the above recipe

In addition to the soil amendments you can also add immediately available nutes in the form of teas. Bat guano teas are immediately available but you can also pre mineralize amendments like bone meal by actively brewing them in a highly aerated bacteria laden tea for several days to weeks – this would be similar to how they make bottled organic nutrient lines.

Many organic amendments also have special attributes. EWC have tons of beneficial bacteria, so does aquarium water. Kelp contains several things that increase root growth and increases general growth rates, alfalfa meal also has similar properties. Neem cake can deter some pests... The list is pretty endless.

If you are using outdoor soil things to consider are aeration, drainage, pH, and CEC (cation exchange capacity – this is the amount of electro negativity of the soil particles which allows the positively charges mineralized ions to bind and not be washed out). The best way to positively impact CEC, drainage, and aeration is to add organic matter in the form of compost. Compost also pumps your bacteria by providing plant available carbon which is used in the process of mineralization.

holy. shit.

just to reiterate, HOLY SHIT. gas man you are some sorta mad scientest/my best friend lol. thank you SO much for taking the time to write all that shit out for me. that is like EXACTLY the overview i needed to understand what organics really are and how they work. i probably wont start playing in organicsland until we move and i get the cabs re set up in their permanent new homes...

on another note, snipped the plant i had drying. and weighed. drumroll please!

so my first ever harvested plant yielded just slightly over one ounce of sticky beautiful buds! the wife has named it "sticky nicky" lol i almost died when she asked if she could name it. i was like sure its just an unknown anyway...lol. so i have one more plant that will be harvested soon, then i am breaking down the flower cab and getting things ready to move...yikes!

smoke report: it doesnt have the best smell yet, still very planty. however in just snipping and putting them into a jar overnight has already made it smell much nicer, like real weed! (im still a little in shock that all this actually worked and is paying off...) it is very sticky but dry enough to grind in my grinder. the taste is a little bland to be honest. it again did seem to get a little better since putting it in the jar. anyway the high is definitely cerebral and almost no couchlock like attributes, so far. i enjoy it immensely, although im sure i would even if i grew some downtown brown...lol. no it IS better than any weed i can buy right now. very pleased. wish i could send up a pic...maybe ill throw one up on google...maybe not. either way...time to test it out again! woohoo!

radeonDEUS said:

just to reiterate, HOLY SHIT. gas man you are some sorta mad scientest/my best friend lol. thank you SO much for taking the time to write all that shit out for me. that is like EXACTLY the overview i needed to understand what organics really are and how they work. i probably wont start playing in organicsland until we move and i get the cabs re set up in their permanent new homes...

on another note, snipped the plant i had drying. and weighed. drumroll please!

so my first ever harvested plant yielded just slightly over one ounce of sticky beautiful buds! the wife has named it "sticky nicky" lol i almost died when she asked if she could name it. i was like sure its just an unknown anyway...lol. so i have one more plant that will be harvested soon, then i am breaking down the flower cab and getting things ready to move...yikes!

smoke report: it doesnt have the best smell yet, still very planty. however in just snipping and putting them into a jar overnight has already made it smell much nicer, like real weed! (im still a little in shock that all this actually worked and is paying off...) it is very sticky but dry enough to grind in my grinder. the taste is a little bland to be honest. it again did seem to get a little better since putting it in the jar. anyway the high is definitely cerebral and almost no couchlock like attributes, so far. i enjoy it immensely, although im sure i would even if i grew some downtown brown...lol. no it IS better than any weed i can buy right now. very pleased. wish i could send up a pic...maybe ill throw one up on google...maybe not. either way...time to test it out again! woohoo!

Click to expand...

You finally harvested your first plant! Grats rad!
Would sure like to see some photos of those buds... =D

Woot woot! Isn't smoking home grown just that much better? Even when it's still a bit green I swear it's a ton more fun than smoking a bag of unknown grown by who know who. I also would love to see a pic or two

lol ok ok, i will see about creating a photobucket or something account, dont wana create another gmail account just for pics and dont wana host pics like that on my gmail...

anyways thanks guys! i am loving it. it is definitely an amazing feeling. oh and BTW they are starting to smell REALLY good already...lol after only one night there is a marked improvement, no more grassiness...pungent odors are starting to arise! muahahahaha!

anyway...on the rest of the clan...

lady number 2 is about ready. i have a couple questions though. last time i watered i did JUST water. it has been about a week now and shes not showing any deficiencies that i can tell at least, but have heard gas and matt mention molasses and water in like the last watering? is this true? would love more info about that, going to the grocery store tonight or tomorrow night and will pick up some bootstrap molasses or whatever you guys recommend. ALSO wondering about the darkness for 48 hours before you chop trick. clearly doing it isnt the problem, lol pretty self explanatory, but why do we do this?

the veg cab is starting to get kinda crazy. the first 2 clones i took are starting to look like MONSTERS. lol. i guess the name holds true, what is it called, monstercropping? taking clones from females in flower? lol thats what ALL my lil babies are and it shows! lol i will have to figure out a way to post some pics they are cool...anyway everyone is now in their bigger pots. i will start using way bigger pots once i move...

OH! the wife and i started our veggie garden! lol bout 9 diff types of typical veggies and a large sized 36 puck jiffy dome! got all the seeds sowed and it is germinating in front of me right now on the dining room table. cant wait to see these little puppies sprout!

I've heard crazy weird stories about molasses but here is the basics -

First off you want black strap molasses - this is NOT the stuff sold in supermarkets as blackstrap (although it will work to a lesser degree). True black strap molasses is gross, you would never ever eat it. Its what is left over when making sugar and store quality molasses and generally has much much much less sugars as they've all been stripped out and much much more of the good stuff - what makes it bitter. True blackstrap can be found at ag and feed stores for really cheap. My 5 gallon bucket cost me $20 which comes to like $0.50 a pound.

Ok, now what it does - Molasses has many micros, vitamins, metals and other trace elements that your plant can absorb. More importantly these micros and vitamins help encourage healthy beneficial in the soil - the same bacteria and fungi that mineralize your organic amendments making them available to your plants. Secondly, the sugars that are left in the blackstrap are a readily available form of carbon for which the beneficials eat. Bennies, although they turn N,P,K material into ionized forms, mostly eat available carbon - for every gram of nitrogen they need they must have 30-50 grams of carbon...

So in essence molasses does fairly little for the plant itself but does wonders for your soil which in turn will help your plant. I recommend feeding your soil molasses all through the grow - the notion that it's only beneficial at the ends is a bit silly imo, and the stories of plants directly absorbing sugar to make the plant sweet is a bit crazy.. Every burn sugar? It's gross - I don't know why anyone would want extra sugar in their buds.

The dark thing... I can't imagine anything being accomplished by the dark phase but all the same I've tried it. I noticed no difference between plants that went into a dark phase and those that did not.

as always, a veritable fountain of knowledge

smart guy gas. guess experience does help too...thanks again for all your sharing. i feel extremely lucky to have someone who not only HAS the info and self collected data, but who shares it without being a condescending dick or saying go google it. fucking love it man. i am going to back this thread up on my own network so i don't lose it, such a wealth of information!

i guess i won't be doing the molasses thing until i start organic, or should i go ahead and get some and add it to my MG food??

i have more organics questions too...since i already have soil I'm using for this particular part of this grow, the way i could go organic at THIS point would be brewing a tea. this seems to make the most sense. and since i am not doing any outdoor grows yet, i won't be changing my soil mixture...for now anyway. so i need liquid food that is organic.

It isn't going to hurt to use it now but if the MiracleGrow isn't their organic line but their chem line then the molasses won't have as much of an effect. It does still have some good micros and vitamins though.

I appreciate the compliment. I'm just into this stuff - it's my field of study and the best way to make sure you have it all down is to teach it to others.

lol awesome man. so cool. i may have to add another major.

anyways. can we discuss ingredients and methods for my first tea? i would like to be able to start feeding my babies home made organic teas. i will start amending the soil next time i have the opportunity to do so...

A tea for which stage of growth? How much would you like to brew and do you mind if it stinks? hehehe...

So kelp meal is only partially water soluble and alfalfa meal even less so but they both contain natural growth stimulants so I would include some of both of those in most all teas you brew. If you want a flowering tea add some high P bat or bird guano and if you need veg tea add some high N bat or bird guano. Stir, shake, or agitate via aeration and whallah tea you can use the very next day. I would highly highly suggest using aquarium water as it contains both low levels of N but much more importantly tons of beneficial bacteria. Fish mulm is fucking gold in my book. If you have no dirty fish water then you can substitute it for EWC.

If you want to make a more complicated tea that uses blood meal, bone meal, and all the other non water soluble amendments - or even if you just want to get 100% of the nutes out of kelp meal and bat guano (not 100% of guano is mineralized), then you will want to brew in bulk with lots of air for long periods and preferably a water heater if it's cold. Here you are essentially creating a really really dirty fish tank and waiting for it to naturally cycle. With the proper heat and air the benefitial bacteria will quickly multiply and mineralize pretty much everything in the mix as long as there is enough carbon available. Here is where molasses would really help as it's a great form of soluble carbon. Be prepared for this to STINK!!!.

it will be for the veg stage as once i chop my female down i am breaking the cab down for moving. i may not start making organics til i move. it sounds like it could be too complicated to get into at the present moment.

i would ideally like to brew enough to feed my plants when they need it. like per feeding. sounds like this is possible but not necessarily the most efficient. i don't care what it smells like as i can do it inside in the basement, or i can do it outside in the shed. pain in the ass but if necessary...just want to make the BEST food for my babies. i am REALLY into efficiency, so i don't care if i have to invest in a 500 gallon plastic tank to brew in...

You really might as well wait. Organics isn't complicated but it takes a bit more time in the beginning to get things set up. Once you're setup with your compost and tea and all the rest it becomes pretty simple to maintain. Love your enthusiasm with the 500g plastic container but you'll really only need like a 50g drum or even a 30g trash can (what I use most of the time), either an air pump or a water pump, and an aquarium heater. We'll get into that post move though.