First Grow - 3000w - Ebb & Gro - H&G - Sealed

KnowledgeSeeker said:

If I bring in free cold air from outside and exhaust hot air from the room at the same time as the AC is running it will not take nearly as long to bring the room temp down and it will be a lot cheaper.

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Building on this idea I'm thinking of trying the following:

Put the intake and exhaust on a thermostatically controlled outlet so that they only come on when it is cost efficient to bring outside air in. If it's 90 degrees outside i'd rather not bring that air in and try to cool it down. So the power from the cooling outlet of the CHHC-1 will split. One will go to the AC which will always be on. The other will go to a thermostatically controlled outlet that only supplies power to the intake and exhaust when the outside temp is below 70 degrees. Since I'm using a CO2 tank to supply the plants CO2, the outside air isn't required. And yes I will be running the lights at night.

You could get even fancier and use only outside air when it's cold outside with another thermostatically controlled outlet but I just working on the first step for now. I also like the idea of using both to bring the temp down quickly so the cooling period is shorter and the CO2 "marinate" period is longer.

Cons to this setup would be that if your air filter is attached to your exhaust the air inside the room would only be cleansed when the room temp reached a certain level. The room would have to be sealed very well to prevent odor leakage.

This is the thermostatically controlled outlet that I had in mind: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ranco Adjustable Digital Thermostat[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/controls.shtml

Does anyone have this setup already?

Thoughts on the concept?

mrduke said:

looks preety sweet but watch out for those white buckets, on my first round with the ebb&gro i added 4 white bucketsand they were by far the weekest plants, the light penitrates and grows algee in the bottom of those pretty quick. It doesnt seem to hit the roots but messes with the 1/2" or what ever that remains in the bottom of each bucket then F's your res.with algee water . I would at least duct tape the bottom 2-3" to stop the light.

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Per mrduke's suggestion i have painted the buckets and the res black. Thanks mrduke!

KnowledgeSeeker said:

I have read (minus the soil chapters) the following books:

Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor medical grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes.

The Cannabis grow bible by Greg Green

Grow Great Marijuana by Logan Edwards

Gardening indoors with Soil & Hydroponics by George F. Van Patten

If you don't have the Bible go get it now! It has the most information and is very helpful. I refer to it a lot since I'm still designing the setup and learning the ropes.

Gardening indoors has a lot of good general info about Hydroponic and Soil gardening and it was a great intro to hydroponics. I found it very useful.

The other too were very basic and I tend to question their credibility when they differ form the Bible or the Gardening indoors.

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So I was reading some info in both the Bible and Gardening indoors and the illustration looked really similar. I check the publisher on the Bible and turns out the Bible was published by Van Patten, the author of Gardening indoors. Hah!

Here's a couple pics of the tallest ladies during week 3. They are about 20" tall. These are OG K(r)ush.

greenpassion said:

Hey looks good , Thought i would share i have a CAP ebb & grow 48 bucket system in the flower room and i am just final flushing the first crop and learning that make sure you flush about every two weeks or the end flush will take like 3 res changes and in other words lots of BS they hold lots of nutes in the bottom of the buckets so i had to flush 3 times to drop the ppm low enough to harvest.

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the trick to only having to flush once is to raise all the bucket sites 3 or 4 inches off the ground in the drain cycle before you do the initial empty... than rather than fill the drum and cycle water thru... just take a 5 gallon pail and start at the buckets farthest away and start pouring water into them..... this gets all the remaining nutes out and back into the barrel and control box.

then drain the barrel and run a flush cycle if you want to flush the plants...or just change to your boom cycle

Maximum Yield said:

the trick to only having to flush once is to raise all the bucket sites 3 or 4 inches off the ground in the drain cycle before you do the initial empty... than rather than fill the drum and cycle water thru... just take a 5 gallon pail and start at the buckets farthest away and start pouring water into them..... this gets all the remaining nutes out and back into the barrel and control box.

then drain the barrel and run a flush cycle if you want to flush the plants...or just change to your boom cycle

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Ahhh! very nice! Thanks max yield. That makes total sense. Posting my journal and keeping it updated is paying off handsomely. I really appreciate your feedback. Good luck on your current grow.

So i was checking out the ladies and I noticed some white spots on the leaves of three of them. I inspected closer and I saw some really small bugs moving around on the bottom of the leaves. I don't have a magnifying glass so I'm assuming they are spider mites. The guys at the local hydro shop are always talking about customers coming in for spider mite solutions. I actually bought some floramite because i figured if everyone is getting them I should be prepared. So, I poured one gallon of water, corrected pH to 5.8, mixed in 1/4 teaspoon of floramite, and sprayed every single plant top and bottom with the mix. Unfortunately, i did this during lights on and I read later that you are supposed to do it with lights off so I turned the lights off during the normal lights on period so it wouldn't burn the plants. I also turned all the fans off to let the floramite mix sit on the leaves longer. I'm now waiting for the floramite to dry so I can turn the lights back on and hopefully not shock the plants too bad (please, please, please no hermaphrodites). Damn bugs.

KnowledgeSeeker said:

So I've decided to not do a sealed room. After doing more research and talking to more people who have been growing for a while it just doesn't make sense to me personally to do a sealed room.

Reason #1: Electricity. 2400w of lights is going to generate considerable heat. Even with only 2 600w lights running my AC runs for about 1/2 hour to bring the room temp down from 82 to 74. It then takes about 1/2 hour for the temp to get back up to 82. So if it's sealed my AC would be on for at least 6 hours a day. If I bring in free cold air from outside and exhaust hot air from the room at the same time as the AC is running it will not take nearly as long to bring the room temp down and it will be a lot cheaper.

Reason #2: the CHHC-1. The CHHC-1 will turn of the CO2 when the cooling period begins and will bring it back on when the cooling period ends so the CO2 is not trying to fill the room as it is exhausted. The other nice thing about the CHHC-1 is that it allows me to set my regulator to the highest setting because the on/off is controlled by the CHHC-1. So when the cooling period ends the CHHC-1 floods the room with a long blast to get CO2 levels back to where they should be very quickly.

The bottom line: CO2 is a lot cheaper than electricity. With a good controller you can make sure that the majority of the time your plants have as much CO2 as they can use.

Unfortunately I can't change the title of the thread but it is what it is....

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I was going to mention that, but I enjoy seeing other methods and like to see the result. With the 4 600's you've got, it sounds to me like all you really need is maybe a 10" Max Fan. It moves 1019 CFM, and used with a Phresh Carbon filter, you can get serious airflow provided you have a large enough passive intake. Btw, the Max Fan uses only 275 watts at it's peak. Sounds like you've done your homework though, and just need to work out some kinks. btw, that Sour Diesel will get really tall. don't be afraid to top or fim them early.

KnowledgeSeeker said:

So i was checking out the ladies and I noticed some white spots on the leaves of three of them. I inspected closer and I saw some really small bugs moving around on the bottom of the leaves. I don't have a magnifying glass so I'm assuming they are spider mites. The guys at the local hydro shop are always talking about customers coming in for spider mite solutions. I actually bought some floramite because i figured if everyone is getting them I should be prepared. So, I poured one gallon of water, corrected pH to 5.8, mixed in 1/4 teaspoon of floramite, and sprayed every single plant top and bottom with the mix. Unfortunately, i did this during lights on and I read later that you are supposed to do it with lights off so I turned the lights off during the normal lights on period so it wouldn't burn the plants. I also turned all the fans off to let the floramite mix sit on the leaves longer. I'm now waiting for the floramite to dry so I can turn the lights back on and hopefully not shock the plants too bad (please, please, please no hermaphrodites). Damn bugs.

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So i waited 3 hours and most of the floramite had dried up. I checked the bottom of the leaves and those little spider mite fuckers weren't moving anymore. Stay dead bitches!

Seeing as how most of the floramite was almost dry (and dumb ass had applied it during lights on) I turned on the fans back on, lifted the lights as high as possible, and turned them on for about 1/2 hour. After that all of the floramite mix had dried up so I lowered the lights and called it a day. I will apply another round of floramite in a week to make sure the mites that are in eggs right now will be murdered as well.

Mcgician said:

I was going to mention that, but I enjoy seeing other methods and like to see the result. With the 4 600's you've got, it sounds to me like all you really need is maybe a 10" Max Fan. It moves 1019 CFM, and used with a Phresh Carbon filter, you can get serious airflow provided you have a large enough passive intake. Btw, the Max Fan uses only 275 watts at it's peak. Sounds like you've done your homework though, and just need to work out some kinks. btw, that Sour Diesel will get really tall. don't be afraid to top or fim them early.

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Thx Mcgician. My local hydro shop carries CAN-filters not Phresh. Do you think they are equivalent?

Thanks for the Sour Diesel tip. Per your suggestion I fimmed the tallest ones today. They are about 14" tall. I'll fim the others when they get to that height too.

KnowledgeSeeker said:

Thx Mcgician. My local hydro shop carries CAN-filters not Phresh. Do you think they are equivalent?

Thanks for the Sour Diesel tip. Per your suggestion I fimmed the tallest ones today. They are about 14" tall. I'll fim the others when they get to that height too.

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Cool. Can't wait to see how they turn out. As far as the difference between the two filters, I sold my Can 66/RS8 filter combo after one run because I needed more airflow than it could provide. I opted for the Phresh filter (10' x 39") because I saw their setup at the SF hydro expo and talked to the reps for a while and got sold on the idea for two reasons. 1. The filters have a higher airflow capacity, and 2. they are about half the weight. Since I'm a solo operation, those were huge points. I don't know if you've ever had to hang one of those heavy carbon filters by yourself, but it's no easy chore. To get the same airflow I would've had to get the second heaviest Can Filter they make. I was like, Phuck That!

Mcgician said:

As far as the difference between the two filters, I sold my Can 66/RS8 filter combo after one run because I needed more airflow than it could provide. I opted for the Phresh filter (10' x 39") because I saw their setup at the SF hydro expo and talked to the reps for a while and got sold on the idea for two reasons. 1. The filters have a higher airflow capacity, and 2. they are about half the weight. Since I'm a solo operation, those were huge points. I don't know if you've ever had to hang one of those heavy carbon filters by yourself, but it's no easy chore.

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That's good info. I'm a solo op as well and getting a 50lb CO2 tank from the car to the grow room is quite a chore. I can imagine what hanging a CAN-75 would be like.

And higher CFM capacity filter = quicker air exchange = quicker cooling period = longer CO2 uptake period. Excellent!

The only drawback is that the carbon is (at this time) not replaceable. Phresh is using a special type and they don't have any re-fills. But for the increased performance I think it's worth it.

How big is your room? Is the filter you have now taking care of the all the odor? How often do you vent? Are you using CO2?

Mcgician said:

all you really need is maybe a 10" Max Fan. It moves 1019 CFM, and used with a Phresh Carbon filter, you can get serious airflow provided you have a large enough passive intake. Btw, the Max Fan uses only 275 watts at it's peak.

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Nice! I was pretty set on Vortex but your right. The Max Fan has dramatically lower power usage. The plan has been updated! 10" Max Fan it is.

So, the 20lb CO2 tank that I had lasted about 10 days running at about 1000 ppm. The room has holes that I have cut for the next installation of lights and venting. Even though I've covered the holes I'm sure that is contributing to CO2 loss. I was also running a single duct AC unit for most of those ten days which contributed to CO2 loss as well. Either way I decided that I didn't want to be refilling CO2 tanks very often so I upgraded to the 50lb tank. That fucker is heavy. I was able to get it from the car and into the room by rolling it on the bottom slightly tilted over. If you have an upstairs grow make sure you have someone to help you get the damn thing up the stairs (luckily I only have three stairs from the garage to the house.) At least I won't be doing that very often.

Some pics at the beginning of week 4.

The Grapefruit are easy to pick out. They are the yellow ones that aren't growing. I picked up some earth Juice Microblast and added it to the res to try and get them back to normal. I also foilar feed them with a diluted microblast mix. If that doesn't work then I'll probably try some Advanced Nutrients Revive.

The rest of them look pretty good. There are a couple of burnt leaves from not checking the height of the lights one day but other than that they are looking good.

I removed 1 grapefruit and 5 diesel from the tray a couple of days ago. I think the tray was too crowded and it was causing them to stretch and slowing growth. I picked the short ones, the thin stalk ones, and one that looked too stretchy (see pic 009).

Pic 004 is a batch on clones in rockwool that I've been working on. I had to top and trim the Flo because they were too stretchy and I figured i needed to practice cloning anyways. They are on day ten with no roots. They are from the top of the plant which I think is harder to clone because of less root hormones(?) and I haven't been watering them regularly. 3 out of about 25 have died so far. We'll see how it goes.

Hey looks great! ill be watching along. im a 2400 watt grower aswell. my room get hot real quick. trick is good air in/out BIG ass fans help.
i'm in coco slabs at the moment but have 20 30 lt buckets so was thinking of doing a hempy sytle bucket grow. (i think thats what they call it) 1 bucket in side another all hooked to res and drain back to res all bottom buckets have a air stone as about 1-2 inch of water will always be in there. Anyway question was did u use special paint for those plastic buckets. ? how did u make it stick? i painted mine but soon as they got wet it came off also if it was knocked it came off. The paint just would not stick. keep up the good work.

madazz

madazz said:

Hey looks great! ill be watching along. im a 2400 watt grower aswell. my room get hot real quick. trick is good air in/out BIG ass fans help.

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Thanks! Good tip. I see from your journal (nice job by the way!) that your room is 71 sqft. What CFM fans are you using for venting?

madazz said:

Anyway question was did u use special paint for those plastic buckets. ? how did u make it stick? i painted mine but soon as they got wet it came off also if it was knocked it came off. The paint just would not stick. keep up the good work.

madazz

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I bought a spray paint that says it's specifically made to bond to plastic. But, like yours, they get nicked and flake easily. If you find something better let me know.

Hey knowledgeseeker, I have a feeling the reason why your grapefruit diesels are more yellow than the other ones is that they're genetically disposed to be that way, hence, the name grapefruit diesel. Those plants look relatively happy, but having grown in rockwool cubes/slabs for many years, I can tell you right now, those ones in the small slabs are going to end up too closely positioned- especially given the strains you're growing. Will they eventually end up further spaced apart, or is that the final plant placement? Also, good luck with the whole Co2 gig. I gave up on Co2 a long while back. With enough fresh air circulation, I have yet to see much of a difference between the two methods myself. And yes, I used Co2 for many years. Like you, I got tired of filling tanks, and having to deal with the heat issues of a sealed room. With a sealed room, you need to cool not just the lights, but the room itself. In the end, TO ME, it wasn't worth the extra money I spent on additional electricity, running ducting, Co2 tank refills, humidity fluctuations, etc. Hope it all works out for you man, good luck.

Oh, and given that it's summertime, I'd be willing to bet that the bugs you're dealing with are thrips. Spider mites are horrible too, but I've found thrips just as irritating. Kill those fuckers asap! Azatrol is the best weapon I know of.

Mcgician said:

Hey knowledgeseeker, I have a feeling the reason why your grapefruit diesels are more yellow than the other ones is that they're genetically disposed to be that way, hence, the name grapefruit diesel. Those plants look relatively happy, but having grown in rockwool cubes/slabs for many years, I can tell you right now, those ones in the small slabs are going to end up too closely positioned- especially given the strains you're growing. Will they eventually end up further spaced apart, or is that the final plant placement? Also, good luck with the whole Co2 gig. I gave up on Co2 a long while back. With enough fresh air circulation, I have yet to see much of a difference between the two methods myself. And yes, I used Co2 for many years. Like you, I got tired of filling tanks, and having to deal with the heat issues of a sealed room. With a sealed room, you need to cool not just the lights, but the room itself. In the end, TO ME, it wasn't worth the extra money I spent on additional electricity, running ducting, Co2 tank refills, humidity fluctuations, etc. Hope it all works out for you man, good luck.

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Are you serious about not being able to see a difference with using co2 and not using it? It doesnt matter if you have 200% air circulation and fresh air coming in all the time... You cannot replace the use of co2 in a growing environment. It increases the speed of your growth period.... If you increase the speed of growth then you will get better results faster, Period... If plants grow faster then you will have a greater yield...

rbahadosingh said:

Are you serious about not being able to see a difference with using co2 and not using it? It doesnt matter if you have 200% air circulation and fresh air coming in all the time... You cannot replace the use of co2 in a growing environment. It increases the speed of your growth period.... If you increase the speed of growth then you will get better results faster, Period... If plants grow faster then you will have a greater yield...

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Did you see my quote in its entirety? Notice I said TO ME. Yes, I've had good results with Co2 as well, but in the end, it didn't offset all the other expenses and other needs in order to use it. In particular, humidity was a huge issue. If you feel it's worth it to use an AC or dehumidifier constantly during the "fill" cycles for Co2 then go right ahead. TO ME, it ended up a wash economically.