FIM Tutorial (taking the guesswork out)

Uncle Ben said:

Exactly. This growing thingie should be all about botany. Unfortunately it comes down to gimmicks alot of time. Cutting new fan leaves won't do squat except remove leaves, your most important plant unit of which all tissue is predicated upon.

Where's the beef?

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I think one of the big problems in our hobby is a lack of standards, e.g., standard bolt and nut sizes, terminology, etc. Having to do this behind closed doors removes a lot of the scientific process as well by making it harder to share information.

We are the beginning of a new age with all of the information available on the net now. So things are looking up if you ask me.

And on a side note...

GC, great thread! Here's some virtual +rep! (can't rep ya again yet)

diggitydank420 said:

I think one of the big problems in our hobby is a lack of standards, e.g., standard bolt and nut sizes, terminology, etc. Having to do this behind closed doors removes a lot of the scientific process as well by making it harder to share information.

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Botany has always been standard. It's the grower that's always the "problem".

It boils down to people understanding plant anatomy and what makes a plant tick. You don't go cutting on a plant unless you fully understand what the plant's reaction will be, which is largely determined by hormonal responses, location of dormant buds, etc.

Again, cutting off the tip of a leave will do nothing more than well, cut off the tip of a leaf. Topping (pinching) it above the 2nd node will induce a hormonal response such that the dormant foliar bud residing in the axis of where the leaf petiole attaches to the "trunk" is stimulated to grow.

Now, if anyone can prove to me that dormant buds reside around the perimeter of a node and that by cutting thru the middle of that node you get a response of foliar output, I might buy the FIM hype. Until then, I'll consider it what it is, more cannabis forum voodoo.

UB

Hey GC, great thread, very informative.

I'm a little perplexed at how much attention you're giving to NOT cutting off the fan leaves and only the growing tip. While I understand the importance of leaves, I fail to see how snipping off the tip of a couple leaves while fimming will cause any real problems/deficiencies. For example, your pic on the first page shows where you "incorrectly" fimmed, and there are a couple wonky looking leaves. Is it really such a problem for two leaves to lose their tips? If you're forcing the plant to produce new "tops" won't there be PLENTY of leaves once they get going? And aren't there PLENTY of leaves left to keep the plant healthy, considering the amount of leaf material removed is VERY small?

As I said, I understand the importance of leaves to a healthy plant. It just seems like the amount of plant material saved by ONLY cutting the apical tip is pretty minimal, especially considering how much plant material is lost when topping.

Either way, it's a good thread! +rep

Green Cross said:

This Tutorial will attempt to explain FIM
This is a good graphical image, but again, where it says "FIMM cut location" is NOT where you want to cut! First you want to gently spread the tiny "new set of fan leaves" out of the way, find the actual growing tip, and then make then nip it out. Only then can you be sure you are pruning out the growing tip, while at the same time preserving the surrounding growth.

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Unless I'm blind, (a distinct possibility at my age) the FIM cutting position is above a node, not through it, so, it is nothing more than topping to induce foliar output as I described in the previous post.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Unless I'm blind, (a distinct possibility at my age) the FIM cutting position is above a node, not through it, so, it is nothing more than topping to induce foliar output as I described in the previous post.

UB

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Yep it's just topping - basically removing the uppermost growing tip, while leaving the uppermost node, but these parts aren't visible unless you do a little digging into - separating the new growth - the growing shoot.

DoeEyed said:

Great stuff! I tried FIMming my last two batches, and out of a total of 26 plants, ony actually succeeded with 3. I have one question - after the new growth is parted and you have isolated the growing tip, do you then cut 80% of it off ? Or remove it entirely? Wait one other question, at what point do those tiny fan leaves become leaves and not part of the tip still? Thanks!

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Hi DoeEyed, you want to remove the entire growing tip (bud).

I'll have to update the pics of the ones I did because there's really nice natural branching on them now. The tiny fan leaves are just that, fan leaves. The growing tip (bud) - is the nipped part sitting on the coin in the photo. FIM Tutorial (taking the guesswork out)

For multiple (7+) tops just tie the FiMMed top down, after you cut it. I'm going to add your questions to this tutorial... Thanks for asking!

Jerry Garcia said:

Hey GC, great thread, very informative.

I'm a little perplexed at how much attention you're giving to NOT cutting off the fan leaves and only the growing tip. While I understand the importance of leaves, I fail to see how snipping off the tip of a couple leaves while fimming will cause any real problems/deficiencies. For example, your pic on the first page shows where you "incorrectly" fimmed, and there are a couple wonky looking leaves. Is it really such a problem for two leaves to lose their tips? If you're forcing the plant to produce new "tops" won't there be PLENTY of leaves once they get going? And aren't there PLENTY of leaves left to keep the plant healthy, considering the amount of leaf material removed is VERY small?

As I said, I understand the importance of leaves to a healthy plant. It just seems like the amount of plant material saved by ONLY cutting the apical tip is pretty minimal, especially considering how much plant material is lost when topping.

Either way, it's a good thread! +rep

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Well not only do you not damage your fan leaves, but you actually do not miss when FIMMING. Remember FIM stands for "F*ck I missed!" Nobody wants to f*ckup their plant attempting to top it, only to find later that all you did was damage the precious fan leaves.

This is the main reason for this tutorial... FIM - described as removing 80% of the growing tip, it a flawed concept.

Thank sooo mcuh gc

Green Cross said:

Yep it's just topping - basically removing the uppermost growing tip, while leaving the uppermost node, but these parts aren't visible unless you do a little digging into - separating the new growth - the growing shoot.

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When topping, you just cut anywhere between two nodes which terminates the dormant leader, stimulates the redirection of auxins, which fires up dormant foliar buds. Nothing complicated, no need to part leaves or cut off tips. I'm not being difficult, but since we have alot of noobs here, the title of your thread is misleading my friend. Let me explain....

FIM as described back in the days of CW was to cut about halfway thru a node, horizontally. The idea being to stimulate dormant buds supposedly located in the perimeter of the node of cannabis. I never bought off on the concept as being very reliable or factual, but I do know that buried nodes on say, grapevines can and will produce roots. Bottom line, Old school FIMming should produce at least 8 outputs, sometimes up to 12 according to folks that give it any credibility from just below the severed area in the node, not the internode.

Here's a long thread on FIMMING which is also rather confusing. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/13820-fimming-topping-101-a.html

BTW, does anyone have any internet references regarding FIM? Are commercial nurserymen, farmers, universities using the technique, whatever it may be?

Good luck,
UB

More results


Here's the runt. You can hardly tell where it was topped, no leaf damage, and no miss. The uppermost top could be fimmed again, or LSTed with a twist-tie, to control height, and create even more branching

Uncle Ben said:

When topping, you just cut anywhere between two nodes which terminates the dormant leader, stimulates the redirection of auxins, which fires up dormant foliar buds. Nothing complicated, no need to part leaves or cut off tips. I'm not being difficult, but since we have alot of noobs here, the title of your thread is misleading my friend. Let me explain....

FIM as described back in the days of CW was to cut about halfway thru a node, horizontally. The idea being to stimulate dormant buds supposedly located in the perimeter of the node of cannabis. I never bought off on the concept as being very reliable or factual, but I do know that buried nodes on say, grapevines can and will produce roots. Bottom line, Old school FIMming should produce at least 8 outputs, sometimes up to 12 according to folks that give it any credibility from just below the severed area in the node, not the internode.

Here's a long thread on FIMMING which is also rather confusing. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/13820-fimming-topping-101-a.html

BTW, does anyone have any internet references regarding FIM? Are commercial nurserymen, farmers, universities using the technique, whatever it may be?

Good luck,
UB

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Let me explain the reason the thread is named "FIM taking the guesswork out".

FIM is nothing more than a half-assed way of pinching/topping; it's a technique that's been around for thousands of years, but a few years ago, some newb thought he had reinvented the wheel, and he convinced a few folks that if they were to cut 80% of the growing tip off...they'll get 8-12 or more tops lol (something even you apparently still believe)...where are these folks who you claim got such great results FIMMING? Rumour spread, and many plants were mutilated, for no other reason than an urban legend. What does FIM stand for? Research it.

There's no mystery to it; Topping or LST simply cause the plant to bush, by redistributing plant auxin.

And for your information:
Topping does not need to be performed between 2 nodes as you claim.
See "Marijuana Botany and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis" page 43 "auxin is produced in the meristem" There's nothing wrong with topping between 2 nodes, but all that's necessary to redistribute the auxin is to remove the growing tip.

Thanks for all the sharp photos.

I think I'll be trying GC's suggestion of tweezers next time, instead of scissors.

Green Cross said:

And for your information:
Topping does not need to be performed between 2 nodes as you claim.
See "Marijuana Botany and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis" page 43 "auxin is produced in the meristem" There's nothing wrong with topping between 2 nodes, but all that's necessary to redistribute the auxin is to remove the growing tip.

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I guess we're splitting hairs here. By cutting between two nodes, you are removing the growing tip aka meristem tissue, plus it's alot easier. Again, refer back to my comments when this was discussed at CW (and other sites) regarding the agreement or disagreements of where to make the actual cut.

I'm a commercial farmer of thousands of plants, and if I'm going to top, I'm just going to grab a pair of hand pruners and make a cut above a node, location dependent on how I want the final profile. By the same token, I'm also able to re-establish a central terminal leader thru certain pruning/training points.

BTW, I'm not knocking your thread or trying to hijack it. You've done a very nice job with photos and all. What I'm knocking is FIM as cannabis forum paradigm that is mired in hype, romance, intrigue with little to no real world value.

You've probably seen my topping to get 2 or 4 main colas thread. Admin has somehow fouled up the original post by first deleting the photos and adding multiple photos and photos that should not be there and were elsewhere, but that's neither here nor there. The fact that I'm not able to edit sucks. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get.html

Good luck,
UB

Here's a pic of the runt clone ,which was topped a couple weeks back, and re-topped over the weekend. The results speak for themselves - very natural looking branching rather than butchered fan leaves, or scarred stems.


Closeup of the area where we made the cut shows no scaring


Same plant re-topped, and more updates to follow


Topping/Pinching/FIM/ - whatever you want to call it - the desired results are the same, increased branching, and height control.

who cares i seen a dude fim his buds looked amazing uncle ben you like topping cool some ppl like to fim.
thats cool to. sow the seed smoke the weed peace.

topping is cool to but me being a gardener of about 3 months. I understand fimming better than topping

if topping was expalined better on how to get 4 colas i would do that but i dnt understand

Remember this plant which was re-fimmed (correctly) and then the FIMMED top was LSTed with 1 twist tie? 9 tops easy

Here she is just after her top was pinched, and then tied down (more on that in a minute)


Here are the results - and to the hater above if you're looking for multiple tops why limit yourself to just 4?


This pic shows where the FIMMED top was tied down (LSTed)


Here is the easy way to LST - just anchor your LSTed top to the main stem, no need to drill holes and run screws all the way around your containers lol


This is the best, and easiest, combination of techniques - I know of - for keeping plant height down, while encouraging branching

Any questions? feel free to PM me, because I don't visit this thread very often.

Green Cross said:

Here's a pic of the runt clone ,which was topped a couple weeks back, and re-topped over the weekend. The results speak for themselves - very natural looking branching rather than butchered fan leaves, and scarred stems.

Closeup of the area where we made the cut shows no scaring

Same plant re-topped, and more updates to follow

Topping/Pinching/FIM/ - whatever you want to call it - the desired results are the same, increased branching, and height control.

Click to expand...

Updated: Here we are a week later - 3 new tops on one side


and 2 new tops on the other


, but the number of tops created is only secondary to the natural branching this pinching technique achieves.

As you can see in the pics; by using this technique, you usually don't lose the dominant main top cola, you only add a lot of natural looking branching, and 1 or 2 secondary top colas, rather than 2 or 4 equal tops that look about the same.

After trying all other topping/fimming methods I prefer this one, and I'll be using this technique exclusively, on a future K-train grow - near the 1st of the year - you'll find my grow in my sig.

Thank you for posting this as it was extremely helpful in clarifying the FIM technique. I'm a new grower and I attempted to FIM a couple of weeks ago. I apparently did it wrong as I cut the fan leaves like you pointed out which was a mistake. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to help out noobs like myself.

Awesome tutorial, i was wondering though how old does the plant have to be. Would a plant thats like 3 weeks old be able to be FIMed if the growth top is visible? Thanx

Very very useful thread. Thank you

Topping is where you bend the tops to control height to a 45 angle?