Feminized vs. Regular seed show down in High Times

dgaf757

dgaf757

Active Member
So I know im not the only one thats seen the fem vs. reg seed batle rage. So i had to repost this high times article, the very first in a magazine to put reg vs. fem to the test.

I still stand behind fem.edit:plus they yield better with less stretching, in the case of AK47
http://hightimes.com/grow/ht_admin/8129
 
tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
The battle is not that they produce bad plants. It is that by feminizing, the breeder increases the chance of passing down the hermie trait. Fem seeds don't automatically hermie but they have a higher chance to cause of the nature and what is being done to achieve it... it takes away from the genetic stability and integrity of the strain. As long as the seeds don't hermie they should be a very similar to the parent... which in theory should be the best picked out of the regs. Fems could and should be the best chance for the ultimate or elite pheno without the need to stabilize it with time. But the downside is the potential to loose a whole crop due to bad genetics...even if everything is ideal and perfect.
 
vilify

vilify

Well-Known Member
impossible comparison on a small scale. compare 1 fem to 1 reg all you want.
pheno/geno differences give you the difference in yield/stretch not being a fem.
 
dgaf757

dgaf757

Active Member
look you can shoot the messenger, and discredit what they did...but it is High Times, and they did take a completely scientific approach.

vilify-so youre telling me that all 17 seeds produced 17different phenos...no seeds that are fem are a replica of a shorter, heavier yielding plant. the regulars are from genetics that naturally just stretch more. the fems were from a heavier, shorter breeding stock. and just like high times showed, in this case the fems didnt herm and were stronger and heavier.

...and now i bet people try to discredit high times because they dont agree with the findings.

edit:tags-youre absolutely right. its dependent on the genetics locked in seed, and yes fems do tend to hermie more often...but if its a good batch like most are, they produced shorter stalkier heavier plants. i see what you mean, if theyre bad fems, youre screwed, but its worth the gamble to me for coveted genetics.
 
racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
tags420 said:
The battle is not that they produce bad plants. It is that by feminizing, the breeder increases the chance of passing down the hermie trait. Fem seeds don't automatically hermie but they have a higher chance to cause of the nature and what is being done to achieve it... it takes away from the genetic stability and integrity of the strain. As long as the seeds don't hermie they should be a very similar to the parent... which in theory should be the best picked out of the regs. Fems could and should be the best chance for the ultimate or elite pheno without the need to stabilize it with time. But the downside is the potential to loose a whole crop due to bad genetics...even if everything is ideal and perfect.
Click to expand...
totally untrue info m8...
fem seeds are no more likely to hermie then regular seeds... the processes of making fem'ed seeds doesn't induce any hermie traits in the plants, unless the plants already had a hermie trait present to begin with, in which case, breeders shouldn't really be using that strain to do any sort of breeding with, whether it be reg's or fem's imvho...

making fem'ed seeds, breeders use a chemical to induce male flowers to grow on an otherwise normal female plant.. it's only the chemical that makes the plants grow male stamen.. take away the chemical, the plant would never grow balls...
it's pretty much the same procedure that a person getting ready to get a sex change operation goes through.. a male would take female estrogen, and as a result the male would start to develop breasts, have a higher voice, and less body hair.. it's only the chemical causing these things.. stop taking the estrogen, and the man boobs disappear, the voice gets deeper, and body hair returns...

we wouldn't think that a man taking estrogen, if he had kids, the kids would then be hermies, as we all know that's not how nature works.. it's the same thing with plants.. there is no hermie trait present in true breeding female plants used to make fem seeds, it's only the chemical used that makes the plant throw balls.. take away the chem, no balls.. so long as you don't spray the offspring with the same chems that you used on it's mom / dad, the plants won't grow balls either.. :D
 
skunkd0c

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
i have never been a fan of fem seeds mainly because of the price they are sold for
i am well aware of all the negative reasons why fem seeds are disliked by many growers and breeders

but on a positive note, fem seeds can produce plants that are closer to the intended phenotype that the strain is supposed to represent, this shouldn't be the case, i guess many breeders just do not stabilize their creations and we get many different phenotypes

2 versions one fem one regular of the same strain from the same breeder, it is possible that the fem version could produce phenotypes that are closer
to the original selected mother, especially if its s1,
i do think fems are interesting , its unfortunate many of the breeders are not taking the time to do it the best possible way
but are just cashing in, this results in more hemi problems

peace
 
skunkd0c

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
racerboy71 said:
totally untrue info m8...
fem seeds are no more likely to hermie then regular seeds... the processes of making fem'ed seeds doesn't induce any hermie traits in the plants, unless the plants already had a hermie trait present to begin with, in which case, breeders shouldn't really be using that strain to do any sort of breeding with, whether it be reg's or fem's imvho...

making fem'ed seeds, breeders use a chemical to induce male flowers to grow on an otherwise normal female plant.. it's only the chemical that makes the plants grow male stamen.. take away the chemical, the plant would never grow balls...
it's pretty much the same procedure that a person getting ready to get a sex change operation goes through.. a male would take female estrogen, and as a result the male would start to develop breasts, have a higher voice, and less body hair.. it's only the chemical causing these things.. stop taking the estrogen, and the man boobs disappear, the voice gets deeper, and body hair returns...

we wouldn't think that a man taking estrogen, if he had kids, the kids would then be hermies, as we all know that's not how nature works.. it's the same thing with plants.. there is no hermie trait present in true breeding female plants used to make fem seeds, it's only the chemical used that makes the plant throw balls.. take away the chem, no balls.. so long as you don't spray the offspring with the same chems that you used on it's mom / dad, the plants won't grow balls either.. :D
Click to expand...

its common for plants to produce a very small amount of seed at the end of the grow something many growers and Mr Soma noticed (rodelization)
it is more common for a plant to do this than not in my experience
i can remember well the plants over the years that are what i call 100% female and would not show a single seed
even when many clones were grown and many lbs harvested no seeds

most plants will hemi towards the end of growth, this is not so much an undesirable trait since at the end of the crop no damage can result as the flowers are past fertility
and the resulting seeds are kept to a minimum , this process has been called a self preservation process and is regarded as natural

it is also quite common, for plants to produce some seeded flowers on lower nodes that receive less light and mature early
small undeveloped buds with all brown pistils and light colored foliage , this low light is a form of stress that can promote self pollination

if parent plants are chosen that are from this 100% female class and do not show any natural signs of heming , this would be great, but this is unlikely as these type of plants would not produce much pollen when treated with cs, etc

the feminized process can not influence what genetics will be passed on

breeders have found it difficult to "turn" these types of females not all plants respond well to CS colloidal/silver silver nitrate, if breeders are selecting stock that produce pollen "too easy" and keep crossing these "easy" plants together to produce large amounts of pollen the results will be plants that are more likely to show hemi traits in their genetics but only because of a poor selection process in the first place, not sure if there is a way round it, they need to produce large amounts of pollen to keep up will all the seed orders lol

peace :)

 
vilify

vilify

Well-Known Member
dgaf757 said:
look you can shoot the messenger, and discredit what they did...but it is High Times, and they did take a completely scientific approach.

vilify-so youre telling me that all 17 seeds produced 17different phenos...no seeds that are fem are a replica of a shorter, heavier yielding plant. the regulars are from genetics that naturally just stretch more. the fems were from a heavier, shorter breeding stock. and just like high times showed, in this case the fems didnt herm and were stronger and heavier.

...and now i bet people try to discredit high times because they dont agree with the findings.

edit:tags-youre absolutely right. its dependent on the genetics locked in seed, and yes fems do tend to hermie more often...but if its a good batch like most are, they produced shorter stalkier heavier plants. i see what you mean, if theyre bad fems, youre screwed, but its worth the gamble to me for coveted genetics.
Click to expand...
fems are a stabilized selection of the original. selected for the exact traits that the plant showed. less stretch, and high yields.
the yield has nothing to do with the fem process itself. it has to do with the plant that was selected to produce the seeds

and so you know the difference was 10 grams. on yields all around 100g / plant. not a huge difference IMO.
something that I also dont like about the test being they just tested yield. how about thc/cbd? you know the stuff that actually matters.

i dont grow regs because I think every plant I get will be better than fems. I do because I like to select my own variant.
I have thrown out many clones i got where the person LOVED the plant, and I just thought it was utter trash.
 
tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
Cannabis is naturally a hermaphroditic plant and some strains are just unstable. Fems are in general(not all) less stable than regs...and lots of breeders will just fem a selected cut to create a whole line instead of having a seed stock and searching for the keepers. It is pretty well documented and also from my personal experience that fem seeds herm more often. This is probably do to breeder error by using unstable strains in the first place, but non the less happen more with fems.

I think fems are great for the person looking to do a whole run from seed cause of no access to clones or don't have your own keepers, but as far as calling them strains is a stretch.
 
dgaf757

dgaf757

Active Member
vilify said:
fems are a stabilized selection of the original. selected for the exact traits that the plant showed. less stretch, and high yields.
the yield has nothing to do with the fem process itself. it has to do with the plant that was selected to produce the seeds

and so you know the difference was 10 grams. on yields all around 100g / plant. not a huge difference IMO.
something that I also dont like about the test being they just tested yield. how about thc/cbd? you know the stuff that actually matters.

i dont grow regs because I think every plant I get will be better than fems. I do because I like to select my own variant.
I have thrown out many clones i got where the person LOVED the plant, and I just thought it was utter trash.
Click to expand...
again, you just re-stated what i originally said. lol
 
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