Feminized Seed/Plant Pollinated

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

Howdy all....I am new to the site and usually dont participate in these forums...but I find myself kinda stuck on this issue. I have been growing for years and consider myself somewhat " old school ". I have always used regular seed to grow, select a mother , breed and clone. I have never really given much consideration to Fem seed....and given even less consideration to Fem Auto Flower seed. But last season I decided to try out fem seed. I had a few plants from fem seed in the mix with some other girls that I have grown and bred for years. I pollinated a couple of branches of my old strains and as it happens the Fem seed plants caught some of the pollin resulting in a few seeds here and there.

Can someone please advise as to whether the resulting on those feminized plants will be good seed to grow out??? I have tried to apply my own logic to this but I just dont know if I am way off base. My thinking is ...if the fem seed was created by using Collildal silver?? on a already stable strain...which I know the strain is stable because the breeder and the strain have been around since dirt was invented...kinda like me!! and I have worked with the strain before in regular seed form....then if the plant was pollinated by a different strain male...wouldnt the result just be a F1 hybreed???? Feed back please

welshsmoker · Feb 24, 2013

i think your right there mate, f1s i would say.

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

Well there seems to be allot of question as far as breeding plants grown out of feminized seed....people are all over the place on the subject...some say its a no no...others say why not. I would a solid answer . I just cant see why the seed would not be good viable regular F1 hybreed seed.....the female plant that was used to create the pollin was forced into that situation....it was not genetically predisposed to hermi....as we all know, hermies are a no no in the seed business. If anyone has a better understanding of this please advise in more detail...I sure as hell dont know. I germinated some of those seeds to see if the were viable and little babies everywhere....question is...are they good ????

joe blow greenthumb · Feb 24, 2013

They're as good as regular seeds with the genetic flaw of herm in them. A feminized pollinated by a reg male will produce regular seeds. But there is the tendency to herm but that is cut down with proper care and little stress.

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

Please explain the genetic flaw??? How can that possibly occure since the genetic flaw never existed....does the process of stressing the plant, lets say chemically since that is the most common method used today, only involve a hormonal impact on the plant that is stressed??? I truly want to learn and understand this. again...my logic tells me...if you take a stable, well established strain that is not genetically prone to hermie and you apply collildal silver only as a method of stressing the plant to produce male sacs....that still does not change the genetic code of that plant?? Again..I am not a biologist but my logic tells me that your making the plant do something that it was genetically not predisposed to, therefore the genetic footprint should remain the same because you are merely using the pollin from that plant to breed other regular female plants of the same strain to make the fem seed since the female is xx and the newly created pollin is only x because the y is now missing... normal regular male without hermie genes is xy. Why would the seeds I am talking about be more prone to hermie since to start with the mother plants used to create the fem seed do not have hermie genes.....Hermies are an absolute no in established breeding programs.....does that make sense or am i missing the boat???

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

If there is anyone out there that is a biologist or is trained in or understands genetics...I would appreciate your insight into the question I have posted. I have read so many things about breeding with Feminized seeds, most of it negative or rejecting the idea and always because of the same issue, HERMAPHRODITES, but in only instance I did read someone present the same ides as what i am saying...however I still have no peace with the subject because no one has really stepped up to the plate and said "This is the way it is and given a explaination as to why" That is what I want...a definitive answer.

I dont know if anyone is paying attention but the seed market has become predominantly Feminized seed...and that might be just fine for some but for those who want to breed or who have always bred, that could be a problem because the regular seed market has shrank considerably.....food for thought

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

I'm not a biologist, but I play one on the interweb.
Breeding using feminized seeds is fine.
A feminized plant is exactly the same as a regular female.

joe blow greenthumb said:
They're as good as regular seeds with the genetic flaw of herm in them.

That is absolutely not true. When feminized seeds are produced the dna is not altered and no "genetic flaw of herm" is added.

Every female plant has the ability to produce male flowers. that does not mean there is some sort of magical "hermie gene" that suddenly appears in the dna.

Feminized seeds are just like regular seeds except they are female. regular seeds are either male or female. If you could tell the difference and pick out the female seeds, you would basically have feminized seeds.

joe blow greenthumb said:
A feminized pollinated by a reg male will produce regular seeds. But there is the tendency to herm but that is cut down with proper care and little stress.

Bullshit, total and utter bullshit based on nothing but hearsay and/or crappy growing.

Feminized seeds are no more likely to show male flowers due to stress (or hermie) that the plants that produced them.

The only reason people think that feminized seeds are more likely to "hermie" is because of crappy growers.

Crappy growers buy feminized seeds.
Crappy growers stress the crap out of them with bad environmental conditions.
The stressed plants, like any other regular plants, produce male flowers.
Crappy growers do not like to blame themselves, so they blame the seeds.
Bullshit rumors about feminized seeds are spread by people who read stuff from crappy growers.

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

Bear Country said:
Please explain the genetic flaw??? How can that possibly occure since the genetic flaw never existed....does the process of stressing the plant, lets say chemically since that is the most common method used today, only involve a hormonal impact on the plant that is stressed??? I truly want to learn and understand this. again...my logic tells me...if you take a stable, well established strain that is not genetically prone to hermie and you apply collildal silver only as a method of stressing the plant to produce male sacs....that still does not change the genetic code of that plant??

YES!

Bear Country said:
Again..I am not a biologist but my logic tells me that your making the plant do something that it was genetically not predisposed to,

All female cannabis plants have the ability to produce male flowers. It is a normal and natural survival mechanism.

Bear Country said:
therefore the genetic footprint should remain the same because you are merely using the pollin from that plant to breed other regular female plants of the same strain to make the fem seed since the female is xx and the newly created pollin is only x because the y is now missing... normal regular male without hermie genes is xy.

Yes.

Bear Country said:
Why would the seeds I am talking about be more prone to hermie since to start with the mother plants used to create the fem seed do not have hermie genes.....Hermies are an absolute no in established breeding programs.....does that make sense or am i missing the boat???

You are the captain of the boat.
Rock on captain. Don't listen to haters that have never used feminized seeds, much less produced seeds.
I have produced thousands of feminized seeds without any problems from the resulting plants.

The only thing is you are not going to get stable plants from your seeds, but that would be true if you were exclusively using regular seeds.

joe blow greenthumb · Feb 24, 2013

Lol, you're funny and talk in circles to make yourself sound/look good. You say that a feminized is no more likely to show male than
the female from which it came? Well, if it came from a feminized then it is 100% likely that it carries the male genetics as the mother was 100% self pollinated. As I stated, stress and care will lower the herm tendency but its ALWAYS in the percentages when growing feminized. And as far as a crappy grower goes....I grow feminized and don't have herms but like any good grower will tell you, it's still in the genetics. So yes, a feminized IS more likely to herm. Learn to read trousers and stop with the pot shot grower comments. I grow feminized with no seeds/herms showing. I clearly stated that stress and care are the determining factors.

TROUSERS

Bullshit, total and utter bullshit based on nothing but hearsay and/or crappy growing.

Feminized seeds are no more likely to show male flowers due to stress (or hermie) that the plants that produced them.

The only reason people think that feminized seeds are more likely to "hermie" is because of crappy growers.

Crappy growers buy feminized seeds.
Crappy growers stress the crap out of them with bad environmental conditions.
The stressed plants, like any other regular plants, produce male flowers.
Crappy growers do not like to blame themselves, so they blame the seeds.
Bullshit rumors about feminized seeds are spread by people who read stuff from crappy growers.

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

Trousers.....I was on last night reading the thread that BMEAT was also on. I have to tell you....there were moments where I was laughing my ass off with some of that....it was entertaining and I had a good laugh with it....Im not sure how recent it was??? but anyway....i found parts of it freaken funny..made me laugh!!

Im new to the site but not new at growing ,just a bit old school. I have bred and made thousands of seeds ...except from regular seed. Feminized seed is new to me because I just ignored them for years....that old school kicks in ..ya know?? But last year was the first time I decided I would try to grow from Fem seed...of cousre I have followed the progress that Fem seed has made over the years, so I am familiar with the different methods of making them....in fact I saw your break down on collildal silver which I think is the preferred method of todays modern breeder??

Have you personally bred a feminized seed/plant and created seed from her and actually grown out the offspring? If so. can you report any results? And do you know anyone who maybe has and if so could you ask them to post the results. I think there is just a shit ton of misinformation out there. I read in another thread that Feminized seed plants were completly steril.....boy are they way off!!!!

So would you say that I was correct to say that breding a feminized seed plant to a regular male from another strain would just be the simple creation of another F1 hybreed??

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

JB Greenthumb......What about this theroy. Lets say you select one female to apply the silver to as to create the male sacs on that plant then you take the pollin that he/she produces and apply it to a host of other females of the same strain to get your female seed out of them....so now the only thing the treated plant did was become the doner to host the pollin sacs to pollinate the other girl/girls. Will that make a difference in the out come of the offspring if you should choose to use one of those feminized offspring seed plants in a future breeding project? Im not trying to come across as stubborn dumbass....Im simply trying to understand or discuss the possibilities. Let me share my thought on that....The host female is xx the resulting pollin with which the other girls are to be pollinated with will only carry x as the y is absent because of the process....therefore how can the newly created feminized seed plants offspring be slightly more prone to possibly turning hermaphrodite if ,as i see it, they already have an advantage since the y was not present upon pollination from the host? It seems to me that the chances of that happening are no greater then if one would have used regular seed. Those are my thoughts...not facts..as I stated earlier..I want answers to this question and honestly just read some of the threads...people are all over the dam place on the subject...yes. no..maybe..well if...ETC and on and on and on!

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

joe blow greenthumb said:
Lol, you're funny and talk in circles to make yourself sound/look good.

You spread bullshit lies about feminized seeds. If you think me countering your lies is to make me look good, you are wrong again. Don't start with me, it will get ugly.

joe blow greenthumb said:
You say that a feminized is no more likely to show male than
the female from which it came? Well, if it came from a feminized then it is 100% likely that it carries the male genetics as the mother was 100% self pollinated.

You are not in possession of the facts. A feminized seed does not have a Y chromosome. That is why 100% of properly made feminized seeds are female. It is exactly the same as a regular seed that produces a female plant, it does not have a Y chromosome. (Female plants have two X chromosomes, male plants have an X and a Y chromosome.)

joe blow greenthumb said:
As I stated,

incorrectly stated...

joe blow greenthumb said:
stress and care will lower the herm tendency but its ALWAYS in the percentages when growing feminized.

No, that is absolutely not true. When you use colloidal silver to change a plant, it does not change the plant's dna. no matter how much you want to believe this nonsense, it is just not true.

Should I be looking for a star in the east that portends the arrival of the magical "hermie trait"?

Of course it is "always in the percentages" but it is exactly the same percent chance for the regular seeds the fem was produced from.

Every female plant has the ability to produce male flowers. When a female plant "herms" it is not actually a hermaphrodite. It is just reacting to stress or outside influences. This does not change dna, it just activates hormones that are a natural and normal survival mechanism.

joe blow greenthumb said:
And as far as a crappy grower goes....I grow feminized and don't have herms

That is because you have properly made feminized seeds and you are not stressing them.
Want a lollipop?

joe blow greenthumb said:
but like any good grower will tell you, it's still in the genetics.

Yes, but you do not understand how they work.

joe blow greenthumb said:
So yes, a feminized IS more likely to herm.

No, it is not. You are wrong.

joe blow greenthumb said:
Learn to read trousers and stop with the pot shot grower comments.

If you could point me to something that backs up your really stupid opinions about feminized seeds, I would be happy to read them. You should also go and fuck yourself.

joe blow greenthumb · Feb 24, 2013

If using the pollen from a female to pollinate a regular female will not carry the tendency to herm. The herms you get then are user error. Using a seed from a self pollinated female will carry any tendencies that can be passed, ie herm. I've never seen a regular seed turn herm that didn't cover the entire plant but a selfed female can turn herm on one spot and that's due to the tendency, or ability, to herm under many conditions.

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

Bear Country said:
Trousers.....I was on last night reading the thread that BMEAT was also on. I have to tell you....there were moments where I was laughing my ass off with some of that....it was entertaining and I had a good laugh with it....Im not sure how recent it was??? but anyway....i found parts of it freaken funny..made me laugh!!

Im new to the site but not new at growing ,just a bit old school. I have bred and made thousands of seeds ...except from regular seed. Feminized seed is new to me because I just ignored them for years....that old school kicks in ..ya know?? But last year was the first time I decided I would try to grow from Fem seed...of cousre I have followed the progress that Fem seed has made over the years, so I am familiar with the different methods of making them....in fact I saw your break down on collildal silver which I think is the preferred method of todays modern breeder??

I would imagine that colloidal silver is the preferred method. I also imagine that growers do not like to talk about it in that people like bmeat will bring up bullshit lies about colloidal silver.

Bear Country said:
Have you personally bred a feminized seed/plant and created seed from her and actually grown out the offspring? If so. can you report any results?

I have produced thousands of feminized seeds and between me and my friends we have probably grown a coupld hundred of those seeds. Basically, the fem seeds that were crossed with a genetically identical plant (two clones from same mom, one gets turned, the other gets pollinated) put out very stable and very similar plants. The only variation we saw was normal pheno type variation.

Every single seed that germinated produced a female plant and not one "hermied."
The crosses we made were also 100% female with no "hermies."
The crosses were of course not stable. Mendle would say that 50% should be a mix of the two parents, 25% should take after the "dad" or shemale and 25% take after the mom.

We did not keep track, but we did see a good variation in the crosses, but no males or "hermies."

Bear Country said:
And do you know anyone who maybe has and if so could you ask them to post the results. I think there is just a shit ton of misinformation out there. I read in another thread that Feminized seed plants were completly steril.....boy are they way off!!!!

So would you say that I was correct to say that breding a feminized seed plant to a regular male from another strain would just be the simple creation of another F1 hybreed??

Yep. Jogro might come in here and correct me, he is wicked smart.

AimAim · Feb 24, 2013

I started buying feminized seed 9 years ago. I have never had a one single pollen sack sprout. About 160 plants worth.

I think this is one of those deals where the people who have bad experiences with herm plants want to type about their bad experiences. Seriously too bad for them, but my point is that the viewpoint is way skewed in favor of people who have had bad experiences.

Who's going to get on this site and say "I bought some feminized seeds and they turned out to be Female"

So IMHO You just tend to hear from the people who have negative experiences. Yeah and I am just a wee bit high and starting to ramble.

PEACE - Aim

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

joe blow greenthumb said:
If using the pollen from a female to pollinate a regular female will not carry the tendency to herm.

That is absolutely not true. Every female cannabis plant has the ability to produce male flowers.
It is a normal and natural survival mechanism built into the plant. If it wasn't there, cannabis may not exist today.

joe blow greenthumb said:
The herms you get then are user error. Using a seed from a self pollinated female will carry any tendencies that can be passed, ie herm.

No matter how many times you say it, it is still not true. Making feminized seeds does not change the dna. No other dna is magically added. Where is this magical "herms" thing coming from?

joe blow greenthumb said:
I've never seen a regular seed turn herm that didn't cover the entire plant but a selfed female can turn herm on one spot and that's due to the tendency, or ability, to herm under many conditions.

You lack a basic understanding of what a hermaphrodite is.
I do not feel like explaining it to you. Part of it is in my signature.
You are really not in possession of the facts about what you want to give advice about.
Just like bmeat.

bmeat could not find anything to back up his ridiculous opinions either.

joe blow greenthumb · Feb 24, 2013

trousers If you could point me to something that backs up your really stupid opinions about feminized seeds, I would be happy to read them. You should also go and fuck yourself.[/QUOTE
Fuck myself? I'm not a self pollinating marijuana plant. Youre a sad little man that gets angry over an adult conversation? What a bitch! Fuck you. rapid city, sd. Come get at me or shut the fuck up and be an adult! So tired of shit mouthed know it alls that don't know shit about being an adult. RIU, please get rid of these assholes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

joe blow greenthumb said:
Fuck myself? I'm not a self pollinating marijuana plant. Youre a sad little man that gets angry over an adult conversation? What a bitch! Fuck you. rapid city, sd. Come get at me or shut the fuck up and be an adult! So tired of shit mouthed know it alls that don't know shit about being an adult. RIU, please get rid of these assholes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You acted rude, you got rude in return.
Why don't you be an adult and offer something to back up your opinions? You have made some crazy claims and added some childish insults too. Why not back up your claims and come up with some better insults?

If you want to talk about feminized seeds, I can do that. If you want to talk shit, I can do that too.

Do you think you are acting like an adult?

Bear Country · Feb 24, 2013

Trousers...that last post you answered...that was me asking the questions not BJ Greenthumb...My bad, I replied on his post ..I guess. Sorry bout that Greenthumb....Like I said...Old School meets New World...UGH. Get you bro Jogro on this..I would like to him to read the thread and share his thoughts on the subject....Thanks

Trousers · Feb 24, 2013

Bear Country said:
Trousers...that last post you answered...that was me asking the questions not BJ Greenthumb...My bad, I replied on his post ..I guess. Sorry bout that Greenthumb....Like I said...Old School meets New World...UGH. Get you bro Jogro on this..I would like to him to read the thread and share his thoughts on the subject....Thanks

Yep, I fucked up the quoting, just fixed it.
You could pm jogro. If I was off base anywhere he will correct me.
I think I am pretty on target in here.

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