Mr. Krinkle
Well-Known Member
dude - you should stop because you really dont know what you're talking about....
Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???
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PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
More wrong assumptions.
I have the same meter myself. Those readings look great to me!Bible... Dont need one.... I go off personal experience and results
We tried the 600 watt MH and didnt like um... we would have to stage um 1 every 3x3 to get to desired results ...
A 15 x15 room hooked up with 600s... takes 25 @ 3x3 15,000 watts or 9 -1000s @ 5x5 9000 watts.... hmmm
My meter tells me we got around 75- 7600 FC about 6 inches under the 1000 watt bulb
and 16-1700 FC off the floor directly under the bulb... 42 inches away
NaturalBornCarny
Member
WOW is there a lot of bitching being done here. I like threads that are worded just to start arguments lol. Fan leaves both block light and produce sugars.
kinetic
Well-Known Member
That's why Jorge Cervantes gave uncle ben a shout out in his book right?he obviously gets ALL of his info from a book - and then comes here repeating what he read, like we never read that shit....
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
I'm sure Uncle B was knowledgeable in his time... Unfortunately time has gotten away from him and new techniques seem like a foreign language to him. You can't teach an old dog new tricks... When they are too fucking stubborn to even consider it anyways.
What does it really matter, in the end it comes down to the grower being happy with his results. In my case I have a few things to be held accountable for; yield, potency and quality. These standards have to be met not for my needs, but my patients needs.
I don't get any complaints and nobody goes without. On top of that they gladly give me $250 an oz to compensate me for my efforts.
What does it really matter, in the end it comes down to the grower being happy with his results. In my case I have a few things to be held accountable for; yield, potency and quality. These standards have to be met not for my needs, but my patients needs.
I don't get any complaints and nobody goes without. On top of that they gladly give me $250 an oz to compensate me for my efforts.
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I know hood design and light dynamics, studied it to death which included consorting with lighting techs and I'm here to reiterate that anyone thinking you're getting good efficiency with the pole end of a HID pointing down into the canopy is ignorant when it comes to the law of physics and lamp dynamics. Add to that the lossiness that occurs from the light having to travel a distance, indirectly from the tube to a reflecting surface (which also introduces light lossiness) and you have the perfect recipe for pissin' off your money and staying stupid. You might get good light distribution, but so will an incandescent bulb. Try the incan guys, you'll like that one too. 
UB
UB
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
See the post above and welcome to the Land of Cannabis Stupidity.This is currently the most efficient reflector available. It's a hybrid between the two technologies. Welcome to the brave new world!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I've seen some of the "patients" you speak of, and they look like they haven't taken a bath or held down a job in months. The medical marijuana ditty is a joke, nothing more than a disengenious racket to get high. The industry breeds hype, excessive profits (greed), and falsehoods.
You say you sell your pot for $250 which I think is very excessive. I sell mine to one friend only for $50/oz., just enough to pay for my time and risk. I also give it away to a few chosen friends/relatives.
UB
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
everyone just relax, this thread is not about flaming each other (but it looks like its heading in that direction), everyone is entitled to their own opinions but remember the RIU rules (i.e. NO threats-harassment-etc)..
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I rest my case, hah!
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
One thing I've learned about cannabis growing forums over the years:
1. The fate of the Western World depends on medical marijuana to "save" lives,
2. You must pH your water,
3. Advanced Shysters, hydro vendors, and seedbanks are honest people who really care,
4. Epsom salts not only cures ailing feet....but ailing plants,
5. Fan leaves are evil and just get in the way,
6. There are more physics and engineering graduates frequenting cannabis growing forums than can be found on the campus at MIT,
7. Bloom foods will increase production,
8. More trichomes and resin means more potency,
9. HPS lights have no blue spectrum and should only be used for flowering,
10. And last but not least, you can reinvent the wheel. All you need is a wrench to re-arrange the spokes.
cannawizard
Well-Known Member
- 8. More trichomes and resin means more potency,
**thats my FAV
stumpjumper
Well-Known Member
I give it away too, a free oz a month. Calling cancer patients getting relief is a racket ey? Chronic pain must be though? Nausea from Chrons, is that a racket too?
I don't have much else to say to that... If I wanted to racket I'd be pulling $80-$100 a quarter all day long EASY. I don't.
dizzlekush
Well-Known Member
Sorry UB, but this is incorrect, although its a pervasive & persistent belief. New advances in reflector designs adhering to the "one bounce and out" vertically oriented bulb concept have beaten every conventional horizontally oriented bulb/reflector combo tested. Real life tests using legitimate quantum meters measuring PPFD have proven that vertically oriented bulb/reflector combos have the highest efficacy in delivery of µmol/m2/s per input watt of power to date. Here's a little info on the matter:I know hood design and light dynamics, studied it to death which included consorting with lighting techs and I'm here to reiterate that anyone thinking you're getting good efficiency with the pole end of a HID pointing down into the canopy is ignorant when it comes to the law of physics and lamp dynamics. Add to that the lossiness that occurs from the light having to travel a distance, indirectly from the tube to a reflecting surface (which also introduces light lossiness) and you have the perfect recipe for pissin' off your money and staying stupid. You might get good light distribution, but so will an incandescent bulb. Try the incan guys, you'll like that one too.
UB
http://www.reeis.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/0217900-highly-efficient-luminaires-for-supplemental-greenhouse-lighting.html
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:15oNDfa60XYJ:cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/initial_testing_results.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiwtdOCvOMdzl9nRGQnigMToC5Kgwpp86_HUUFKDbhCMibR3tlaSgqfr8d72gNe9tK3haomjjEcE5vdgvU5YzhNfaUWc8FfzJ7RY_ssqtZIeXSV0kdwKyvilEM37t5PMttgHIvb&sig=AHIEtbRO0tXf7q-YaBSf80-dLYYcqwkt8A
cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_E15_study.pdf
http://cycloptics.com/all_bright_reflector
http://www.greners.com/reflector-test.html
For example the All-Bright luminaire has an efficiency of ~1.95PPF/watt, there's not a single horizontally oriented luminaire that can match that in the world.
The logic behind it is very simple. Horizontally oriented bulbs have been considered superior since the radiation from the bulbs arc tube is emitted from the sides of the arc tube (& bulb) as opposed to radiating from the tip of the arc tube. Orienting the bulb horizontally in a reflector allows for the greatest amount of light to be emitted directly (not reflected) from the reflector. This has been the argument for horizontally orienting the bulb. The problem with horizontally oriented bulbs is only 35-45% of the bulbs light gets emitted directly, the rest has to be reflected.
With the designt of modern horizontally oriented reflectors ~50% of the light emitted from the bulb MUST BE REFLECTED MORE THAN ONCE to actually leave the reflector. Each reflective bounce decreases the energy that the photon carries, decreasing irriadiance intensity (PPF). This is where vertically oriented reflectors have their advantage. With a vertically oriented reflector NONE of the light has to be reflected more than once to be emitted form the reflector, its all 'one bounce and out' (hence the name). Although there is much less direct light being emitted from vertically oriented bulbs, overall the lighting intensity & uniformity is greater since less Photosynthetic Photon Flux is lost due to multiple reflections.
This is why a flashlights design mirrors that of a vertically oriented reflector, its more efficient. If it was more efficient to orient the bulb horizontally so more of the arc tube could have direct irradiance, then all flashlights would have their bulb facing that direction instead of the design they currently have, which mirrors that of the Luxor, All-Bright etc.
FYI i currently use horizontally oriented reflectors (Blockbusters) since there isn't a single vertically oriented reflector on the market at the moment that is worth its price. Since the advances in reflector designs are fairly novel, they're still a little overpriced for their actual value.
Nothing personal UB, you're just considered one of the trusted 'voices of reason' in the community, and id like to try to correct this false belief in the community.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Read the actual test results I posted on reflector efficiency. Can't argue with numbers.See the post above and welcome to the Land of Cannabis Stupidity.This is currently the most efficient reflector available. It's a hybrid between the two technologies. Welcome to the brave new world!
Kite High
Well-Known Member
where are the results located PJ? Also was the PL Lighting Deep reflectors tested? I am running 2 on movers and by far the results are quite astonishing compared to the sun 6
Kite High
Well-Known Member
impossible for all reflected light to outperform in efficiency 40-60% direct light...the math kills their words dude...yep...one bounce and out when algebraic/geometrical math is applied...good crafty marketing though
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