Fan Leafs. Blockers of Light Or Energy Producers???

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Slab said:
That is the transmittance, absorption and reflection rates of a bean leaf.


Optical properties of cannabis leaves are not the same,obviously.
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I didn't post the link, I'm simply responding to it. I'm sure ganja isn't the same as beans, but I would assume it's not too far off. And like I said, real world experience clearly shows me that the PAR light is not transmitting through ganja leaves at a high percentage.
 
PJ Diaz said:
I didn't post the link, I'm simply responding to it. I'm sure ganja isn't the same as beans, but I would assume it's not too far off. And like I said, real world experience clearly shows me that the PAR light is not transmitting through ganja leaves at a high percentage.
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I think it will always go back to not enough light for the quantity you are trying to get... It's either go outdoor or get more lights...I don't see a benefit on defoliation if the plant is healthy... Removing upper fan leaves have to affect the bud outcome cuz of all stuff stored in it... I just can't see the benefit of defoliation orremoving leaves for bottom growth man...
 
Slab said:
That is the transmittance, absorption and reflection rates of a bean leaf.


Optical properties of cannabis leaves are not the same,obviously.
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Next grow I'm try to increase nitrogen levels and see if there is any difference... Even though I'm just coming to just get more lights/more grows at the same time... This high yield shit is getting ridiculous...
 
elkukupanda said:
I think it will always go back to not enough light for the quantity you are trying to get... It's either go outdoor or get more lights...I don't see a benefit on defoliation if the plant is healthy... Removing upper fan leaves have to affect the bud outcome cuz of all stuff stored in it... I just can't see the benefit of defoliation orremoving leaves for bottom growth man...
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Honestly the main reason I remove leaves is for better air circulation. I hope you don't have any problems on that front come close to harvest time, because poor air circulation can often manifest as powdery mildew. Yuk! Leaf removal is just one way I'd defeated that concern, and yields have not suffered as a result.

The thing is that we can't be so one dimensional as growers to simply say leaves=photosynthesis=plant growth. I mean, of course that's true. But there are also other factors to consider. Probably the most important factor in terms of leaf removal is how that affects hormonal responses in the plant itself. It's really not that far fetched to think that when a grower removes leaves, that the plant responds hormonally in a way which affects growth in a positive direction, is it?
 
elkukupanda said:
I think it will always go back to not enough light for the quantity you are trying to get...
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No. Lack of light isn't the issue. It's the simple fact that fan leaves shade out the light, which I can clearly see manifested as localized yellowing below the fan leaves which are literally millimeters above it at 7000+ footcandles.
 
PJ Diaz said:
Honestly the main reason I remove leaves is for better air circulation. I hope you don't have any problems on that front come close to harvest time, because poor air circulation can often manifest as powdery mildew. Yuk! Leaf removal is just one way I'd defeated that concern, and yields have not suffered as a result.

The thing is that we can't be so one dimensional as growers to simply say leaves=photosynthesis=plant growth. I mean, of course that's true. But there are also other factors to consider. Probably the most important factor in terms of leaf removal is how that affects hormonal responses in the plant itself. It's really not that far fetched to think that when a grower removes leaves, that the plant responds hormonally in a way which affects growth in a positive direction, is it?
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I have nothing against that.. I mean ou gotta do what you gotta do to keep the plant healthy.... The main thing is the whoe idea behind this thread which is yielding... People should forget about that and focus on growing healthy plants.... I got a fan going on all the time providing air all around so I think it should be fine... I only have 3 plants
 
PJ Diaz said:
No. Lack of light isn't the issue. It's the simple fact that fan leaves shade out the light, which I can clearly see manifested as localized yellowing below the fan leaves which are literally millimeters above it at 7000+ footcandles.
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Of course is lighting... I'm sure that having an stationary light system can't provide all the angles and stuff, plus why not tucking or training instead of removal? Or a light mover will work as well... Problem is light coming from one direction and fan leaves setting up to get as much light as possible
of course a healthy leaf vs a sick leaf and so on... So many variables... But removing a leaf I think is not the way to fix the problem.. You are just creating another..
 
elkukupanda said:
I have nothing against that.. I mean ou gotta do what you gotta do to keep the plant healthy.... The main thing is the whoe idea behind this thread which is yielding... People should forget about that and focus on growing healthy plants.... I got a fan going on all the time providing air all around so I think it should be fine... I only have 3 plants
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In my tent with the 600w I only have 4 plants. In that tent I have the exhaust fan (of course), a crappy duct fan for a little extra intake, two 4 inch "computer style" axial fans (120v type @ approx 100cfm each), two small 4 inch circulator fans on the floor, and an upright oscillator. So, that's 7 fans total. I think I'm good there. Problem is I live in a fog bank a few blocks from the beach, so humidity is a constant battle. I just got a dehumidifier in the past few months, and that's helped a lot too.

elkukupanda said:
Of course is lighting... I'm sure that having an stationary light system can't provide all the angles and stuff, plus why not tucking or training instead of removal? Or a light mover will work as well... Problem is light coming from one direction and fan leaves setting up to get as much light as possible
of course a healthy leaf vs a sick leaf and so on... So many variables... But removing a leaf I think is not the way to fix the problem.. You are just creating another..
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I do tuck and train. Tucking simply doesn't work that great IMO, and the air circulation issue persists.

Sure, a light mover would be good, but wouldn't solve the specific issue I''m talking about. I mean, how would a mover get light to a bottom leaf when the top leaf is literally resting on top of it? The mover isn't going to pick up that top leaf and move it out of the way for me is it? The issue I'm describing really isn't a "problem", it's just something that I've noticed -- that leaves do in fact shade out light and cause localized yellowing in that specific shaded spot.
Slab said:
And you didn't prune before and got good results, how'd you get par transmittance then?
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It simply wasn't that great then. Lots of popcorn and flarf towards the bottom of the plant -- an issue that I didn't have this harvest with some strategic leaf removal.
 
elkukupanda said:
This thing with mr. Diaz is looking more like trying to prove a point... I'm out of here lol
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No, I'm simply trying to disprove misinformation. If you want to believe one thing, and hold fast to that, well good for you (I guess). Thing is you haven't even gotten through one harvest yet, and you're already set in your ways. Seems kinda silly to me.
 
I believe available co2 could be a culprit. More bio mass then your enclosed atmosphere can support.

I do believe by removing leaf you are freeing up air for the rest of the plants.

goodnight look forward to figuring these bitches out another night
 
Slab said:
I believe available co2 could be a culprit. More bio mass then your enclosed atmosphere can support.

I do believe by removing leaf you are freeing up air for the rest of the plants.

goodnight look forward to figuring these bitches out another night
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That's a very good point.
 
PJ Diaz said:
No, I'm simply trying to disprove misinformation. If you want to believe one thing, and hold fast to that, well good for you (I guess). Thing is you haven't even gotten through one harvest yet, and you're already set in your ways. Seems kinda silly to me.
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Nope, it's clear to me that is a light problem... If light is unable to reach certain places its because something you are doing is not doing what the sun does outdoors...I'm not a perfectionist... I know how silly fellas get with this... We are growing pot.. Yes, it's my first grow but I wasn't born yesterday.... You are trying to disprove nothing.... You just don't want to accept facts... Grow one in a 10 x 10 x 10 room... With a couple 1k lights and light movers... You will see that it gets light everywhere.... The sky is pretty wide here... See one thing about arguing to get to an answer is sticking with the main concern... Answering it and then moving on... But if you don't want to hear the answer to your question and decide to ask a bunch more and so.. Lets not reinvent the wheel man... Removing leaves Is the solution... I guess... Like I said before... Before you waste your time doing that... Veg Shorter or whatever..
 
elkukupanda said:
im trying to find the link were they explain how red and far red affect photo receptors that are link with fruit and flowering... I think that was the idea behind hps lights

here we go
http://www.yale.edu/denglab/paper/Sullivan2003.pdf
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With the most important dynamic for cannabis, a short day plant, is the action of phytochrome on the flowering response.
Phytochromes, which are by the far the most studied of all
the plant photoreceptors, were initially purified on the basis of
being responsible for the reversible control of night-break of
short day flowering plants by red and far-red light.
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Like I said, we've discussed this stuff for 15 years. This is just rehashing what some of us understand. Hmmmmmmm, wiki has a good one. Let's see....

Got it -

Phytochrome is a photoreceptor, a pigment that plants use to detect light. It is sensitive to light in the red and far-red region of the visible spectrum. Many flowering plants use it to regulate the time of flowering based on the length of day and night (photoperiodism) and to set circadian rhythms. It also regulates other responses including the germination of seeds (photoblasty), elongation of seedlings, the size, shape and number of leaves, the synthesis of chlorophyll, and the straightening of the epicotyl or hypocotyl hook of dicot seedlings. It is found in the leaves of most plants.
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Emphasis mine.

Again, my buddy Mel Frank has a good read on phytochrome.
 
elkukupanda said:
This thing with mr. Diaz is looking more like trying to prove a point... I'm out of here lol
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He is driven to control the narrative, and that's OK if he had any scientific evidence of why fan leaves are destructive which it totally ludicrous. Someone needs to read R.C. Clarke's MJ Botany again and check out Jorge Cervantes.
 
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