Experimental Micro Grow CFL's - 1st time grower

Okay, my first time posting here. My first time starting a thread here. And more importantly, my first grow attempt (Of course only cucumbers!). It's only experimental at this point, as you will read below. But if things go well this time then I know that come Spring time, I'll be planting either paid for seeds or a clone from a friend.

So, I don't know how to start a journal and until I do, I shall try to keep this thread updated, maybe once weekly.

So my good friend, after throwing some seeds into a pot in his garden and getting good results, decides to move his seed throwing antics into a cupboard with a light. A few months later he pulls out 6 Oz of pretty decent buds!
Upon seeing the results of very little work, I decide "Why the f**k haven't I been doing this already!".

Mentioning my idea to my wife, only raised the discussion of divorce. The compromise is me using the shed
It's cold, it's damp and there is little space what with being shared with the lawn mower and several bikes and such like things.

However, my idea for inside the house involved using a PC case and LED's. So moving out to the shed offers me one huge advantage - more cubic volume of space to operate my grow! Putting the cold aside and the damp and the spiders, it's really my only option, so complaining about that at this point makes no sense - just to work with what I have.

Which is the idea behind my project. To use only the things I have already just laying round the house.
I'm skint, I'm not working. So there also, is my only option. Whatever happens, I can't afford to buy anything!

Down to business.

Cellotex. Shit loads of the stuff was given to me by a friend. If you don't know what that is; it's thermal insulate that goes inside the brick crevice in your house and in your loft. It's 2" thick hard foam covered with reflective paper-like aluminium. So almost perfect for me to create an enclosure for my project.
Fingers crossed, this stuff will be able to hold in the heat for twelve hours during flowering. I live in the UK, and the winters here are pretty harsh...
My work-around for this, is to have my 'light-off' period during the day. Not only using the lights when it's coldest, for their heat, but also utilising the 'off-peak' periods of my energy supplier.

Will it hold enough heat? Answers on a postcard please...
I still have a few light/heat leaks, but I've only just built the thing today so gimme a break!

My available space is roughly (after box completion) 30"(h) X 30"(w) X 20"(d)
Currently using 3X household CFL's (100W (r), 110w (r), 75w (b) ), on a rotation of 24/0. I shall be upgrading to another three maybe one week after the 12/12 switch over.
Generic garden nutrients, for vegging and flowering, and another for flower-maxing at the end.
I have no circulation at the mo, but I'm hoping it may not be needed just yet so am not worrying about it until my box is better sealed and the lighting and wiring is sorted. When it comes to it, I'll use PC fans, as I have a number of them around the house already

I hope to use the LST / Scrog techniques.

I planted 5 bag seeds with a hope of getting at least one female, max three.

My 5 seedlings are currently nearing two weeks old and are doing okay at around 2" tall.

I'll take some pics soon

Ill be tuning in bro i just started my grow as well cfls all the way.keep me posted i should be putting up a few pictures of my grow. Im going hydro though. Got a steal on a general hydro drip system off craigslist for 25 buks not even used. Right now i have a cardboard box that i have rigged up ghetto style but have seen alot on here and hope to hear some critics so i can have a better outcome of bud!

i thought on this topic long and hard myself
simple answer is just insulation probably won't cut it, if you insulate you'll likely get the chamber too hot
you need additional heat for the dark period
1 way is 2 grow chambers with alternating schedules, maybe some insulation to get temps for winter growing in unheated shed
or you can use some other heat source, but a 2nd chamber makes things efficient, waste heat becomes useful

bigbaby420 said:

Ill be tuning in bro i just started my grow as well cfls all the way.keep me posted i should be putting up a few pictures of my grow. Im going hydro though. Got a steal on a general hydro drip system off craigslist for 25 buks not even used. Right now i have a cardboard box that i have rigged up ghetto style but have seen alot on here and hope to hear some critics so i can have a better outcome of bud!

Click to expand...

Thanks for passing by bigbaby - I was considering starting a journal, not sure why exactly apart from these here threads are usually for advice and stuff.
LoL @ Card board box - that's awesome! Can't wait to see pics of that

growone said:

i thought on this topic long and hard myself
simple answer is just insulation probably won't cut it, if you insulate you'll likely get the chamber too hot
you need additional heat for the dark period
1 way is 2 grow chambers with alternating schedules, maybe some insulation to get temps for winter growing in unheated shed
or you can use some other heat source, but a 2nd chamber makes things efficient, waste heat becomes useful

Click to expand...

There's some good advice for me, growone. The cellotex is perfect insulation. When I open up my box I can feel the heat inside it and only with three energy saving bulbs! I love your idea about the double chamber system and I had indeed thought about it. I did give up on the idea as I want to eventually upgrade to a home made LED system. But thinking on it more, I realise that there is no real cost effective way to heat my grow box otherwise but I'd not previously considered alternate schedules in the two chambers. I have enough cellotex left over to create a second chamber and I'm sure it would be little hassle to create a vent system that blocks the light but still transfers the heat.

After stripping down some old PC's I now have adequate fans for my box. I'd hoped to have this sorted by now as flowering is supposed to start tomorrow :-S but It'll just have to be what it will be.
Thanks for passing through, growone. I really appreciate your idea

Incidentally, if I can post my photo's on this thread I'll just stick with this. Gonna give it a go now

Ok. So I've got my box built as you can see below, using cellotex insulation, aluminium tape and a little ingenuity. My CFL energy savers are cable-tied to barbeque foils running three from one mains timer and hoisted through a hole in the top of the box using a length of wire from the shed ceiling.

My current concerns are;
heat storage during off cycle,
air movement,
height of my box being too short,

as mentioned above, running a second chamber inside my box would allow me to alternate 'lights-on' and thus share heat between chambers. I think this idea is what I'm going to work with over the next week.
I had hoped to shock them tomorrow, beginning of third week, but this heat thing needs sorting out first so I'll give it a third week of veg while I get my box a bit more sorted.
Once the chambers are built correct I shall go about installing my PC fans using a power source that I haven't sourced yet lol I'll have to consider some sort of venting system (maybe built with cardboard?) with lots of corners to conceal the light from each chamber but still allows me to pump warm air throughout.

There isn't a lot I can do with the height of the box. It's been built onto the shed workbench and won't be moved. It's height is restricted by the shelf above. Yes I spose the shelf could come off to make way, but... I can't be arsed. There's lots of 'stuff' on that shelf with no other home to go to except the bin lol - maybe if it's a big enough issue then I can make changes for the next grow. And considering I may have to move soon I think it's far too much effort for this experimental first time grow.



Yay! I got pics sorted

Would love to hear your feedbacks folks

Oh yeah... another concern, as seen in pic 3, I have a little bit of a light leak going on. Which I had intended to block up with some makeshift design (probably blu-tac lol). It's actually my door (which is just a piece of cellotex cut to shape with obviously not straight cuts lol). But considering that I have no air flow right now and it does get quite stuffy in there with the 24/0 cycle, I decided to leave it for now as it offers a little in the way of fresh air.

I'd like to know what people think about my issue of venting.
My important consideration is that a UK winter will be upon us soon and I worry that an intake of almost frozen air wouldn't be a good idea at all...
Would it be too much to hope for, to just have an output vent?
Or maybe I could fashion a tunnel system so that air gets moved around the box and warms before it enters the chambers?

ello ONLY!.... yeah bruv

well glad to see your off and rocking ... and your 5 are probs 7-10 days further on then mine (3 Green O'Matic) .... and yeah yours is holding its own against my cellotex/wardrobe/kitchen sink effort

right firstly i'm doing 24/0 at the moment and the troubles i've had trying to sort my fans and shit out has been a nightmare.. one 5" fan sucks that much cold air into the passive intake that i was running temps like 58-65F.... that aint no good ...and it loses it fast! so you might want to as Growone says insulate that shed (if you have enough board) and heat the shed just enough during dark hours... it aint got to be roasting in there ... just a low heat .... (i'd seal the light leaks and heat the shed during the day with lights off, get head start that way) and you'll be fine

i am crapping myself about turning lights off right now.... as im doing auto's it shouldn't matter, but i'd much rather do 20/4..... i really don't want shit roots and low yelds

oh ... and nearly forgot ... you are going to need to have at least a passive air intake... as those plants want bucket loads of Co2.... they get it at a decent rate from fresh air (approx 500 ppm ish i think) much more if you have a sealed grow room with and Co2 tanks and regulators (1200ppm ish)....
so if your air isnt being replaced often enough then they not reward you down the line

again i have no experience with such matters, but it makes sense... and theres no way i'm getting C02 in the near future

loving the progress, DIY brings out the genius in all of us
there is another trick, i haven't used it, jugs of water
water actually has quite the ability to store heat, this gives a chamber with less ups and downs in temps
the in vent with cold air is a problem, my attempt at this did keep everything enclosed
the seal wasn't perfect, and seemed to work OK

Thats cute, you might even have enough to get high once or twice when you are done.

troutie said:

oh ... and nearly forgot ... you are going to need to have at least a passive air intake... as those plants want bucket loads of Co2.... they get it at a decent rate from fresh air (approx 500 ppm ish i think) much more if you have a sealed grow room with and Co2 tanks and regulators (1200ppm ish)....
so if your air isnt being replaced often enough then they not reward you down the line

again i have no experience with such matters, but it makes sense... and theres no way i'm getting C02 in the near future

Click to expand...

Yes I think I agree with you, Troutie. I've been searching my house for a power adapter that I can mutilate. No joy... I did a battery pack though, which when tested running in series with a 9v battery, actually managed to power two 12v fans. But not fast enough and probably expensive to replace once every few days. I'll think of something for sure.
In regards to the cold intake though, I haven't figured anything out just yet. Although I do have one idea...

My idea is heated cables. Any one know of these things?

They use them in terrariums for reptiles and I've been told they create ambient temperatures at around 30C. Being just a cable with a mains plug, I do wonder how this thiing works, but there were no pet shops open today lol (sunday) so I'm going to pop in tomorrow for further info on this.
I found some good deals on eBay for these, and at 4m length and with two of them, I could use one to warm my shed throughout and the other to warm my enclosure during lights out. Assuming of course that it won't get too hot.
I'm guess find a reasonable temperature will be trial and error once I get all these bits.

growone said:

loving the progress, DIY brings out the genius in all of us
there is another trick, i haven't used it, jugs of water
water actually has quite the ability to store heat, this gives a chamber with less ups and downs in temps
the in vent with cold air is a problem, my attempt at this did keep everything enclosed
the seal wasn't perfect, and seemed to work OK

Click to expand...

This is also a good idea. Thank you
I have considered using water for humidity reasons, but not for heat storage...
I would be no where without my genius lol

spandy said:

Thats cute, you might even have enough to get high once or twice when you are done.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the hope, spandy. My fingers are crossed for that, but ultimately, I'm expecting little as I know I will get a few things wrong the first time round. Second time round is a different story Cucumbers all round! lol

Thanks for passing by peeps, I appreciate all your comments

yeah i robbed a 12v torch charger/adaptor from my house (torch long since departed) powers all three fans in my "drobe" but unfortunately didn't need that much cooling... so its only running 1 80mm fan now.... (but when/if my cab moves indoors it already has the extra fans fitted i guess)

oh nearly forgot .... i'll ask my sis about them viv heating cables today

Cool! I look forward to hearing what your sister has to say on it

I'm kind of thinking I won't need so many fans either. But I want to be prepared... and I haven't actually found a charger yet that I can use. I've even considered using the PCU from a PC, attached to a motherboard to get the power from the board lol just a tad long winded haha I think I'll keep looking, I must have something in this house to power a few stupid fans

yeah ... even if you borrow one from something (rc car, torch, old modem??)... you dont need to cut and splice anything if you fire the red wire inside and tape the black to the outer part of the charger/adaptor it works fine...(some have reversed +/-) but you can't go wrong it works when its correct and don't if you get them the wrong way round

you know what?... aint seen my sister yet, but i have looked at these heater cables..... seems to look like a viable fix (cheap but still involves spending a little) but claims of 8-12 degree increase in temps are very interesting, could be the ansa!

this one seems ok for my/your size box http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reptile-Vivarium-Propagator-Heat-Cables-80W-9-metre-/120730633021?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Reptiles_Spiders_Insects&hash=item1c1c1b433d

....i have just read the link... reptiles spiders insects and hash ...lol

troutie said:

....i have just read the link... reptiles spiders insects and hash ...lol

Click to expand...

lol

There are some cheaper options on eBay too. I see a couple going for under a fiver. A couple of digital thermometers too for under a fiver. So I think spending ten quid on eBay could be my next step. Roll on the Giro lol

My only concern here with these cables, it over heating my enclosure. I only wonder if the fans I have will be enough to cool it back down to proper temps.
But the upside, a second cable wrapped randomly around my shed will heat it up a little so cancelling out frozen air on the intake

Once I get the bits, I'll be sure to take pictures to post up here.

nb; this also looks pretty useful, from the same seller.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reptile-Vivarium-Ceramic-Heat-Emitter-Heater-100W-/400099405675?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Reptiles_Spiders_Insects&hash=item5d27c86f6b#ht_3102wt_1050

i don't think they have the power to overheat a box over 2-4 square feet... mine is 480mmx830x1500... so i think that it would raise it 8-10 degrees max, so i doubt if you'd need a fan running at all.... its all guess work at the moment i admit

Aye, it's going to be a case of 'do it and see if it works', lol.

My idea is to have this cable zig zagging in a kettle-element fashion along the inside base of my enclosure. Cover the cable with gravel, as stone is a good medium for storing heat, then place my modded barbeque trays over this for my pots to sit on. I'll also consider some open pots of water as someone rightly suggested that water stores heat too, as well as evaporating and humidifying the warm dry air.

Hopefully, I'll be able to put the cables on a timer so they'll not be eating electric the whole time. Alas, only time will tell at this point.

I guess most new growers have this problem. trying new techniques while the grow is in progress.
Modern science usually has the research done first and then the experiment when the environment is right! lmao impatience wins over reason every time in this game, methinx.

on the water jugs, you can keep them sealed, might be the better choice
electrical connections and water that can spill can be a bad combination

yeah i was thinking the same (zigzaggin around the base) stones or sand to cover it i hadn't thought about, good idea..... i wouldn't run with the jugs of water though... humdity is quite high in the uk..... my hygrometer stopped regestering my hymidity about 5 minutes after put it in my cab...so i'm guessing its really high (or could be massively low??) all i know was it showed 50% when it first went in ... 50% is good for veggin..... not so great for flowering, may incourage mould... i have a little dehumidifyer that was given to me... might try it for a few days during flowering to see if it makes a difference, but as the air in my box is being replaced every 5 minutes or so i don't know if it will keep up???