Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

jocko21 said:

I want to branch of a 30 amp 220v line to power an extra set of lights..

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by code, no.& its not a good idea either way...but.... what is already on that circiut? if it is in use, then not unless you can make sure that the other appliance wont run when your lights are on. if its a stove or cloths dryer that you only use when the lights are out,it will work until someone turns it on when lights are on & pops the breaker. a hotwater heater will kick on at random so that wont work. sorry best to run to the box & add a breaker

mrmadcow said:

by code, no.& its not a good idea either way...but.... what is already on that circiut? if it is in use, then not unless you can make sure that the other appliance wont run when your lights are on. if its a stove or cloths dryer that you only use when the lights are out,it will work until someone turns it on when lights are on & pops the breaker. a hotwater heater will kick on at random so that wont work. sorry best to run to the box & add a breaker

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Thanks for the fast reply.

I thought so. My plan is to run 2 x 1000w in flower room, and 1 x 1000w mh in veg room off of that 30 amp circuit initially. My new question is should I run two 15 amp 220 breakers to each room? and then can I add a 20 amp 110v breaker to sub panel being fed from main service 30 amp breaker that I intend to add. I will run either 10/3 or 8/3 from main box to sub panel.
As a Gen. Contractor in NorCal I have alot of experience w/110v (doesn't hurt much) but have always referred to electricians when it comes to 220v, scared me. I'm going to get some cajones, good advice and get-r-done. Hopefully in that order.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright
Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
Thanks guys!


wb

wyteboi said:

Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright
Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
Thanks guys!
wb

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Well it falls under the whole 110 vs 220 cost issue. There *is* an *ultra slight* savings for 220, but you will never see it in a bill. (more in the abstract theoretical aspect of efficiency)

The power company doesn't charge via the neutral line, but the HOTs. They only supply a neutral to deal with a floating ground or phase imbalance (on voltage). Neutral *should* be zero volts, so how much of nothing are you using? (Neutral will be zero volts compared to the P-P of the hot(s), but *possibly* not zero to ground, hence the *single* point bonding of neutral and ground at the panel)

Now balancing the 2 phases is still a good thing to do. (maybe I'm old school and still not an electrician) But keeping things even (as possible) is just good practice.


(5toned can fill in the missing pieces and correct me)

Edit: It *might* be true for older wheel meters, but a digital not so much. (but then even the wheel meter use neutral as the reference so all bets are off) And if they did use the neutral then *all* 220 would be free since neutral isn't used. (main reason why *I* say that the US 220 supply *IS* 2 phase, but the device using it is single phase)

220/240 ground - neutral question

I'm intending to run digital 1000w & 600w ballasts from a 3-wire 240volt dryer circuit. 2 hot wires & 1 neutral. I was going to put 240v connector on end of a dryer cord so that I could just plug my 240v timer into that. The dryer cord has "2 hots & 1 neutral", the connector has "2 hots & 1 ground". so...

safe to use the 'neutral' wire as the 'ground' wire? safe for all the time use?

BigBudBalls said:

Well it falls under the whole 110 vs 220 cost issue. There *is* an *ultra slight* savings for 220, but you will never see it in a bill. (more in the abstract theoretical aspect of efficiency)

The power company doesn't charge via the neutral line, but the HOTs. They only supply a neutral to deal with a floating ground or phase imbalance (on voltage). Neutral *should* be zero volts, so how much of nothing are you using? (Neutral will be zero volts compared to the P-P of the hot(s), but *possibly* not zero to ground, hence the *single* point bonding of neutral and ground at the panel)

Now balancing the 2 phases is still a good thing to do. (maybe I'm old school and still not an electrician) But keeping things even (as possible) is just good practice.


(5toned can fill in the missing pieces and correct me)

Edit: It *might* be true for older wheel meters, but a digital not so much. (but then even the wheel meter use neutral as the reference so all bets are off) And if they did use the neutral then *all* 220 would be free since neutral isn't used. (main reason why *I* say that the US 220 supply *IS* 2 phase, but the device using it is single phase)

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well i have downgraded myself to a residential wire guy who is capable of making everything safe and per code. '
AND NOTHING MORE.
i do have a wheel meter , but i am with you , i dont think the neutral could have anything to do with it.
(sorry but i am very bad with electrical lingo and all lingo for that matter) I was testing amps when i evened it all out. how would i test volts , i know the neutral is "bonded" so neutral to ground wont work , correct?

thanks bubbz

cbreeze said:

220/240 ground - neutral question

I'm intending to run digital 1000w & 600w ballasts from a 3-wire 240volt dryer circuit. 2 hot wires & 1 neutral. I was going to put 240v connector on end of a dryer cord so that I could just plug my 240v timer into that. The dryer cord has "2 hots & 1 neutral", the connector has "2 hots & 1 ground". so...

safe to use the 'neutral' wire as the 'ground' wire? safe for all the time use?

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I would say yes with those lights it should be safe to run it that way, BUT i would stick around and let someone else tell you the correct way.

wb

can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?

i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.

Thanks

sherriberry said:

can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?

i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.

Thanks

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yes that makes sense , but i am not sure a dimmer switch is the best option. It will dim the power to the motor but i dont think it will slow down the flow and might cause damage to the pumps? someone else on here can answer that one for ya.


wb

I'm in need of some 12 or 14 aug copper grounding wire, bare. Any lengths would do, any suggestions other than buying it by the wheel?

buy it by the foot......

wyteboi said:

Hey bubbz, 5toned, hope you guys are doin alright
Got a question. I was told by a older guy years ago , that if you balance the load on the 2 phases then the power bill would be lower. He said because the neutral has no load on it, it could somehow save money?
Was he just thinkin there would be less resistance on the neutral...... or is there no truth to this at all ?
Thanks guys!


wb

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on paper, it is possible, so your friend was correct.
except in reality there are so many variables that it is literally next to impossible to get an actual balanced load. and its not that you save any power, you just waste less power...

sherriberry said:

can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?

i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.

Thanks

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no, a dimmer will burn up the motor and then you will be pissed.

you need a motor speed controller.
if its a big pump you really need a variable frequency drive.
to be totally honest, unless your wanting to slow down the flow for noise reasons, the cheapest route is to rig up a pump/bypass valve...
come off the pump with a t fitting, on one side of the tee connect the supply line (pipe going out to trays/buckets/dwc/ whatever etc) on the other side of the t, install a simple cut off valve, and use the valve to adjust the pressure in the line, so that when you have the vavle cracked, the excess simply drains back into the rez your pumping from. pretty simple and def cheap.... it wasnt me that came up with it, i saw it on one of heathrobinson's thread. but ill steal a good idea in a minute, its the american way, lol....

jocko21 said:

I want to branch of a 30 amp 220v line to power an extra set of lights. My question is if it is okay to branch off the existing to gain an extra 220 outlet, much like you can do with 110 outlets. My plan is to put a J-box in midline and branch off of that. Total amount of lights on that circuit would be 4 x 1000w HPS.

Thank you for providing your expertise you provide a valuable and important service.

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there is no code that says you cannot do this.
there is a code that says the wire you add has to be rated for the same amperage as the wire your tying into.... so if the 30amp circuit has #10, then you must use #10 on the new wire.

there is no limit to how many branch circuits/outlets you can have on a circuit.
as a matter of fact, when dealing with electricity the 5 major limiting factors are (in no particular orer) rated amperage, ambient temp, distance, required overcurrent protection and required voltage. stay within those catagories and you almost cant go wrong. on paper, you could pull 10,000 amps on one circuit, and put 100,000 20 amp outlets on the same circuit, and that circuit could even be 25 miles long... but only if the right sized wire and breakers were used. years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth and electricians still made more money than mexican drywallers, when i was in school, one of my instructors' fav tricks to keep the class occupied for time leftover after each lesson was to ask the damndest questions and have the class look up the answers. one of those questions was how many outlets can you have on one circuit?
answer? limitless. there is no code that specifies a given number of outlets.

just because i just said that however doesnt make you a junior electrician.

electricity is a strange and funny beast, it can be lethally complicated, deceptively simple,has neverending possiblilties and behaves by its own, unique set of rules, which take many years to understand, and many more to master.

IAm5toned said:

on paper, it is possible, so your friend was correct.
except in reality there are so many variables that it is literally next to impossible to get an actual balanced load. and its not that you save any power, you just waste less power...

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So if i had 25 amps running through the neutral then i got it down to 3, then was i actually wasting 22 amps? (or if this is way too complicated for me then dont worry about it)
main question is , where is the "waste"?
Thanks as always 5toned!


wb

hi looked enough ,cant find answer , i have just got a 600w light and ballast , my question is, can i put in my 400w light and if i do will the ballast just act as a 400w or should i stick with the 600w bulb i have , looking for cheapest option
cheers john

First off Bricktown, I would like to thank you for making yourself available to the RIU community like this.

I've in the past read up to around page 30 of this forum and didn't see my problem covered and so I would like to ask real quick.

I'm making a subpanel for all of my electricity needs and my plan was to just ground into my main panels ground bar as it's only 2' away from where my subpanel will be.

I know that code says that I must drive a new stake for a ground for a subpanel but as my panel will be 75 amps or less and they are so close together, will it be entirely necessary to go through that in order to avoid a fire and what not or can I get away safely with grounding into my main panel?

Thanks in advance,
MyxedUp

wyteboi said:

well i have downgraded myself to a residential wire guy who is capable of making everything safe and per code. '
AND NOTHING MORE.
i do have a wheel meter , but i am with you , i dont think the neutral could have anything to do with it.
(sorry but i am very bad with electrical lingo and all lingo for that matter) I was testing amps when i evened it all out. how would i test volts , i know the neutral is "bonded" so neutral to ground wont work , correct?

thanks bubbz

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You shouldn't need to worry much about volt. You will get a slight voltage drop, but nothing to really hurt anything. Just knowing its 120 240 or nothing (I get fooled a lot when its nothing, I always double check for that little 'mv' at the end of the display, millivolts, always seems to have some

sherriberry said:

can a dimmer switch be applied to a sump pump, and not hurt the pump and slow down the flow?

i have 2 identical pumps, and id like to be able to slow one of them down if that makes sense.

Thanks

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Better off just using a T fitting and back feeding unwanted liquid. Can adjust by using different tubing for the wanted/unwanted parts of the 'T'

myxedup said:

First off Bricktown, I would like to thank you for making yourself available to the RIU community like this.

I've in the past read up to around page 30 of this forum and didn't see my problem covered and so I would like to ask real quick.

I'm making a subpanel for all of my electricity needs and my plan was to just ground into my main panels ground bar as it's only 2' away from where my subpanel will be.

I know that code says that I must drive a new stake for a ground for a subpanel but as my panel will be 75 amps or less and they are so close together, will it be entirely necessary to go through that in order to avoid a fire and what not or can I get away safely with grounding into my main panel?

Thanks in advance,
MyxedUp

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run seperate wires for both the neutral, and the ground, and you will be fine.

usually you only have to have a ground rod when it is a seperate structure like a shed or unattached garage