Experience with LED's
- Thread starter xochipili
- Start date
Jonus
Well-Known Member
It comes down to the same problem that I discussed earlier and that is the practics of getting 1 x 0.5 watt LED to fit into the same space as 1 x 0.06 watt LED, or comparing a 5mm LED to a 10mm LED. They are not the same physical size.
So in the same space you would have either something like 140 x 10mm LEDs or 280 x 5mm LEDs...
On a macro scale its no different.
Take the UFO for example, lets say its outputting 2000 lumens per square foot at 1" above the plant canopy, if you had 2 x 90watt UFOs you either have them both light the one 2' x 2' space and double the lumens per square foot of light on that space, or, you have them light their own respective areas 2' x 2' of plant canopy and the lumens per square foot remains the same except you are lighting a wider area.
Focussed at a 2' x 2' space, the UFO would give you 500 lumens per square foot (2000 divided by (2 x 2)). Two of them pointed at the same grow area would give you 1000 lumens per square foot and so on, 4 would give you 2000 lumens per square foot, if all 4 were angled down into the same grow area...without having to physically raise them high enough that you may lose lumens.....
That is the nature of LED light because of how directional it is and that is when it starts to get inefficient, because although these are rough numbers and it may well work out that 4 x 90 watt UFOs mounted at 6 inches above the canopy and focussed onto the same 2 foot x 2 foot plant canopy area, may work out to outputting a higher amount of lumens per square foot than Ive listed, the fact of the matter is you are now at 360 watts of LEDs ( 4 UFOs) and getting 3000 to 4000 lumens per square foot of LED light (generously speaking) where if you used a 400 HPS HID with reflector you would be getting 13,250 lumens per square foot in the same grow area of 2' x 2'.
So this is where the CREE/Luxeon type LEDs are doing a better job because they are giving more lumens per square foot, and per LED. What we need is for someone that owns the latest Procyon 100 to test its lumens output for us so that we can get an idea of what lumens per square foot they are getting from their lamp which has 56 Cree LEDs mounted in it.
So in the same space you would have either something like 140 x 10mm LEDs or 280 x 5mm LEDs...
On a macro scale its no different.
Take the UFO for example, lets say its outputting 2000 lumens per square foot at 1" above the plant canopy, if you had 2 x 90watt UFOs you either have them both light the one 2' x 2' space and double the lumens per square foot of light on that space, or, you have them light their own respective areas 2' x 2' of plant canopy and the lumens per square foot remains the same except you are lighting a wider area.
Focussed at a 2' x 2' space, the UFO would give you 500 lumens per square foot (2000 divided by (2 x 2)). Two of them pointed at the same grow area would give you 1000 lumens per square foot and so on, 4 would give you 2000 lumens per square foot, if all 4 were angled down into the same grow area...without having to physically raise them high enough that you may lose lumens.....
That is the nature of LED light because of how directional it is and that is when it starts to get inefficient, because although these are rough numbers and it may well work out that 4 x 90 watt UFOs mounted at 6 inches above the canopy and focussed onto the same 2 foot x 2 foot plant canopy area, may work out to outputting a higher amount of lumens per square foot than Ive listed, the fact of the matter is you are now at 360 watts of LEDs ( 4 UFOs) and getting 3000 to 4000 lumens per square foot of LED light (generously speaking) where if you used a 400 HPS HID with reflector you would be getting 13,250 lumens per square foot in the same grow area of 2' x 2'.
So this is where the CREE/Luxeon type LEDs are doing a better job because they are giving more lumens per square foot, and per LED. What we need is for someone that owns the latest Procyon 100 to test its lumens output for us so that we can get an idea of what lumens per square foot they are getting from their lamp which has 56 Cree LEDs mounted in it.
curious.george
Well-Known Member
The buds I have under the ufo 3 inches away, look like that.
Jonus
Well-Known Member
How many weeks into bud are you CG?
I see there is a new version of the UFO:
IndoorAg UFO 2.0 Chrome 90w LED grow light
http://www.indooragriculture.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=34
They are now claiming the following:
My best guess from a little experience with the first version that came out, is that it matches a 250w MH for vegatative growth.
Even trying to insinuate you can get descent bud with it is being dishonest considering you would be lucky to be getting 2500 lumens per square foot with it 3 inches away from the top buds.
curious.george
Well-Known Member
9
it sucks they lie so much, I have lost respect for many who just make claims that are out right lies.
Now I see some magazine or retailer, who has previously claimed 90w LED=400w HPS, tell me there new digital ballast or hydro additive is great and I think Bull Sh!T
Jonus
Well-Known Member
And its not as if you could really lay a complaint with them about their product growing small bud...unless you were a legal med grower.
curious.george
Well-Known Member
One of the cool things about rollitup, i guess, is that people can come here and read our posts and get the truth.
Some interesting observation I just made while in my grow room trying to decide if I was ready for harvest. As I said earlier, I have a HPS and a UFO in the shade spot of the HPS from the air duct. Anyhow in the first 2 weeks of budding I noticed this area that was getting full HPS + some LED was growing the plants taller faster. It seemed like this was the brightest area. Now I am seeing that the buds in that area are clearly more leafy, thay are more huge than the others, but they are less bud material and more leaf. It is like the red+blue LED spectrum is actually bad for bud formation.
fat sam
Well-Known Member
i know everyone here hates led's but i think that they are the future of indoor growing....i just dont think that the technology is here yet, one of my friends dads owns a lighting shop where they make reflectors and ballasts and he showed me some led's that GE sent to them to test and basicly what it came down to was that it is to hard to dissapate the heat that those 4watt bulbs were putting out so they were exerimenting with water cooled fixtures and crazy stuff like that
curious.george
Well-Known Member
My guess is the light spectrum needs to be more than the red+blue in today's LED's grow lights for budding.
Glow Panel 40 watt 10mm LED
GH Hydro Farm
GH Nute
cool Bloom Added
17"x24" grow space (Linen closet)
First Grow ever.
Most of the buds have almost all red hair. Flushing with clearex starting this week
Was contemplating staggered harvest versus full plant harvest starting next week.
However, I just noted formation of round balls on some lower buds. I think my plant is turning into hermaphrodite and I guess I should harvest entire plant.
What do you guys think?
GH Hydro Farm
GH Nute
cool Bloom Added
17"x24" grow space (Linen closet)
First Grow ever.
Most of the buds have almost all red hair. Flushing with clearex starting this week
Was contemplating staggered harvest versus full plant harvest starting next week.
However, I just noted formation of round balls on some lower buds. I think my plant is turning into hermaphrodite and I guess I should harvest entire plant.
What do you guys think?
curious.george
Well-Known Member
its kind of hard to tell, maybe its a seed?