Expensive seeds

JCashman

Well-Known Member
yeah and we can charge people 750 bucks for a 10 pack to boot ;) hahaha

i can see the company logo now Whateverthefuck Seed Co. © 2011

their motto "order our seeds and we'll charge you whateverthefuck we want to" haha LOL
LOL!

i love it!
 

Toolage 87

Well-Known Member
Hey all. I've been reading what you all have been saying and here is my $0.02


1 - If the strain is really new or has a lot of strains crossed into 1 some people are willing to spend alot of money on them or will thing they are getting a good deal.
2 - I have found a good seed bank that I have asked questions to about a few things and they have answered it and they also say that a person can print out or write a order forum and send it to them with the product name or number on it with how many you want and with your payment in side.
3 - I agree that some seed banks see a lot of people as just someone ordering a strain and that's all. I have placed 2 orders with the same seed bank and they upgraded the free shipping to express for free and to me that is a good seed bank if they do that to some or all their customers that have a big order.


4 - About the DN gear. Yes their gear is costly and its stupid. I do know making a version of their strain your self will take 2 years but still you can make it custom to your needs and come out with more money in your pocket over buying their seeds.





Here's links to the strains that I am talking about and above the links I will post what strains are used to make it and look at Armageddon x Sirius Skunk its very funny that people don't read the description of strains because some seed banks will list what's in them and even some times the % of each strain that makes that 1 up). The thing that is funny is that it cost $433.85 but it has 50% Gaian Haze , 25% Norther Lights 5 , 25% Big Bud so you could just take regular Haze and regular NL and replace those 2 that are in the mix.



If I was to order the strains (regular seeds) that make up the 3 DN strains I would pay $150 for 3 strains that I will end up with 45 seeds in all and I can make all 3 DN strains my version that would have cost a person $937 for all 3 strains


Its very sad that not alot of people would read what makes up that 1 strain when the can end up making almost the same strains for a lot less.



The Doggies Nuts Seeds Tree of Life - Price: $276.09 - Genetics : Northern Lights and Haze
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/doggies-nuts-seeds/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-regular/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-tree-of-life/prod_1036.html


The Doggies Nuts Seeds Kabbalah - Price: $227.16 - Genetics : Big Bud and Northern Lights
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/doggies-nuts-seeds/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-regular/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-kabbalah/prod_1070.html


The Doggies Nuts Seeds Armageddon x Sirius Skunk - Price: $433.85 - Genetics : Armageddon x Sirius (50% Gaian Haze , 25% Norther Lights 5 , 25% Big Bud)
http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/doggies-nuts-seeds/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-regular/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-armageddon-x-sirius-skunk/prod_1031.html
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Hey all. I've been reading what you all have been saying and here is my $0.02

About the DN gear. Yes their gear is costly and its stupid. I do know making a version of their strain your self will take 2 years but still you can make it custom to your needs and come out with more money in your pocket over buying their seeds.
A few points:

First of all, Doggie's nuts isn't the only one with crosses of Northern lights, Big Bud, White Widow, and the like. If that's all you're after, there are plenty of breeders offering similar crosses out there. The REAL question is whether DN's versions of these are better than everyone else's to justify the higher asking prices for the seeds.

Being Devil's advocate here, if they really were better, then sure, the DN seeds might be worth the extra asking price, but again, based on what I know, I doubt that this is true. Presumably, DN has actually stabilized its proprietary "name" crosses, but I don't even know for sure that that's true (see below).

On breeding your own, while its easy to take two lines and cross them for a first generation hybrid, that's not the same thing as truly breeding new strains, and there is a lot more to it than that.

If you really want to come up with a new line that is actually GOOD and STABLE, you have to pick through dozens if not hundreds of F2, F3, and F4 generation hybrid plants to find the ones with the best characteristics you want to maintain, then cross and backcross them to the point where you have stable/truebreeding lines. This is actually quite a lot of work, as you say potentially taking several years. In fact even just doing the selection right takes a good amount of experience in terms of being able to discern what characteristics you want and to recognize them in both male and female plants.

The selection and stabilization is enough work that even many of the "name" seed companies aren't doing this. Lots of their strains haven't really been stabilized, explaining why planting a pack of seeds from many of them is just a crapshoot in terms of what phenotypes you'll end up with. With a true "strain" all of the seeds should create similar plants, right?

So breeding properly is really not something that a typical small home grower is going to be able to do right. Again, its one thing to create simple first generation hybrids that could be satisfactory for growing out new plants from seeds, but this isn't really developing a new strain. If you don't have the ability to run at least 30 plants at a time, then you're simply not going to generate enough offspring plants to do the best possible selection, and you probably aren't going to be creating top-notch strains. If you don't have a lot of experience running male plants, again, you're going to have a hard time picking the best possible parents, leading to mediocre end results.

Bluntly, the only way you're going to save money breeding your own strains is if your time has no value and you're already set up to be a breeder. Again, this doesn't apply to most growers, even large commercial ones, who aren't going to want to devote sizable grow areas solely to breeding projects.

Personally, I'd much rather just pay someone $50 a seed for a truly excellent strain that meets my specific needs, rather than trying to create one myself.

$50 a seed may sound like a lot (and it is), but its still a fantastic bargain compared to the costs of creating such a strain yourself. Remember, it can take two years to breed a good stable line, and that's two years of dedicating your resources to that project, resources that could have been devoted to regular growing. If you're doing it indoors, and just add up the costs of water, electricity, and nutrients, you probably can't create a good strain for under $500 and that's NOT including the value of your time or the opportunity cost of grow space devoted to breeding that could have been used for cropping.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
So to answer my own question, it looks like Doggie's Nuts hasn't even stabilized its own strains:
Price: $423.98

The Doggies Nuts Seeds Armageddon x Sirius Skunk
is an F1 hybrid incorporating NL5, Big Bud and Gaian Haze. The Armageddon x Sirius Skunk is resilient indoors and out; a true all rounder. Its Cannabis Seeds have the uplift of Haze, the energy of Northern Lights 5 and stoning power of the Big Bud. This dysfunctional family creates an offspring that is 50% Gaian Haze, 25% NL5 and 25% Big Bud. All three parents are renowned produF1 hybrid incorporating NL5, Big Bud and Gaian Haze. Resilient indoors and outdoors, it is a true all rounder. Has the uplift of Haze, the energy of Northern Lights 5 and stoning power of the Big Bud. This dysfunctional family creates an offspring that is 50% Gaian Haze, 25% NL5 and 25% Big Bud. All three parents are renowned producers so instead of having the best of one world you have the best of three. Armageddon x Sirius has a flowering period of 7-8 weeks and a yield of 325-1000g/m2cers so instead of having the best of one world you have the best of three. This is the doggen sirius stuff. You'd be barking mad to miss out on it
I think you'd be barking mad to pay over $400 for this mutt of a strain.

Despite the misleading name of "Armageddon x Sirius", by claiming this is an F1, the breeder is saying that this "strain" is actually a direct offspring of a Gaian Haze plant and a NLxBB plant. That's how you get 50% GH genetics and 25% each NL and BB.

In other words, its a simple first generation hybrid of two other commercially available lines, and NOT a stabilized strain in its own right.

If you were to take two of these plants and cross them, you'd end up with a gazillion different phenotypes, many of which would probably be pretty lousy.

Now, for all I know GHx(NLxBB) might well be a great hybrid in its own right, and in fact it probably is, but I think you'd be insane to pay over $40 per seed for it.

For example, for under $250 TOTAL (and possibly a lot less), you should be able to obtain top-quality versions of GH and NLxBB from any one of several breeders.

Plant those two, and cross them, and in roughly three months you'll have literally hundreds of seeds of GHx(NLxBB), plus you'd have genetics of the original true-breeding GH too.

Even worse, I notice that the EXACT SAME HYBRID is being offered by "Pukka Seeds" for $140 **AND** it looks like "Doggies nuts" has directly lifted its ad copy!
http://www.everyonedoesit.com/online_headshop/Pukka_Seeds__Sirius_Skunk.cfm?iProductID=3482

Its not clear to me whether DN has outright stolen Pukka's genetics and ad copy, is selling rebranded Pukka seeds with (or without) Pukka's permission, or in fact DN *IS* a branch of Pukka selling the same seeds at a higher price, but whichever one of these things is true, I don't see any reason to buy what appear to be the same seeds from DN that you can buy from Pukka for less than 1/3 the cost!
 

Toolage 87

Well-Known Member
Jogro said:
A few points:

First of all, Doggie's nuts isn't the only one with crosses of Northern lights, Big Bud, White Widow, and the like. If that's all you're after, there are plenty of breeders offering similar crosses out there. The REAL question is whether DN's versions of these are better than everyone else's to justify the higher asking prices for the seeds.

Being Devil's advocate here, if they really were better, then sure, the DN seeds might be worth the extra asking price, but again, based on what I know, I doubt that this is true. Presumably, DN has actually stabilized its proprietary "name" crosses, but I don't even know for sure that that's true (see below).
Yes DN hasn't been proven to be the best or better with their different strains that being said since a lot of people are restricted or don't wanna chance of ordering seeds from out side the country buying those 3 strains to make your own version is the only option people have and I am one of them that I am not gonna order seeds from out side the country and hope I get my seeds intact or at all if customs didn't take them.






Jogro said:
On breeding your own, while its easy to take two lines and cross them for a first generation hybrid, that's not the same thing as truly breeding new strains, and there is a lot more to it than that.

If you really want to come up with a new line that is actually GOOD and STABLE, you have to pick through dozens if not hundreds of F2, F3, and F4 generation hybrid plants to find the ones with the best characteristics you want to maintain, then cross and backcross them to the point where you have stable/truebreeding lines. This is actually quite a lot of work, as you say potentially taking several years. In fact even just doing the selection right takes a good amount of experience in terms of being able to discern what characteristics you want and to recognize them in both male and female plants.

The selection and stabilization is enough work that even many of the "name" seed companies aren't doing this. Lots of their strains haven't really been stabilized, explaining why planting a pack of seeds from many of them is just a crapshoot in terms of what phenotypes you'll end up with. With a true "strain" all of the seeds should create similar plants, right?
Yes "TRUE" stable real strains should all look the same or almost the same. The odd plant or few out of a pack that doesn't look the same should always be expected since some won't always grow right and such as we all have experienced in your time of growing.




Jogro said:
So breeding properly is really not something that a typical small home grower is going to be able to do right. Again, its one thing to create simple first generation hybrids that could be satisfactory for growing out new plants from seeds, but this isn't really developing a new strain. If you don't have the ability to run at least 30 plants at a time, then you're simply not going to generate enough offspring plants to do the best possible selection, and you probably aren't going to be creating top-notch strains. If you don't have a lot of experience running male plants, again, you're going to have a hard time picking the best possible parents, leading to mediocre end results.
Very true. But a person can make top notch strains with few plants but they would have to make true strains of each female to have a stock aka feminized seeds. If they make Feminized seeds of a single mom that looks exactly like her then that can help make breeding a little easer but you would have to do all the breeding by growing your plants in hydro to make sure you get the fastest growth, fastest rooting times and such to do it with little amount of plants but as you said you need 30+ plants going at once to get the right ones.

Jogro said:
Bluntly, the only way you're going to save money breeding your own strains is if your time has no value and you're already set up to be a breeder. Again, this doesn't apply to most growers, even large commercial ones, who aren't going to want to devote sizable grow areas solely to breeding projects.
Yes but also if you want to make your own hybrid strains you can just to mess around. There are people out there that are willing to buy F1 strains due to the better chance of them getting some plants that gives them what they want so you can make money back even on your first crop of seeds. BUT not all breeders believe that putting out F1 strains is right but some think it is since people can get a perfect strain they want.

Jogro said:
Personally, I'd much rather just pay someone $50 a seed for a truly excellent strain that meets my specific needs, rather than trying to create one myself.

$50 a seed may sound like a lot (and it is), but its still a fantastic bargain compared to the costs of creating such a strain yourself.
If there was a killer strain I might be willing to spend $50 on a single seed but that is only if it roots fast, flowers fast, produces a lot of THC and other things.


Jogro said:
Remember, it can take two years to breed a good stable line, and that's two years of dedicating your resources to that project, resources that could have been devoted to regular growing. If you're doing it indoors, and just add up the costs of water, electricity, and nutrients, you probably can't create a good strain for under $500 and that's NOT including the value of your time or the opportunity cost of grow space devoted to breeding that could have been used for cropping.
I do think its possible to make a good strain for under $500 if you already have the stuff setup for breeding. Now if you had to start from nothing yes its pretty much impossible.

You also forgot to cost of cleaning supplies since some people have to buy it and use it only for their gardens but also Insecticidal soap or w/e they chose to help combat bugs. But at the same time I can counter that comment because you can grow garlic and natural stuff that repels insects so that can add to the cost but it can save you money and at the same time depending what plants that naturally repel bugs you could take cuttings of it and sell them to people since its herbs and such people are more then likely wanna grow them self.

If a person is lucky enough like I am some people don't have to pay or water and or power because their landlord includes that into the rent.

Now as for power if a person that is breeding uses solar, micro hydro or wind to make their own power the cost of the power and system is gonna be $0 in 2 years maybe even up to 5 years.

There are breeders out there that have a regular full time job and come home and does stuff in their garden because its relaxing and what not and it helps put a little more money in their pocket for living and knowing that they are helping customers out in a good way if they aren't the kind that rip people off.
 

Toolage 87

Well-Known Member
Jogro said:
So to answer my own question, it looks like Doggie's Nuts hasn't even stabilized its own strains:

I think you'd be barking mad to pay over $400 for this mutt of a strain.
Yes and that's why I said you can spend $150 or w/e to make this strain and many other strains.

Jogro said:
Despite the misleading name of "Armageddon x Sirius", by claiming this is an F1, the breeder is saying that this "strain" is actually a direct offspring of a Gaian Haze plant and a NLxBB plant. That's how you get 50% GH genetics and 25% each NL and BB.
Yes it is



Jogro said:
In other words, its a simple first generation hybrid of two other commercially available lines, and NOT a stabilized strain in its own right.

If you were to take two of these plants and cross them, you'd end up with a gazillion different phenotypes, many of which would probably be pretty lousy.
Very sad but true there.


Jogro said:
Now, for all I know GHx(NLxBB) might well be a great hybrid in its own right, and in fact it probably is, but I think you'd be insane to pay over $40 per seed for it.

For example, for under $250 TOTAL (and possibly a lot less), you should be able to obtain top-quality versions of GH and NLxBB from any one of several breeders.


Plant those two, and cross them, and in roughly three months you'll have literally hundreds of seeds of GHx(NLxBB), plus you'd have genetics of the original true-breeding GH too.
That is exactly what I have been trying to say that people should read what they say about the strain because they could find strains to make their own version of it.

I tried looking for GH but I haven't had any luck finding it or what makes the strain.




Jogro said:
Even worse, I notice that the EXACT SAME HYBRID is being offered by "Pukka Seeds" for $140 **AND** it looks like "Doggies nuts" has directly lifted its ad copy!
http://www.everyonedoesit.com/online_headshop/Pukka_Seeds__Sirius_Skunk.cfm?iProductID=3482

Its not clear to me whether DN has outright stolen Pukka's genetics and ad copy, is selling rebranded Pukka seeds with (or without) Pukka's permission, or in fact DN *IS* a branch of Pukka selling the same seeds at a higher price, but whichever one of these things is true, I don't see any reason to buy what appear to be the same seeds from DN that you can buy from Pukka for less than 1/3 the cost!
That is a good question if Pukka took DN's seeds and made their own or what the heck went on between those 2.

If I was able to I would order the strain from Pukka but since I can't and even if I could I would rather order the 3 strains that make up that 1 strain and make my own version


EDIT

While I was looking at a site that has a strain database I came across a strain called well Super Silver Haze. The SSH that I could may not be a hybrid but its a exact 50% Haze, 25% Skunk, 25% NL cross.
 

infamouz1

Well-Known Member
In marketing, there is something called "The Smirnoff effect" (after the vodka of the same name).

Its basically that people are often willing to pay more for something, just because the asking price is higher, and they assume that they're getting a better product, even if it isn't really true.

The same principle, obviously holds true for things other than vodka.

I've never tried anything from "Doggie's nuts" but I'm still reasonably confident that:

a. They're seeds aren't a million times better than any of the top lines from any number of well-established breeders with strong reputations dating back 10-15 years.
b. They're seeds probably aren't ANY better than a bunch of well known "name" strains, and
c. Something akin to the "Smirnoff" effect is probably at play here.

Anyway, to answer the question, like everything else, seeds are priced based on what the market can bear. Like in any competitive industry, different companies with different products are trying to capture different segments of the market, in part based on pricing. In the seed market, I think there is probably a ROUGH correlation between price and seed quality, though I'm certain its not absolute.

In some cases, breeders can charge top prices for their seeds, because their seeds really are the best possible seeds, meaning high viability seeds leading to high potency, stable strains of excellent quality. In this case, you pay more, you get more.

In some cases, breeders can charge more based on their reputation. For example, some of the breeders who have developed famous or award-winning strains can legitimately charge more for them than the average seedbank or breeder, because they're putting their "brand" on the seeds. Generally these are top-notch lines, though I think there are also a few seed houses out there that are trading on old reputations that may be out of date. IE, they charge a lot for lines that may not be entirely worth the extra cost.

In some cases, individual seeds just cost more to produce. Specifically, if the strain in question is one that takes extra time to flower (say 12 weeks instead of 8) and has lower than normal yield, then it takes that much more work and energy just to create each seed. Some of the potent Sativa-heavy strains are like this. For example, I believe this is one reason, why the "Jack Herer" strain-type seeds almost always cost more. Its not *just* that the product is so good, but also that it really does cost more to make the seeds themselves.

In some cases, the "Smirnoff effect" may be at play.

Lastly, on "cannabis cup" and other such awards, its been widely alleged that the High Times cups are rigged. I don't know for sure if that's true (though my guess is, yeah, probably), but even assuming there is "fair" judging going on, at least to a large extent the "winners" are subjective. Its also true that lots of breeders don't enter the cups for a variety of reasons, and lots of truly excellent strains never really compete. Ultimately, these "cups" are basically marketing gimmicks to sell seeds (and seedbanks).
thats what
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
I tried looking for GH but I haven't had any luck finding it or what makes the strain.
Every heard of "Google"? Note that I've never tried this strain and I have no comment (good or bad) about its quality. I also know next to zero about Pukka seeds:

http://www.canaseed.com/details.aspx?p=1822
A green strain from Thai parents developed in 1997. The Thai parents were already being grown in Holland for years previously.
A very strong plant with long, thick buds. Has a Thai aroma and a clear, fresh smell. Sativa high, very productive.


http://www.everyonedoesit.com/online_headshop/Pukka_Seeds__Gaian_Haze.cfm?iProductID=7555
Gaian Haze by Pukka Cannabis Seeds is a hybrid of Original Haze and some of the best indicas from around the world
.
So there are two descriptions of "Gaian haze" allegedly from the same seedhouse, and note that the two descriptions might even contradict one another!

Also note, that there is quite a bit of controversy about the the origin of the original "haze".

In general, tracing the genetic lineage of marijuana plants is like chasing rumors. If you're dealing with "name" strains from highly reputable breeders you might get to the truth, but I think just as often you'll come across distortions, ignorance, or outright BS.

While I was looking at a site that has a strain database I came across a strain called well Super Silver Haze. The SSH that I could may not be a hybrid but its a exact 50% Haze, 25% Skunk, 25% NL cross.
First of all, Super Silver Haze is a famous strain that won awards at the High Times Cannabis cup for three years running in the late 1990s.
Without getting into the particular history of that strain (which you could look up, I guess, if you wanted), suffice it to say that:

a. The strain itself is highly similar (and perhaps identical) to another famous award winning strain called "Jack Herer", and its know for low yield, but excellent effect and flavor.

b. Yes, the strain is derived from Haze/NL/Skunk, but supposedly the original parents were "elite" cuts of the famous parents maintained by a famous seedbank. In other words, at this point in time, there is more than one "Haze", "NL", etc. In theory they should be identical or nearly so. In practice, its probably not entirely true, and I think it would be a mistake to think you could start with anyone's allegedly inbred lines of the above three, cross them, and expect to get something as good as a famous award winning strain that itself was hand selected by top breeders from "elite" stock.

Even assuming you could do it yourself, again, it would only make sense to try and re-invent the wheel this way if you had a lot of spare time and grow space on your hands. For about $160 you can have the original award winning super-silver haze from the original breeder.

If I was able to I would order the strain from Pukka but since I can't and even if I could I would rather order the 3 strains that make up that 1 strain and make my own version
See above.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Yes DN hasn't been proven to be the best or better with their different strains that being said since a lot of people are restricted or don't wanna chance of ordering seeds from out side the country buying those 3 strains to make your own version is the only option people have and I am one of them that I am not gonna order seeds from out side the country and hope I get my seeds intact or at all if customs didn't take them.
Well, either you have the ability to get seeds from abroad or you don't.

If you do, you could order this strain directly from DN, or Pukka's version the same as any other seeds ordered abroad.

If you feel limited to what you have locally available, that's different, though I'd suggest its still probably cheaper and a lot less work getting the seeds you want than trying to recreate established hybridized lines from scratch!

As a significant related issue, bluntly, I don't see why this particular cross of GHx(NLxBB) is so spectacular. Again, I'd hope given its parentage that its at least pretty good, but there are enough really good strains out there that enjoy excellent reputations, from top notch breeders, that I don't see a lot of need to either go with something unproven, or even worse, try to recreate something like that from scratch! If you handed me a pack of these seeds, I wouldn't say "no", but given what's out there, these aren't anywhere near the top of my list of what I'd pick.

Yes "TRUE" stable real strains should all look the same or almost the same. The odd plant or few out of a pack that doesn't look the same should always be expected since some won't always grow right and such as we all have experienced in your time of growing.
Well, now you get into what exactly constitutes a "strain". Many people use the term loosely to refer to any specific named "type" of cannabis, but that's really not correct.

By definition a "strain" refers to any group of plants that share common ancestors and characteristics. So if you have a pack of seeds where every seed in the pack produces a different looking plant, then that is NOT a "strain", even if the plants are all siblings. The plant might even be amazing, but its not a "strain". Put more simply, a "mutt" can be a great dog, but its not a breed of dog!

In terms of differences, my understanding is that the phenotypic mutation rate in cannabis strains is about 1 in 1000. So assuming you're growing a whole bunch of genetically similar IBL plants, about 1 in 1000 of them might be noticeably different than the others. If you're growing multiple plants of a true strain in the same soil under the same lights, or outdoors in the same fields, with only rare and unusual exceptions, all the plants should look similar.

Very true. But a person can make top notch strains with few plants but they would have to make true strains of each female to have a stock aka feminized seeds. If they make Feminized seeds of a single mom that looks exactly like her then that can help make breeding a little easer but you would have to do all the breeding by growing your plants in hydro to make sure you get the fastest growth, fastest rooting times and such to do it with little amount of plants but as you said you need 30+ plants going at once to get the right ones.
No.

First of all, the offspring of feminized seeds will only be genetically identical to the parents if both parents are themselves of the same inbred line. If either (or both) parents are hybrids then the offspring can vary. Feminized seeds are neither necessary nor sufficient for breeding, and some would argue that they're actually a hindrance. Many of the big "name" breeders deliberately shun feminized seeds altogether.

Next, having true breeding lines as a starting point for breeding is also neither necessary nor sufficient to create a good new strain, though it can be helpful.

Hydro, also, has nothing to do with this, and in fact, historically speaking, most selective cannabis breeding was done outdoors, the "old fashioned" way. Hydro might let you grow bigger plants in the same length of time, but it doesn't really help plants mature faster, not is it necessary for breeding. In fact, I think most breeders do their indoor breeding in soil, since it makes managing individual plants with different traits for selection easier.

Ultimately, all breeding is about doing crosses, making selections for the traits you want, eliminating the ones you don't want, and then repeatedly crossing or backcrossing the offspring to the point where those traits stabilize. Note that in some cases you simply many NOT be able to stabilize certain traits, because they may require heterozygosity (eg "hybrid vigor") to be expressed. That's probably the case with the GHx(NLxBB). . . you might not even be able to create a stable line that looks like the F1 hybrid. If you're *lucky* you might be able to discover great crosses with small numbers of plants, but that's basically gambling. . .if you want to do the best work, you have to comb though a lot of plants.

If there was a killer strain I might be willing to spend $50 on a single seed but that is only if it roots fast, flowers fast, produces a lot of THC and other things.
You can already buy any number of top quality seeds with all those characteristics for far less than that.
IMO, the reason to pay $50 for a seed is because it does something for you that other less-expensive strains won't. . .whatever that may be. (EG mold resistance; a particular flavor or color, or even potentially simple availability, etc).

I do think its possible to make a good strain for under $500 if you already have the stuff setup for breeding. Now if you had to start from nothing yes its pretty much impossible.
Well, if you're growing outside in fields, you could theoretically do it at negligible cost, except for the cost of your time/labor and opportunity cost of giving up the land that you could be using to grow something else better.

But those last two things are real considerations. Maintaining a meticulous medium-sized grow operation for two years (which is what you need for breeding) isn't "cost free", even if you aren't paying a lot of cash out of your pocket to do the maintenance.

I think if you add it up, to plant the parent seeds, cross them, raise an F1, cross THOSE, cull through 100 offspring to find the "interesting" ones, keep records, cross/backcross THOSE, and repeat x 3 more generations, your talking at LEAST many dozens of hours of work, if not hundreds of hours, After two years of that, well, if you started with good parents and did your job well, you MIGHT end up with a bunch of seeds of a new award-winning strain.

Or you can pay $150 (or even quite a bit less) and have seeds of an already established award winning strain mailed to you, ready to be planted in seven days.

This is why serious breeding doesn't make sense for anyone other than pro breeders. With literally hundreds of cannabis strains commercially available already, most people are going to find it far easier to just buy something that suits them and get going instead of trying to re-invent the wheel.
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
yeah and we can charge people 750 bucks for a 10 pack to boot ;) hahaha

i can see the company logo now Whateverthefuck Seed Co. © 2011

their motto "order our seeds and we'll charge you whateverthefuck we want to" haha LOL




















too late ...
greenhouse is already doing that
 

Mysticwolf

Member
Apparently Doggies Nuts is a dual purpose entity, selling beans and also funding dog spay/neuter clinics, hence the name. Even so, it seems like utter "nuttiness" to payy these kind of prices for unproven F1s.:roll:
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
i bought some Northern Lights #1 (fem) from doggies nuts last year. northern lights #1 from mendocino area in the 90's was hands down dankest kushy/diesley strain in the world, and it was before i knew any sour deisle/og kush strains existed. i have been on the search for the real deal for some years now and have not found it. i was very excited to try these beans hoping they would at least resemble that old school. the super expensive price made me think it was a winner. i popped 6 nl's and only 1 made it. i cloned the mom and filled up 2/3rds of my room with them. a few weeks in they already looked super icey and dense golf balls, average smell. i went out of state for 10 days, had someone watch my room... came back... open herm flowers, pollen everywhere. on all of my proven dank romulan clones, the chem 91's clones, sage and sour. the legend og ... bummer. i spent tons on the seeds and tons on electricity just to tear them all down. they are unstable genetics, but they might be dank. i will still sprout the remaining few beans for outdoors and pay better attention to herms this time and give em dutch master reverse if i have to. i will not buy these beans again though. way too expensive(215bucksfor 10 beans) and way unstable.
You're right that the original Northern Lights was awesome (grew it myself about 15 years ago), but I think you're going to be fairly disappointed in "Doggies Nuts" version.

See my post earlier in this thread about the "Smirnoff effect".

I've heard that Doggie's Nuts is defunct, the owner was in fact the same one in charge of "Pukka" ceeds, and he's a fairly disreputable character. Chance of this companies Northern lights being better than 20 other generic versions is pretty slim to zero and I have yet to see a positive grow report on any DN strain. If I were you, I'd cut my losses and move on instead of wasting time trying to polish a turd.

If you want to know who has the best Northern lights rendition currently, there are multiple threads on this if you do a search for them (see below).

Dr. Atomic's name comes up a lot as one of the better ones. PeakSeedsBC is another name mentioned, and a few others:

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/419637-who-sells-best-northern-lights.html

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/556808-who-sells-best-northern-lights.html

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/598563-who-do-you-think-has-2.html
 
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