EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Hey moron, you realize Bill Clinton destroyed the fire-wall between commercial and investment banking with the repeal of Glass-Steagal and then signed NAFTA that has definitively shipped jobs overseas. The companies were allowed to borrow money at interest-rates designed for john-q-public to complete M&A deals that ship production overseas where they cannot be taxed. If there is such a problem with rich people not paying any taxes, why do democrats keep making it legal for them to do so? TPP now and Obamacare killing the labor market domestically? Yeah, really for us working folks.

You realize people thought Obama was a change agent and worshiped him as some kind of messiah on his way into office. I'm sure you were alive to hear the "Hope and Change" bullshit. Then he proceeded to start more wars than Bush and bail out banks. Are you not seeing a pattern here?
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I don't understand. You are saying that Bill Clinton, by himself repealed Glass-Steagal? Then by himself drafted and signed NAFTA? Then by himself shipped jobs overseas? I guess the Republican Congress was too busy looking at stained dresses at the time to act as a functioning legislature. Lazy perverts.

And here I thought that Republicans pushed through that banking act repeal.

Oh, and what about the Bush administration's decision to let banks just regulate themselves when it came to Credit Default Swaps. Was that Clinton's doing too? You know, if the repeal of Glass Steagal was such a dumb thing for Clinton to do, why wasn't it re-instated when those sane and safe Republicans took complete charge of all three branches of the govt a few years later?

I have so much to learn from you.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
This is exactly what I mean. You have to let the market correct itself. Monopolies are created by interventionism and obstructionism on the part of government regulators. It is a collusion problem and a price-fixing problem. Look no further than the precious metals markets. Clear manipulation that has been proven by a court of law multiple times, nothing changes.

If Bernie Sanders is elected and makes it illegal for companies to do tax-inversions, the structural changes to the business culture of the United States will be fundamentally affected by knock-on effects. More government intervention in small business. Have you ever started a small business? It's almost impenetrable, the amount of legalese you have to decode.

The way to stop these companies from shipping jobs overseas is to cut off the free-money conduit. M&A deals are incredibly expensive (recent $100billion M&A deal with Astrazeneca and Pfizer), these companies can afford to do them because they have access to free money at 0.001% interest. If you have a mosquito problem, you don't try to kill them all individually, you drain the standing water. Remove the punch bowl.
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Here again, I don't understand. So, Bernie Sanders by himself will make it illegal for companies to do tax inversions? Doesn't Congress have a say in tax codes? This is all so complicated. I'm glad you are around to explain.

Also, during an era of laissez faire policies when no regulation was in its heyday, Standard Oil completely dominated the oil market to the point of monopoly. Same thing happened to meat packing and railroads became monopolies in their own markets. So 'splain me this, the worst monopolies ever seen in this country was during a time of unregulated markets. Yet you say regulation creates monopolies. How odd. I'm so glad you are here to clarify this.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Here's where you aren't wrong but you aren't right at the same time. I'm not defending republicans by any stretch. I have a moral obligation to detest any person that would knowingly kill civilians for money. Both parties are rotten to the core. They are both sponsored by the exact same list of banks and financial institutions, and use congress like an open floor for insider trading.

You realized that people called the old monopolists "Robber Barons" for a reason. They were clearly breaking the law and the government was letting them do it. Market fundamentals are always obstructed by government intervention. In a normalized free-market, there wouldn't be thugs breaking up labor organization with violence and police brutality. Marginal producers would always discover the price of a commodity because cartel politics are not being enforced under threat of reprisals.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Here's where you aren't wrong but you aren't right at the same time. I'm not defending republicans by any stretch. I have a moral obligation to detest any person that would knowingly kill civilians for money. Both parties are rotten to the core. They are both sponsored by the exact same list of banks and financial institutions, and use congress like an open floor for insider trading.

You realized that people called the old monopolists "Robber Barons" for a reason. They were clearly breaking the law and the government was letting them do it. Market fundamentals are always obstructed by government intervention. In a normalized free-market, there wouldn't be thugs breaking up labor organization with violence and police brutality. Marginal producers would always discover the price of a commodity because cartel politics are not being enforced under threat of reprisals.
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You spout unfounded economic theory. I assert that unregulated markets -- as demonstrated in the past -- end in monopoly. The big keep getting bigger, take advantage of scale and drive out the competition. You've said nothing other than generalized theory.

Also, are you running away from your assertion that Bill Clinton on his own deregulated banks and caused the credit default swap disaster?
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
No, Clinton could have vetoed it though. Jimmy Carter removed the cap on the amount of interest a lender could charge in the case of consumer credit issuance. It's been both sides of the isle, there are no parties, just people that work for the bank with different colored ties.

The past was characterized by using state violence against labor organizations, and then labor organizations using state violence against factory owners. What's wrong with that picture? It's the state violence interfering with free-markets. You can deny reality, but it doesn't make quantitative easing work.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Further proof: Bitcoin, based on purist free market fundamentals and an unimpeachable ledger disintermediating transactions. Bitcoin has been the best performing currency worldwide for 4 of the last 5 years. Bitcoin. The non-entity is performing better than US treasury notes in terms of value retention and investment. To deny free market principles being highly effective at correcting bankster fraud is to deny reality at this point.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Further proof: Bitcoin, based on purist free market fundamentals and an unimpeachable ledger disintermediating transactions. Bitcoin has been the best performing currency worldwide for 4 of the last 5 years. Bitcoin. The non-entity is performing better than US treasury notes in terms of value retention and investment. To deny free market principles being highly effective at correcting bankster fraud is to deny reality at this point.
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bitcoin??? sounding like modrama
 
R

red w. blue

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Further proof: Bitcoin, based on purist free market fundamentals and an unimpeachable ledger disintermediating transactions. Bitcoin has been the best performing currency worldwide for 4 of the last 5 years. Bitcoin. The non-entity is performing better than US treasury notes in terms of value retention and investment. To deny free market principles being highly effective at correcting bankster fraud is to deny reality at this point.
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Looks like your fogged in.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Further proof: Bitcoin, based on purist free market fundamentals and an unimpeachable ledger disintermediating transactions. Bitcoin has been the best performing currency worldwide for 4 of the last 5 years. Bitcoin. The non-entity is performing better than US treasury notes in terms of value retention and investment. To deny free market principles being highly effective at correcting bankster fraud is to deny reality at this point.
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Unimpeachable? True, they can't be impeached. Arrested maybe. Gox Bitcoin Japan ring a bell? You have denied reality many times.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
No, Clinton could have vetoed it though. Jimmy Carter removed the cap on the amount of interest a lender could charge in the case of consumer credit issuance. It's been both sides of the isle, there are no parties, just people that work for the bank with different colored ties.

The past was characterized by using state violence against labor organizations, and then labor organizations using state violence against factory owners. What's wrong with that picture? It's the state violence interfering with free-markets. You can deny reality, but it doesn't make quantitative easing work.
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Dude, deregulation of banks has been giving right wing nuts the hots for a long time. Also deregulation of everything else. I'm just pointing out that banks, markets, food distributors, consumer products, mines, farmers, all go right to the lowest level of behavior without regulation. Its been demonstrated again and again. You say others are deranged but I submit that wild eyed free market theorists have no basis behind their theory. Just STFU if that's all you've got.

On a personal note, you have called people morons, irritating kids, and other denigrating terms. We are adults and can handle it but until you start spouting more than libertarian free market gobblety gook, you can't be taken seriously. You may not a total idiot, after all, you are pretty good at regurgitating Right Wing propaganda. But get off the fucking pillar of wisdom. A tool and a fool is what you really are.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I don't understand. You are saying that Bill Clinton, by himself repealed Glass-Steagal? Then by himself drafted and signed NAFTA? Then by himself shipped jobs overseas? I guess the Republican Congress was too busy looking at stained dresses at the time to act as a functioning legislature. Lazy perverts.

And here I thought that Republicans pushed through that banking act repeal.

Oh, and what about the Bush administration's decision to let banks just regulate themselves when it came to Credit Default Swaps. Was that Clinton's doing too? You know, if the repeal of Glass Steagal was such a dumb thing for Clinton to do, why wasn't it re-instated when those sane and safe Republicans took complete charge of all three branches of the govt a few years later?

I have so much to learn from you.
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:clap:
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Dude, deregulation of banks has been giving right wing nuts the hots for a long time. Also deregulation
of everything else. I'm just pointing out that banks, markets, food distributors, consumer products, mines, farmers, all go right to the lowest level of behavior without regulation. Its been demonstrated again and again. You say others are deranged but I submit that wild eyed free market theorists have no basis behind their theory. Just STFU if that's all you've got.

On a personal note, you have called people morons, irritating kids, and other denigrating terms. We are adults and can handle it but until you start spouting more than libertarian free market gobblety gook, you can't be taken seriously. You may not a total idiot, after all, you are pretty good at regurgitating Right Wing propaganda. But get off the fucking pillar of wisdom. A tool and a fool is what you really are.
Click to expand...
:clap:
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
Further proof: Bitcoin, based on purist free market fundamentals and an unimpeachable ledger disintermediating transactions. Bitcoin has been the best performing currency worldwide for 4 of the last 5 years. Bitcoin. The non-entity is performing better than US treasury notes in terms of value retention and investment. To deny free market principles being highly effective at correcting bankster fraud is to deny reality at this point.
Click to expand...
Bitcoin does well because of its ability to be used in less than savory transactions. Period.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Dude, deregulation of banks has been giving right wing nuts the hots for a long time. Also deregulation of everything else. I'm just pointing out that banks, markets, food distributors, consumer products, mines, farmers, all go right to the lowest level of behavior without regulation. Its been demonstrated again and again. You say others are deranged but I submit that wild eyed free market theorists have no basis behind their theory. Just STFU if that's all you've got.

On a personal note, you have called people morons, irritating kids, and other denigrating terms. We are adults and can handle it but until you start spouting more than libertarian free market gobblety gook, you can't be taken seriously. You may not a total idiot, after all, you are pretty good at regurgitating Right Wing propaganda. But get off the fucking pillar of wisdom. A tool and a fool is what you really are.
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That was all an ad hominem attack. Nicely done.
You aren't providing any examples. Bitcoin, please counter. You just state the opinion you hold that there is some kind of "lowest level of behavior" to revert to. That isn't a structured argument.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
"HSBC was accused of failing to monitor more than $670 billion in wire transfers and more than $9.4 billion in purchases of U.S. currency from HSBC Mexico, allowing for money laundering, prosecutors said. The bank also violated U.S. economic sanctions against Iran, Libya, Sudan, Burma and Cuba, according to a criminal information filed in the case."

From Bloomberg, after all. Tell me again how Bitcoin is the money of drug dealers and thieves.
 
Queece

Queece

Well-Known Member
You guys need to start providing sources, my arguments are inherently more valid as they are based on reality and not the opinion of John Oliver last night. I'm not seeing any kind of rebuttal, if you want to call me crazy, fine, but that's an opinion. I'm not stating opinions, I'm merely analyzing causes and effects from my best attempt to establish a historically accurate vantage. That is done so by constructing syllogisms from factual events and the consequences there-of. These are not wild conjecture.

This is not free market capitalism:
http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/568163
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Queece said:
You guys need to start providing sources, my arguments are inherently more valid as they are based on reality and not the opinion of John Oliver last night. I'm not seeing any kind of rebuttal, if you want to call me crazy, fine, but that's an opinion. I'm not stating opinions, I'm merely analyzing causes and effects from my best attempt to establish a historically accurate vantage. That is done so by constructing syllogisms from factual events and the consequences there-of. These are not wild conjecture.

This is not free market capitalism:
http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/568163
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you're crazy
 
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