Eric Holder cleared in Fast and Furious

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Just another one to blame on Dubya. Holder didn't even know about it.

You cumstains can try all you want to declare victory, but the gun walking started on Dubya's watch and ended on Obama's.

Now you want to blame Holder for his ignorance in a cheap attempt to shrug the real guilt from the GOP. You lost.
 

kelly4

Well-Known Member
i'm curious, sinc abandon intellect is furiously trying to conceal his own claims of the existence of the "Holder Memo" do you actually LIKE Regular Show? or are you using it as your image ironically?
Yeah, I think Regular Show is great. My son got me hooked on that and Adventure Time. Both shows are extremely well written for what they are. For anyone who hasn't seen these shows, I recommend getting good and baked and checking them out.




Wanna know who else likes adventure time?

MY MOM!
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
Just another one to blame on Dubya. Holder didn't even know about it.

You cumstains can try all you want to declare victory, but the gun walking started on Dubya's watch and ended on Obama's.

Now you want to blame Holder for his ignorance in a cheap attempt to shrug the real guilt from the GOP. You lost.
Please prove to me that Operation fast and Furious started under Bush. Or are you purposely being self delusional?
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
Operation Wide Receiver did. Fast and furious was authorized at much lower levels and hidden from Holder, Dubya set a precedent.
Oh that isn't what I asked, I knew very well about Wide Receiver but it isn't the Fast and Furious. FF was a larger scale and handled poorly and if it wasn't for whistle blowers would have continued.

By June 2010, suspects had purchased 1,608 firearms at a cost of over US$1 million at Phoenix-area gun shops. At that time, the ATF was also aware of 179 of those weapons being found at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the United States.[SUP][8][/SUP] As guns traced to Fast and Furious began turning up at violent crime scenes in Mexico, ATF agents stationed there also voiced opposition.
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
The ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department of Justice’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[SUP][4][/SUP]
ATF had determined that the Mexican cartels had become the leading gun trafficking organizations operating in the southwest U.S. and is working in collaboration with other agencies and the Government of Mexico to expand the eTrace firearm tracing software system.[SUP][5][/SUP] eTrace provides web based access to ATF’s Firearms Tracing System to allow law enforcement both domestically and internationally the ability to trace firearms encountered in connection with a criminal investigation to the first recorded purchaser[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] (who may have innocently sold the gun years ago). eTrace allows law enforcement to access their trace results directly (name and address of first purchaser) and offers the ability to generate statistical reports to analyze their trace data to estimate firearms trafficking trends or patterns.
ATF announced a goal to deploy eTrace software to all thirty-one states within the Republic of Mexico. As part of eTrace expansion, ATF continues to provide training to Mexican and Central American countries to ensure that the technology is utilized to a greater extent.[SUP][5][/SUP] Colombia and Mexico were provided with their own in-country tracing centers with full access to ATF firearm registration records. In Colombia, a joint ATF-CNP Center for Anti-Explosives Information and Firearms Tracing (CIARA) opened on December 6, 2006.[SUP][9][/SUP] In Mexico, The National Center for Information, Analysis and Planning in order to Fight Crime (CENAPI) was established in 2003. ATF states these are models for planned future tracing centers throughout Central and South America and the Caribbean Basin.[SUP][10][/SUP] In December, 2009, ATF announced deployment of a Spanish version of eTrace to Mexico, Guatemala and Costa Rica. A planned second phase will release the software to all Spanish-speaking countries with agreements with ATF. In June 2011 Congress opened an investigation into Project Gunrunner against the ATF, as some ATF agents have come forward stating that top heads in ATF and the Department of Justice instructed the agents to encourage gun stores in the U.S. to sell assault-style weapons to Mexican firearm traffickers.
In 2009, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009[SUP][11][/SUP] provided $40 million to state and local law enforcement agencies. This money was primarily slated for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the southern border; and, in high-intensity drug trafficking areas, to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the southern border. $10 million of the money was to be transferred to the BATF for Project Gunrunner to hire personnel and open facilities in 6 new locations. The use of "stimulus" money to fund Project Gunrunner is controversial, given the ATF Phoenix Field Division's reported initiative of allowing known criminals to purchase guns in an effort to gain intelligence on the cartels (Operation Fast and Furious).

Taken from Wikipedia.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
The ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department of Justice’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[SUP][4][/SUP]
ATF had determined that the Mexican cartels had become the leading gun trafficking organizations operating in the southwest U.S. and is working in collaboration with other agencies and the Government of Mexico to expand the eTrace firearm tracing software system.[SUP][5][/SUP] eTrace provides web based access to ATF’s Firearms Tracing System to allow law enforcement both domestically and internationally the ability to trace firearms encountered in connection with a criminal investigation to the first recorded purchaser[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] (who may have innocently sold the gun years ago). eTrace allows law enforcement to access their trace results directly (name and address of first purchaser) and offers the ability to generate statistical reports to analyze their trace data to estimate firearms trafficking trends or patterns.
ATF announced a goal to deploy eTrace software to all thirty-one states within the Republic of Mexico. As part of eTrace expansion, ATF continues to provide training to Mexican and Central American countries to ensure that the technology is utilized to a greater extent.[SUP][5][/SUP] Colombia and Mexico were provided with their own in-country tracing centers with full access to ATF firearm registration records. In Colombia, a joint ATF-CNP Center for Anti-Explosives Information and Firearms Tracing (CIARA) opened on December 6, 2006.[SUP][9][/SUP] In Mexico, The National Center for Information, Analysis and Planning in order to Fight Crime (CENAPI) was established in 2003. ATF states these are models for planned future tracing centers throughout Central and South America and the Caribbean Basin.[SUP][10][/SUP] In December, 2009, ATF announced deployment of a Spanish version of eTrace to Mexico, Guatemala and Costa Rica. A planned second phase will release the software to all Spanish-speaking countries with agreements with ATF. In June 2011 Congress opened an investigation into Project Gunrunner against the ATF, as some ATF agents have come forward stating that top heads in ATF and the Department of Justice instructed the agents to encourage gun stores in the U.S. to sell assault-style weapons to Mexican firearm traffickers.
In 2009, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009[SUP][11][/SUP] provided $40 million to state and local law enforcement agencies. This money was primarily slated for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the southern border; and, in high-intensity drug trafficking areas, to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the southern border. $10 million of the money was to be transferred to the BATF for Project Gunrunner to hire personnel and open facilities in 6 new locations. The use of "stimulus" money to fund Project Gunrunner is controversial, given the ATF Phoenix Field Division's reported initiative of allowing known criminals to purchase guns in an effort to gain intelligence on the cartels (Operation Fast and Furious).

Taken from Wikipedia.
You missed this part

[h=3]2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious[/h]
[h=3]2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious[/h]
[h=3]2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious[/h]
[h=3]2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious[/h]
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Oh that isn't what I asked, I knew very well about Wide Receiver but it isn't the Fast and Furious. FF was a larger scale and handled poorly and if it wasn't for whistle blowers would have continued.

By June 2010, suspects had purchased 1,608 firearms at a cost of over US$1 million at Phoenix-area gun shops. At that time, the ATF was also aware of 179 of those weapons being found at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the United States.[SUP][8][/SUP] As guns traced to Fast and Furious began turning up at violent crime scenes in Mexico, ATF agents stationed there also voiced opposition.
I never said fast and furious was started on Dubya's watch. I said gun walking was. By the way, Holder didn't even know about it.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
I never said fast and furious was started on Dubya's watch. I said gun walking was. By the way, Holder didn't even know about it.
The program was fired up in 2009 if holder didn't know then he should be fired easy enough. Ignorance is not an excuses never has been and never will.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Operation Wide Receiver did. Fast and furious was authorized at much lower levels and hidden from Holder, Dubya set a precedent.
bush2 admin's small plan to send a few weapons with tracking devices down south to find out where they go is in no way comparable to Fast 'n' Furious's plan to open wholesale distribution networks of BATF owned firearms in mexico with no way to track or even document the movement of said guns.

Holder dropped the ball, and is trying to blame "wide receiver" when it's obvious this play came from a shitty QB with no leadership over his squad, and no concept of the offense or defense on the gridiron.

a shitty QB was placed on the first string by a shitty coach (thats barry seotoro for the football disinclined) and this resulted in a shitty season, shameful showings in the rankings, and failure to achieve even moderate success on the field.

It's time to fire the coach, bench the first string QB and bring in the backup quarterback with a new playbook, and a better coach, maybe somebody from a team with a winning record.... like maybe massachussetts? i know, the texas teams are better, but we cant even woo their defensive coordinators to come to fucking washington to take over a team so entrenched in failure.

a few seasons in a position other than the basement might make the redskins a more appealing choice for some of the up-and-comers from the winning teams.

dare i suggest a Schwarzenegger/Rubio coaching team for 2016?

after all if Barry Seotoro can be president despite the constitution, why not Arnold. at least he is SOME kind of citizen.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
The program was fired up in 2009 if holder didn't know then he should be fired easy enough. Ignorance is not an excuses never has been and never will.
by the way, the office of the inspector general found that there was a huge cover up to hide fast and furious from Holder
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
You missed this part

2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious


2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious


2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious


2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious
Apparently (per usual), your dumb ass didn't bother to read the last paragraph.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
by the way, the office of the inspector general found that there was a huge cover up to hide fast and furious from Holder
Really, then why doesn't he come out and say that? Why did Obama exercise executive privilege from releasing information? Doesn't sound like a cover up of a cover up to me.....This thing stinks all the way up to the top.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
again i say, provide me with this "Holder Memo" you constantly harp on.

ill just wait right here while you find it.

dumm dee dum, doodly doodly dooo...

fuckit, ill make it easy for you, there is no "Holder Memo" one deputy AG published a memo stating the president's desire that individuals and organizations acting within state law and not engaged in interstate commerce should be left alone. the memo at question was buried under a FUSILLADE of responding memos making it quite clear from soup to nuts that the position of the AG's office is that the controlled substances act is IN FORCE and will be ENFORCED with every power at the AG office's disposal regardless of the details of El Presidente's campaign promises, the state's laws or the US Constitution. all the while, Cockbreath, and Barry Seotoro held themselves above the fray and let their minions handle the messy work of suppressing the right of the states to pass their own laws, and enforce them and attempting to compel state and local law officers and sheriffs to enforce federal regulations, while Barry, Cockbreath and the lads simultaneously tried to force Arizona to NOT uphold federal law that they found objectionable.

of course you will find a way to wiggle out of this intellectual checkmate which Barry and Cockbreath have forced you into, where the unconstitutional regulatory mandate of the Controlled Substances Act is treated as holy writ, while the federal immigration laws which were passed by congress and signed by a (democrat) president are considered racist claptrap fit only for the bin.

meanwhile, Cockbreath's underlings freely and without concern for the legality of their actions give guns to drug cartel members for the express purpose of "walking" (cuz "gun running" is too negative and prejudicial and accurate.) them into mexico in violation of US law, mexican law and international law.

the result is :

A: Holder Knew, and is therefore a felon and should be arrested and then extradited to mexico to face the charges of gun smuggling and corruption.

B: Holder Knew Nothing, and is therefore an incompetent boob who deserves to be shitcanned.

C: Holder AND Seotoro Knew, thus they are BOTH felons and deserving of an extended stay in the mexico city jail and eventually a delightfully South-Of-The-Border style criminal proceeding.

D: Both Holder and Seotoro Knew Nothing in which case they are both bumbling fools who allowed their underlings to engage in all manner of hijinx while they did jello shots with the party clowns and psychics at the GAO hoedown in Vegas.

there is no good spin to put on holder's Fast 'n' Furious failure, only the stink of incompetence that could rise all the way to the top of the shitpile, while the obvious disinterest in the laws of the states and the rights of the people vis a vis the cannabis situation is shameful, and he must either accept responsibility for his actions or once again blame underlings who do not follow orders

with regards to the arizona situation, that fetid turd came tumbling down from the top of the dungheap, squeezed from between the broad buttocks of Barry Seotoro himself, and ushered into the world by Cockbreath acting as midwife to that noisome filth. you cant even begin to doge that one. it's all over you and the entirety of the left. y'all caught the spray before the clumps landed at your feet. whats really funny is you all seem so eager to wipe Barry's tushy now that he's done shitting all over you.
Damn, Kyne, you do have a way with words.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I never said fast and furious was started on Dubya's watch. I said gun walking was. By the way, Holder didn't even know about it.
dubya's ag 's plan (which dubya signed off on and had the participation of mexican federal police, by the way!) was to insert a FEW guns with GPS devices in them into the mexican market to track the movement of mexican illegal guns WITH the participation and assistence of the mexican authorities.

Holder's plan (and since he is the man in charge he IS responsible) was wholesale distribution of untracked untraced guns from BATF's stash into the mexican black market without the knowledge of the mexican government in what can only be called GUN RUNNING not "Gun Walking"

attempting to balme bush for a tiny pilot program which had the approval of mexican officials,and a plan to track the guns, which was abandoned when it proved unworkable is in no way comparable to a massive waste of "stimulus" money to sell guns on th emxican black market without any input from the mexican government, and without even informing them of the plan.

your partisan panties are showing, get a longer skirt or cross your legs sweetie. otherwise it just looks trashy. you dirty whore.

not that theres anything wrong with dirty whores, i LOVE dirty whores.

sluts with no morals really takes the pressure off a dude who just wants a quickie in the back seat of a buick.
 

nontheist

Well-Known Member
Apparently (per usual), your dumb ass didn't bother to read the last paragraph.
Well why didn't you answer my question in a normal manner? No nontheist bush had nothing to do with Fast and Furious as all evidence points. It would be very hard to blame something on someone that wasn't even there. Instead I am going to post about operations from the past that was very well managed and has nothing to do with FandF but if I keep doing that maybe someone will believe me.....
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Really, then why doesn't he come out and say that? Why did Obama exercise executive privilege from releasing information? Doesn't sound like a cover up of a cover up to me.....This thing stinks all the way up to the top.
by the way, all of the documents concealed by executive privilege are now available through the office of the inspector general
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
prove me wrong, provide me with the "Holder Memo" that says states can have their own laws on cannabis, and the AG will not "focus" on patienrts and caregivers. if it exists im sure it will be enlightening.

I am gonna help AC out on this one. A link to "the memo" is included below. I also c/p the next to paragraph, which says in essence, go ahead and bust/prosecute anybody you, all preceding paragraphs not withstanding. "The memo" says absolutely nothing although it does take about 500 words to arrive at that destination.

"Finally, nothing herein precludes investigation or prosecution where there is a reasonable basis to believe that compliance with state law is being invoked as a pretext for the production or distribution of marijuana for purposes not authorized by state law. Nor does this guidance preclude investigation or prosecution, even when there is clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law, in particular circumstances where investigation or prosecution otherwise serves important federal interests."

http://blogs.justice.gov/main/archives/192
 
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