Effects of ISR/SAR at various weeks of flowering

sirtalis

sirtalis

Well-Known Member
Hi seasoned growers,

I recently dove into the rabbit hole of understanding ISR/SAR as a preventative for disease, and I noticed there is some conflicting anecdotal information about the timing and effects of using products that induce these responses. There seems to be real scientific evidence of disease prevention, mixed with some possible broscience claims of increased trichome production. Some growers also report reduced yields if used during flower, as plants are focusing attention on defense rather than growth.

I'm curious if you have experience with the effects of spraying or root drenching Regalia (giant knotweed extract) / chitosan / salicylic acid etc. at various times during flower?

It seems like there's no doubt about frontloading plants in veg and then easing off during flower, but I'm wondering if anyone has specifically looked at the effects during flower.

Curious to hear your thoughts / experiences.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
sirtalis said:
Hi seasoned growers,

I recently dove into the rabbit hole of understanding ISR/SAR as a preventative for disease, and I noticed there is some conflicting anecdotal information about the timing and effects of using products that induce these responses. There seems to be real scientific evidence of disease prevention, mixed with some possible broscience claims of increased trichome production. Some growers also report reduced yields if used during flower, as plants are focusing attention on defense rather than growth.

I'm curious if you have experience with the effects of spraying or root drenching Regalia (giant knotweed extract) / chitosan / salicylic acid etc. at various times during flower?

It seems like there's no doubt about frontloading plants in veg and then easing off during flower, but I'm wondering if anyone has specifically looked at the effects during flower.

Curious to hear your thoughts / experiences.
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They aren't "broscience" claims, they are claims based on actual research that show an increase in essential oil (among other things) in a wide variety of crops. ISR/SAR has been studied in depth for decades, just none of the research looks at cannabis. A lot of soil organisms trigger the SAR response too. This is just a personal opinion that happens to be shared by many people, but I've always found soil grown cannabis, whether "organic" or grown with mineral salts, to be superior in many aspects to hydro grown cannabis. Why is that? I've wondered for decades and feel like the microbiome is the most likely culprit. I'm sold on both aspirin (just 2 doses, spray and root drench) and Chitosan. Regalia is great stuff, but I wouldn't use it unless you A. have money to burn or B. have had a previous issue with PM in your grow space. A healthy microbiome will do more for you than Regalia. If you guys are interested in this type of thing, look up the studies on post harvest treatment of various crops (like grapes) with salicylic acid and consider the possible post harvest benefits to cannabis.
 
natureboygrower

natureboygrower

Well-Known Member
I'd love it if all it took was a healthy soil to avoid pm outdoors. I run a water only soil with occasional top dressing if needed. I composted over 2000 lobster body shells in 2019, but have only used it in my indoor mix. Maybe next year I'll get some in my outdoor and see if there are any benefits. Are you all talking indoor growing or out?

Yes regalia is $70 quart but at 1-2 tbs a gallon, it will easily last me 2 seasons and so far i am happy with the results. It's been a wet summer, fall will be wetter. Plants are going into flower so I'll be stopping that application and just topdress with frass sparingly.
 
sirtalis

sirtalis

Well-Known Member
Chungayuwoki said:
I choose to grow in healthy soil instead of wasting time money and brain cells on perpetual retail products.
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I understand that, and I agree that healthy soil is king. I don't understand why you're assuming my soil isn't healthy in the first place.

My growing environment is not hospitable for cannabis, so I'm looking for ways to boost my plants' immune systems beyond healthy soil. It's perpetually 90-100% humidity, with a nursery nearby that imports new pests on a seemingly annual basis. If you want to grow au naturale, by all means I have nothing against it. In my backyard, I'd end up with budrot, PM, caterpillars, aphids, scale etc etc.


Rurumo said:
They aren't "broscience" claims, they are claims based on actual research that show an increase in essential oil (among other things) in a wide variety of crops. ISR/SAR has been studied in depth for decades, just none of the research looks at cannabis. A lot of soil organisms trigger the SAR response too. This is just a personal opinion that happens to be shared by many people, but I've always found soil grown cannabis, whether "organic" or grown with mineral salts, to be superior in many aspects to hydro grown cannabis. Why is that? I've wondered for decades and feel like the microbiome is the most likely culprit. I'm sold on both aspirin (just 2 doses, spray and root drench) and Chitosan. Regalia is great stuff, but I wouldn't use it unless you A. have money to burn or B. have had a previous issue with PM in your grow space. A healthy microbiome will do more for you than Regalia. If you guys are interested in this type of thing, look up the studies on post harvest treatment of various crops (like grapes) with salicylic acid and consider the possible post harvest benefits to cannabis.
Click to expand...
Awesome info, thank you. It's easy to believe the ISR/SAR benefits, but when it comes to cannabis there's always a bit of doubt when I hear "trichome boosters". I'll check out the studies.
 
natureboygrower

natureboygrower

Well-Known Member
I absolutely agree that healthy soil can thwart potential problems. But how do we achieve that soil? When do inputs end?

I do look at my compost as an evolving process, maybe I should do the same with my outdoor pots.
 
sirtalis

sirtalis

Well-Known Member
Ah ok it turns out the second poster is a troll.


@Rurumo, have you ever tried spraying chitosan during flowering? I'd think there's a balancing act between the right dosage and frequency depending on the phase of the plant's life.

Next year I'll for sure be loading the plant up during veg.

Maybe the correct way is to go frequently during veg, stop during budset, and resume chitosan after the swell?
 
Cannabisco

Cannabisco

Active Member
Google SAR vs JAR
I use chitin & (Aspirin) salicylic acid for SAR
Harpin Proteins for JAR, very potent but different than jaz or jasmonic acid for ripening.
Never together because SAR/JAR will crosstalk.
I use SAR 3 times in a grow. 1 in veg, 1 in preflower & 1 in mid bloom.
I use harpin proteins in preflower to early bloom before bud forms.
 
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