Ebb and flow - Moscow Blueberry and Ice Cream

Hi Rollitup, this is my journal.

First off I apologize for the HPS pics, but it is all I have in the grow room. Seeing as this is not about diagnosing plant problems I hope it will be okay.

Well this is my first time trying Ebb and Flow in a long time. I started this grow off by building a 9x14 tent out of a plastic roll I had left over. Then I built the table on milk crates and 3/4 inch plywood. My table is 8x4.

For this run I am trying something new, 3'x 8'' Rockwool slabs with 4'' cubes on top. When the cubes rooted I put them on the slabs. I figured more root-room, more buds. We'll see. I have 3x600Watt and 1x400Watt over the table for a total of 2200 Watts. I have an 80 gallon reservoir. I took a bunch of clones from my outdoor plants and that is what I started with. Moscow Blueberry by Kalashnokov
seeds and Ice Cream by Paradise Seeds are the strains. I clone in Rockwool trays and adding bleach to the soak has increased my success to close to 100% (actually last clone run was 100% survival).

Nutrients: DNF (Dutch Nutrient Formula), Calimagic by GH
Water: RO, then Ozonate, then Active Carbon filtration
Lights: 3x600, 1x400
Table: 8x4
Reservoir: 80 gallons
Veg: 3-4 weeks, top once
Strains: Moscow Blueberry by Kalashnokov Seeds and Ice Cream by Paradise Seeds


Here is one of the clones I put on the table. I opened it to check roots:



First here is a pic of the room and table. I'd have more plants on the table but I'm limited by my medical registration. I will top all plants and then create my first scrog net. The holes will be roughly 4''.




Then I topped them and added a home built scrog net. It was my first ever so don't be too hard on me. It was made so I can raise and lower it. And learn from my mistakes. Here are the clones around 10 days on the table. The had a rough ride initially due to an issue with my well water which I detail in the thread "Water Problems" in the Marijuana Plant Problems forum. They were still sick at this point, before I found the solution. Anyways I built the scrog net dreaming of better days. And better days did come!



This is them after I fixed my well water problem 2 weeks later, at this point they are about 2 days into flower:



I took these tonight - 6 days into 12/12, turning into monsters! I have a bit of stretch, that's okay for me, doing the best I can to make temp and humidity ambient:



This is the state of the tops a day or two ago, I'm pretty happy with the number of tops I have gotten from topping and scrogging:



Whether I will prune some of the fan leaves or not, I don't know. I know it is a contentious topic. My thoughts have always been that the fan leaves are your factories for bud production, but I have seen some impressive results with guys pruning the shit outta things. What does the internets think?

Nice, I'm subbed.

Well no one has got back to me, so I have decided to trim the fans, but only those that are blocking potential "medium" cola tops. That is a balance I think we all can agree on?

I'm a bit bummed tonight because I completely snapped two tops trying to LST them. They are too high now above the net to do anything, and it's too dense. I put super glue on the snaps to prevent any bugs or mold. It wasn't enough to put Humpty-Dumpty back together again though.

On the upside I estimate I have well over 200 tops. Not bad from 26 plants. Anyways still bummed. Those two would have produced a lot.

Lesson learned, don't try and micro manage the tops. Let shit work itself out. Respect the tops and raise the light. Don't touch what isn't broken.

Still no courage to trim my plants...Some are stretching a bit more than others, and unless I built a second, higher net, they will be different heights. Anyways after I took this picture I pinched a bunch of tops lst style to even out the canopy height a bit. One of the tops I broke the other night is responding and bent back up even after it broke clean off...I super-glued it back on then duck taped it. Didn't manage to save the other one though, but 1 out of 2 ain't bad Water problems are definitely solved, plants are going nuts. Think it is day 8 of 12/12...temperature is 80F/63H. I bought a new strong floor fan to pull the AC into the tent, so that has brought humidity down 10 degrees and the tent has great airflow.

HotWaterKarl said:

Lesson learned, don't try and micro manage the tops. Let shit work itself out. Respect the tops and raise the light. Don't touch what isn't broken.

Click to expand...

Hey dude, nice looking grow. With regards to scrogs I have found that you need to gently work the stems back and forth to stretch the tissues before final placement. Especially if it is a really tight bend or, as you now know, the stem will break. I will be watching the rest as you go. Happy Growing.
-FJ

Do you plan to remove all the lower budsites at day 21 of flowering?
-FJ

Farmer J BCNL said:

Do you plan to remove all the lower budsites at day 21 of flowering?
-FJ

Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment dude. Hope I can bring it home 7-8 weeks from now with mega buds.

Anyways as you can see in my last pic the net is about 12-18 inches below the stretched tops now. So there is no working anything back under the net unfortunately. However LST pinching works to level it out or I could use twist tie on a roll I guess.

I'm not going to bother to remove all the lower budsites, what I will do instead is chop at harvest at the net, then bud the lower half for an additional two weeks. I'll use all the lowers for oil and edibles after that, they do fatten up a bit. It's a way to stretch my yields and not have to use my top shelf buds for that. I will trim a bit, but since I topped them early they are like mutant octopus arms all stretching from the same place. Can't go just hacking off arms, every one has made it above the net.

I just ordered some Method Seven glasses for the room, so next time I can use them to take a pic of the room, and it will look blue.

HotWaterKarl said:

Thanks for the compliment dude. Hope I can bring it home 7-8 weeks from now with mega buds.

Anyways as you can see in my last pic the net is about 12-18 inches below the stretched tops now. So there is no working anything back under the net unfortunately. However LST pinching works to level it out or I could use twist tie on a roll I guess.

I'm not going to bother to remove all the lower budsites, what I will do instead is chop at harvest at the net, then bud the lower half for an additional two weeks. I'll use all the lowers for oil and edibles after that, they do fatten up a bit. It's a way to stretch my yields and not have to use my top shelf buds for that. I will trim a bit, but since I topped them early they are like mutant octopus arms all stretching from the same place. Can't go just hacking off arms, every one has made it above the net.

Click to expand...

That's a good plan, plus if you do two harvests it requires less room for drying.

Well it's day 15 of bud and the stretch is insane. I'm doing a bit of lollipoping to keep the plants focused on bud production on the upper nodes. But I can't believe the stretch. The weird thing is they are stretching where the most light is. I have 3 600W HPS and 1 400w on a 8x4 table. Under the 400 they have stretched less?? Totally bizarre...Temps were a bit high maybe 85 at the canopy top due to the weather, but now things are 80 during the day and 68-71 at night. Humidity 53% or lower. I've birthed crazy monsters...let's hope they have monster buds.. there is good light penetration into the canopy...

Subbed up.

IRRIGATION

I feel I would be remiss, if I did not add anything about how I irrigate my Ebb and Flow setup. As I mentioned I have 8 inch 3 floot slabs of wool plus 4 inch cubes that sit on top as you can see. Anyways, this is my irrigation plan (irrigation is super important and essential to get right to ensure you don't have root rot etc. especially with so much wool on the table).

So to start with I took rooted 1 inchers and put them into the 4'' on the table directly without the slabs. Then I flood them about every 5 days for the first week or so. When the 4 inchers are rooted I put the slabs on the table cut incisions and lay them on top. It is important that they do not move for the first 2 weeks. I irrigate as high as the mushroom siphon valve will allow, 1 time per week after this.

At this point I will note, people say you need to "flush" the top cubs since they accumulate salts because they do not get flooded. I don't really ascribe to this, but some people do.

Anyways, I am not even changing out my res water now that I basically can produce pure water. I just add water at the right PPM/EC to the tub. The tub is quite large though at 80 gallons.

When the plants get bigger, @ 3 per slab I irrigate every other day. Now at day 17 of bud I am irrigating 1 time per day, I think max this run will be 2 x per day @ 2.0 EC.

Cheers.

Finally got my Method 7 glasses so I can show some real lighting. Anyways I have insane stretch; here are the plants at day 18...I have been pinching/bending the ones that are growing into the lights. No heat damage yet but the lights cannot go up any further! Suggestions appreciated.....this thread is so I can learn to be a better grower as far as I am concerned. This is the max lighting I can provide..I made a mistake underestimating the stretch and putting the net so low, if I was to do it again I would put the net at the height of the tops and then bud and weave them in during the stretch. As it is I did it way too soon IMO.

Day 23 of bud..

I like buds....to fatten...mmmmm fat buds...yum...week 3.5...getting sticky...thinking yield is going to be goooood



Just what I like to see. Things look pretty healthy over all, a bit of nuteburn but looks ok I think...let me know if you think there is an issue somewhere!

Well I had some issues, I think it was acidosis in the tub. Anyways did a flush and things are back on track. But not without some leaf damage. However I think I am lucky I caught it in time and the res after flooding is staying at EC 1.5 and within range on the PH. I'm a bit of a fool and should have done regular res changes. Anyways I have a new protocol and I am doing a res pump out every week now for the final stages. Day 26 now. Also I am letting the PH drift from 5.5 to 6.1 now instead of keeping it at 5.8.

Here is some info I found on the web with regard to flood and drain and reservoir symptoms:

Water level EC pH Solution

Static Static Static - Plant not feeding/drinking, change EC, check meters. Usually, lowering the EC a little should get the plant feeding again
Static Static Rising - Ph buffers probably raising ph. This is usual. Having a static water level is not though, so again, a slight reduction in EC or a res change should resolve this.
Static Static Falling - Usual cause of this is when media has been rinsed at a lower ph than you require. The other possibility is that too much CO2 has been pumped into the water. See Note 1.Change your res and look at the volume of air pumped plus look at your air source.
Static Rising Static - Plant is leeching nutrition, raise EC. Note 2
Static Rising Rising- Plant leeching nutrition, Raise EC. An unusual state. The rising ph is probably caused by what nutrient leeching back. If these are alkaline, it will lead to the rise in ph. Could also be ph buffers.
Static Rising Falling - As above but be aware of the acid rain effect mentioned in note 1. Res change, plus increase in EC.
Static Falling Static - Plant eating but not drinking. Not ideal. Lower EC or res change
Static Falling Rising - As above but rising ph is a better sign. Lower EC slightly or res change.
Static Falling Falling- Falling ph along with falling EC but no drop in water level suggests a res change. Could also be an acid rain effect as per note 1. Depending on other symptoms, lowering EC after res change.
Falling Static Static- Perfect conditions. EC and ph are at the correct level.
Falling Static Rising- Normal state most people encounter. Nothing to worry about, carry on doing what you are doing unless other plant symptoms.
Falling Static Falling- Res change plus a change of EC. Lower EC if over 1.4, raise EC if lower than 1.0
Falling Rising Static- Plant is drinking more than eating, lower EC.
Falling Rising Rising- Plant is drinking more than eating, lower EC
Falling Rising Falling- Plant is drinking more than eating, lower EC. Also, res change due to possible acid rain problem.
Falling Falling Static- Hungry plant, raise EC. Very good situation to be in. Nute buffers are working and plant is taking a balance of nutrients.
Falling Falling Rising- Almost as above, usually considered almost perfect, raise EC slightly.
Falling Falling Falling- Res change. Potential acid rain issue but plant is still eating & drinking. Raise EC on new res.

Another thing I did is get a DI filter (post RO), and a PPM meter to measure in and out. This will tell me a) when my RO filters need changing and b) when my DI filter needs changing. The DI also reduces the PPM to 0.

Day 34...they grew too big and I need more light. Will still get some nice colas I hope