Dyna-Gro vs Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur (AK47 Grow)

dickkhead said:

in hydro over a solar storm on a flood n drain running dyna gro u recc running the full strength on the dyna chart? Seems LEDs require more nutes? I'm in week on flower and ran 1000 ppm, started in 63 ppm Tap, 350 ml gro, then I added kln, and mag pro, and bleach
I was on my 4th week of veg but my scrog was filling fast so I flipped it and decided not to change the res thinking gro will help reduce the stretch should I go full bloom now? It's been a full 7 days with those nutes and on their chart they say go full bloom but Ik you like to mix it

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I think he says the soil chart is ok, however the hydro schedule definitely seems too agressive to me. I also would tend to think the only reason led would affect nute uptake is due to the difference in evaporation from less heat of the lights. Perhaps the HID lights concentrate the nutes faster by evaporation, therefore the variable doesn't have to be accounted for as much evaporation with led. I am only guessing here, but it makes sense in my mind if it's even going to be a measureable amount.

dickkhead said:

in hydro over a solar storm on a flood n drain running dyna gro u recc running the full strength on the dyna chart? Seems LEDs require more nutes? I'm in week on flower and ran 1000 ppm, started in 63 ppm Tap, 350 ml gro, then I added kln, and mag pro, and bleach
I was on my 4th week of veg but my scrog was filling fast so I flipped it and decided not to change the res thinking gro will help reduce the stretch should I go full bloom now? It's been a full 7 days with those nutes and on their chart they say go full bloom but Ik you like to mix it

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I never go full bloom. Their bloom, IMO, doesn't supply enough N so I like to mix grow and bloom. My goal in hydro is to feed as much P and K as possible while maintaining healthy leaves. In the end though, regardless of what bottle you're using, if you're keeping plants healthy until the end then you'll get some really nice yields of outstanding medicine.

In regards to DG's hydro feeding chart, it's waaay too hot IMO. Shoot for 1.0 EC and adjust from there after a grow or two.

Trichy Bastard said:

I think he says the soil chart is ok, however the hydro schedule definitely seems too agressive to me. I also would tend to think the only reason led would affect nute uptake is due to the difference in evaporation from less heat of the lights. Perhaps the HID lights concentrate the nutes faster by evaporation, therefore the variable doesn't have to be accounted for as much evaporation with led. I am only guessing here, but it makes sense in my mind if it's even going to be a measureable amount.

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the soil chart seemed a lil low cause right now im at 10 ml per gallon of gro to drop down to 3ml ill prob see def?
from what ive been reading and I also talked to george from california light works and he says the plants will use more nutes when under leds cause there using the light more efficiently they have a higher photosynthesis rate.

homebrewer said:

I never go full bloom. Their bloom, IMO, doesn't supply enough N so I like to mix grow and bloom. My goal in hydro is to feed as much P and K as possible while maintaining healthy leaves. In the end though, regardless of what bottle you're using, if you're keeping plants healthy until the end then you'll get some really nice yields of outstanding medicine.

In regards to DG's hydro feeding chart, it's waaay too hot IMO. Shoot for 1.0 EC and adjust from there after a grow or two.

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so 700 ppm and my tap is 63 ppm and Iam using tap im gna run the mag pro, a lil bit of bleach, protekt 3ml-G, gro, and bloom prob 25%gro and the rest bloom. last week my ppm were 1000 but that also had kln and ph down contributing to that so I think ill shoot for 7-800 for my ppms
thanks guys

dickkhead said:

the soil chart seemed a lil low cause right now im at 10 ml per gallon of gro to drop down to 3ml ill prob see def?
from what ive been reading and I also talked to george from california light works and he says the plants will use more nutes when under leds cause there using the light more efficiently they have a higher photosynthesis rate.



so 700 ppm and my tap is 63 ppm and Iam using tap im gna run the mag pro, a lil bit of bleach, protekt 3ml-G, gro, and bloom prob 25%gro and the rest bloom. last week my ppm were 1000 but that also had kln and ph down contributing to that so I think ill shoot for 7-800 for my ppms
thanks guys

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Not sure about the leds being so superior, but I don't know much about them in general. I'd take everything the company says with a grain of salt, and read up on some scientific papers if available. I wanted to add that you might hold off on the bleach in the promix unless you think you have a reason to need it. You probably couldn't tell if you did anyway because you're blind to the roots. HB seems to do fine without bleach, and as I mentioned the DG has a higher amount of ammoniacal N, and that requires some beneficials to break it down. You may find you need to add more N than usual with Dyna if using bleach, but this is just my theory of logical deduction. Lastly, the addition of bleach in our aero systems is partially to counter the fact we use r.o. water, and basically just get the chlorine levels back up to tap amounts. Since you are already using tap water it seems like you shouldn't have need to add even more.

Trichy Bastard said:

Not sure about the leds being so superior, but I don't know much about them in general. I'd take everything the company says with a grain of salt, and read up on some scientific papers if available. I wanted to add that you might hold off on the bleach in the promix unless you think you have a reason to need it. You probably couldn't tell if you did anyway because you're blind to the roots. HB seems to do fine without bleach, and as I mentioned the DG has a higher amount of ammoniacal N, and that requires some beneficials to break it down. You may find you need to add more N that usual with Dyna if using bleach, but this is just my theory of logical deduction. Lastly, the addition of bleach in our aero systems is partially to counter the fact we use r.o. water, and basically just get the chlorine levels back up to tap amounts. Since you are already using tap water it seems like you shouldn't have need to add even more.

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I think you might be confused I was asking about a hydro feeding so that's why I added bleach a very small amount cuase yes your right im using taP water but my tap is 63 ppm so I fig it's lo enough to add some anyways. And I don't add it to my water when feeding my promix plants one thing I did do was added some organic lime cause I didn't like the 8.0 reading my soil meter is telling me and also fig it would get some cal mag out of it which dyna seems to be lacking

Guys, please do not quote or respond to the troll 'scooby' above. His post has been flagged and should be removed shortly as he does not have permission to troll my journal. Thanks fellas.

dickkhead said:

I think you might be confused I was asking about a hydro feeding so that's why I added bleach a very small amount cuase yes your right im using taP water but my tap is 63 ppm so I fig it's lo enough to add some anyways. And I don't add it to my water when feeding my promix plants one thing I did do was added some organic lime cause I didn't like the 8.0 reading my soil meter is telling me and also fig it would get some cal mag out of it which dyna seems to be lacking

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Oh sorry, yeah thought you were asking about the promix nutes. Btw, ppm is no indication of how much chlorine is in there, it's a measurement of salts only like the nutes. You could use a pool chlorine test kit to tell, but the easiest way to tell is with your nose. If there's any hint of chlorine smell it's probably enough to do the job. Also, I don't know how accurate those soil meters are, but read you can read the runoff from your soil to check the PH or mix the soil with plain r.o water and then test the water that drains out. Lime raises ph, not lowers it. The peat moss base in promix is acidic (low ph) so they already add lime to raise it up into decent levels for plants. Try to get the readings around 6-6.5 I think is decent for soil.

homebrewer said:

Guys, please do not quote or respond to the troll 'scooby' above. His post has been flagged and should be removed shortly as he does not have permission to troll my journal. Thanks fellas.

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I always stand behind you HB because I know you have good intentions. I've never seen ScoobyDoo here before, and may not agree with what he says either, however I'll play devil's advocate and ask why you think his comments were so trollish? Perhaps there's a history I'm unaware of, and I know I should stay out of this, but I just see more of an opportunity to challenge his comments rather than condemn him as I don't believe it was his intention to be rude in any way other than state his personal beliefs? Obviously he is quite mistaken about the conoisseur plants looking horrible in the end, but yeah that's kinda weird...

EDIT: I have apparently learned there is a longer history to this whole thing, and don't want to get involved.

Trichy Bastard said:

Oh sorry, yeah thought you were asking about the promix nutes. Btw, ppm is no indication of how much chlorine is in there, it's a measurement of salts only like the nutes. You could use a pool chlorine test kit to tell, but the easiest way to tell is with your nose. If there's any hint of chlorine smell it's probably enough to do the job. Also, I don't know how accurate those soil meters are, but read you can read the runoff from your soil to check the PH or mix the soil with plain r.o water and then test the water that drains out. Lime raises ph, not lowers it. The peat moss base in promix is acidic (low ph) so they already add lime to raise it up into decent levels for plants. Try to get the readings around 6-6.5 I think is decent for soil.

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ah good to know the chlorine isnt apart of the ppm but I could smell it but added a smal cap to 35 galon res last time and it worked woners keeping algae at bay so I did it again lol. I thought lime neutralized ph? I have been ph'ing my water to ensure the plants are utilizing everything but before that I was just using tap mixing and applying to the plants and they were thriving! at week 5 I added the bloom and backed off on grow and noticed a lil yellowing but have sense corrected that.

im going to try the foliage pro next going into flower and add bloom with it after 2 weeks and see how they do theres somone here who runs FP all the way through hopefully he reads this and post a few pics of his results Id like to see how they came out and also wonder if he only used FP or added mag pro, pro tekt , and was using tap or RO?....

Ill respect your decision HB but he wasnt realy attacking, as tb said he was just wondering why the AN looked so bad and I know you belive its because of the NPK ratio that AN uses but he for some reason thinks the sensi will do better? well scooby why dont you do a comparison? any comparison grow is alwasy interesting to watch but when you do them things have to be precise enviroment, genetics, feeding, etc to realy be able to tell which is better. Hb threads I think it doesnt get any more precise with the info he provides maybe send him 2 bottle if your that confident....

OMFG, he's pulling huge yields from his 600 watt lights and those plants are clearly outdoors in the ground.

Thanks for the reply.
The chart I was looking at was slightly different.
When you say a couple mls of base in veg, im assuming dyna gro-veg with protek? and when you double that for flower do you still add the dyna gro bloom( and how much per gallon)? and are you doubling protek as well?
That sounds like 5ml per gallon of dyna gro veg for flower...am I correct?


Thanks

iceberg slim said:

Thanks for the reply.
The chart I was looking at was slightly different.
When you say a couple mls of base in veg, im assuming dyna gro-veg with protek? and when you double that for flower do you still add the dyna gro bloom( and how much per gallon)? and are you doubling protek as well?
That sounds like 5ml per gallon of dyna gro veg for flower...am I correct?


Thanks

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Generally speaking, a tsp of plant food and an equal amount of protekt should put your pH in the proper range (depends on your water) and is a good starting point for flower. Cut those values in half for veg. You should not need more than the amounts I just gave you so think about dialing back in the future as you find a base nuterotekt ratio that works in regards to pH.

dickkhead said:

im going to try the foliage pro next going into flower and add bloom with it after 2 weeks and see how they do theres somone here who runs FP all the way through hopefully he reads this and post a few pics of his results Id like to see how they came out and also wonder if he only used FP or added mag pro, pro tekt , and was using tap or RO?....hs

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I use foliage pro in veg up to 1st week of flower. The problem with foliage pro in flower is it is hard to get the right ratio of phosphorus and potassium in mid flower when you are adding the foliage pro. I use it in veg because I can supply the plants with as much nitrogen as they need and keep the ppm on the low end during vegetative growth. The plants don't need high amounts of phosphorus and potassium in veg, so I stay away from the grow formula.

This enables me to not have to really drain to waste much fertilizer to ensure that the unused fertilizer doesn't build up in the media. My plants vegetatively grow for 2 months in promix and I don't have to leech the media once during that time. I do, however, add dolomite lime to the promix for additional buffering capacity and I fertilize with every watering. I don't subscribe to the fert, fert, straight water routine, as I think that can mess with the plants natural osmotic reaction to salts in soil and can inhibit the plants ability to uptake water.

Low ppms all the way through with the right ration of n-p-k and all micronutrients as well as a media that has sufficient buffering capacity is all ya need. Cal-Mag is not necessary unless you have magnesium deficiency or R/O water. However, if you are using soil or soilless media, just adding dolomite lime is easier. Less things to measure.

mm

medicalmary said:

I use foliage pro in veg up to 1st week of flower. The problem with foliage pro in flower is it is hard to get the right ratio of phosphorus and potassium in mid flower when you are adding the foliage pro. I use it in veg because I can supply the plants with as much nitrogen as they need and keep the ppm on the low end during vegetative growth. The plants don't need high amounts of phosphorus and potassium in veg, so I stay away from the grow formula.

This enables me to not have to really drain to waste much fertilizer to ensure that the unused fertilizer doesn't build up in the media. My plants vegetatively grow for 2 months in promix and I don't have to leech the media once during that time. I do, however, add dolomite lime to the promix for additional buffering capacity and I fertilize with every watering. I don't subscribe to the fert, fert, straight water routine, as I think that can mess with the plants natural osmotic reaction to salts in soil and can inhibit the plants ability to uptake water.

Low ppms all the way through with the right ration of n-p-k and all micronutrients as well as a media that has sufficient buffering capacity is all ya need. Cal-Mag is not necessary unless you have magnesium deficiency or R/O water. However, if you are using soil or soilless media, just adding dolomite lime is easier. Less things to measure.

mm

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thanks for the response I have noticed that adding lime to the pro mix does help atleast it did with organic run I did, and I just added a small amount to my girls now. im starting to think the same as far as feeding goes some people consider pro mix like hydro and hydro plants see fert every time they see water, but like you said lo enough to not cause buildup or see deff, funny you mention that osmotic relatioin TB just emailed me an article on that! in bloom what do you run? how much protekt do you run in flower as well?

dickkhead said:

thanks for the response I have noticed that adding lime to the pro mix does help atleast it did with organic run I did, and I just added a small amount to my girls now. im starting to think the same as far as feeding goes some people consider pro mix like hydro and hydro plants see fert every time they see water, but like you said lo enough to not cause buildup or see deff, funny you mention that osmotic relatioin TB just emailed me an article on that! in bloom what do you run? how much protekt do you run in flower as well?

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1-3-2 n-p-k in flower is pretty standard. I'm usually at that 2 weeks into flower. As far as silicates are concerned, I usually run enough to balance my pH. In my water it takes about 60% base nutes and 40% pro-tekt to reach a 6.0-6.4 pH. You could add more to up your silicate EC, however, I've pretty much stopped using pH up and down and just adjust my protekt levels with the base fertilizer levels I add (mainly because I'm lazy and I I've got the measurements down pat). I haven't used pH up or down in months. As far as flushing is concerned, I'm not a believer. I run lower levels of fertilizer right up until the end and haven't flushed in a year. There is absolutely no "chemical" taste in my buds. No difference between when I did flush other than healthier plants right up to harvest.

mm

medicalmary said:

1-3-2 n-p-k in flower is pretty standard. I'm usually at that 2 weeks into flower. As far as silicates are concerned, I usually run enough to balance my pH. In my water it takes about 60% base nutes and 40% pro-tekt to reach a 6.0-6.4 pH. You could add more to up your silicate EC, however, I've pretty much stopped using pH up and down and just adjust my protekt levels with the base fertilizer levels I add (mainly because I'm lazy and I I've got the measurements down pat). I haven't used pH up or down in months. As far as flushing is concerned, I'm not a believer. I run lower levels of fertilizer right up until the end and haven't flushed in a year. There is absolutely no "chemical" taste in my buds. No difference between when I did flush other than healthier plants right up to harvest.

mm

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I'm still new to this so please forgive me but when u say 1-3-2 N-p-k Is that tsp per gallon 1tsp FP, 3tsp bloom,2tsp of protekt? And yea I'm gna try to just keep them green uptil when I harvest but not over feed them!

dickkhead said:

I'm still new to this so please forgive me but when u say 1-3-2 N-p-k Is that tsp per gallon 1tsp FP, 3tsp bloom,2tsp of protekt? And yea I'm gna try to just keep them green uptil when I harvest but not over feed them!

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DH, it's the standard representation of N-P-K nute ratios. Meaning 1 part N -to- 3parts P -to- 2 parts K. I mean this only as a constructive criticism, but you're still looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist. Your variables are different, whethere it's different lighting or something as subtle as different elevation or average levels of atmospheric pressure that will affect transpiration, which in turn changes things. HB is not quick to tell you his exact numbers I'm sure because he even finesses them on a regular basis due to feedback from his plants. As you can see between all of the good growers no doubt all having good results in their environments that there is more than one way to crack this egg. You have a base to start from now, but from here you'll have to find what works best for you in your environment. Resorting back to the product labels for guidance was not what HB had in mind, I'm sure he wanted you to learn the art of reading your plants and acting accordingly...

Just make slow changes from what's working now. We are always here to show pics and provide feedback. It won't be as hard as you think, but somewhat of an ongoing process, especially with new strains and phenos. I am still honing my own skills, but the forums are great because there is always someone to help 24/7... Make sure you keep a journal of feeding levels, ec, lighting, etc. And keep filling this stuff in forever. That way if you want to run a particular strain again you'll be able to start out with what you already knew from the last time and your results will be that much better and easier the second round right from day 1.

I've seen your pics and know what a massive bodybuilder you are, and surely you understand that if I ate the same as you for a month I'd probably have to call the guys to cut a hole in the side of my house and take me out on a stretcher-lol. Plants are no different in that they vary the same, genetically and environmentally influenced.

Trichy Bastard said:

DH, it's the standard representation of N-P-K nute ratios. Meaning 1 part N -to- 3parts P -to- 2 parts K. I mean this only as a constructive criticism, but you're still looking for that magic bullet that doesn't exist. Your variables are different, whethere it's different lighting or something as subtle as different elevation or average levels of atmospheric pressure that will affect transpiration, which in turn changes things. HB is not quick to tell you his exact numbers I'm sure because he even finesses them on a regular basis due to feedback from his plants. As you can see between all of the good growers no doubt all having good results in their environments that there is more than one way to crack this egg. You have a base to start from now, but from here you'll have to find what works best for you in your environment. Resorting back to the product labels for guidance was not what HB had in mind, I'm sure he wanted you to learn the art of reading your plants and acting accordingly...

Just make slow changes from what's working now. We are always here to show pics and provide feedback. It won't be as hard as you think, but somewhat of an ongoing process, especially with new strains and phenos. I am still honing my own skills, but the forums are great because there is always someone to help 24/7... Make sure you keep a journal of feeding levels, ec, lighting, etc. And keep filling this stuff in forever. That way if you want to run a particular strain again you'll be able to start out with what you already knew from the last time and your results will be that much better and easier the second round right from day 1.

I've seen your pics and know what a massive bodybuilder you are, and surely you understand that if I ate the same as you for a month I'd probably have to call the guys to cut a hole in the side of my house and take me out on a stretcher-lol. Plants are no different in that they vary the same, genetically and environmentally influenced.

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Ok it's still confusing 1 part 3 part 2 part to how many other parts lol I'm confused on what u mean by it i get what Npk is but explain the whole ratio thing on some bottles it will say diff Npk ratios for different scenarios veg or bloom and some of those numbers go as high as 20 like jacks classic.
Growing is very similiar to bodybuilding in somany ways it's not funny for instance high carb diets low carb diets, cut water and sodium or dont cut water or sodium at the end of the diet (kinda like nutes or flush at the end)and Ive been competing for 5 Years and know what works and what doesn't work and am still learning!

I guess I still need some time to dial things and a grow journal is def key!

dickkhead said:

Ok it's still confusing 1 part 3 part 2 part to how many other parts lol I'm confused on what u mean by it i get what Npk is but explain the whole ratio thing on some bottles it will say diff Npk ratios for different scenarios veg or bloom and some of those numbers go as high as 20 like jacks classic.
Growing is very similiar to bodybuilding in somany ways it's not funny for instance high carb diets low carb diets, cut water and sodium or dont cut water or sodium at the end of the diet (kinda like nutes or flush at the end)and Ive been competing for 5 Years and know what works and what doesn't work and am still learning!

I guess I still need some time to dial things and a grow journal is def key!

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16 essential salts are necessary for plants to grow. The big three are nitrogen (n), phosphorus (p), and potassium (k). Each fertilizer you use has a 3 digit number on them that has the ratio of these macro fertilizer salts. Calcium, Magnesium, and Silicon are mid tier and are supplied in much lower dosages. And everything else (called micro nutrients) is supplied in much smaller quantities. So, If you are mixing two fertilizers with fertilizer #1 having an n-p-k of 2-1-2 and fertilizer two have an n-p-k of 1-2-2 you would have a new n-p-k for the mixture of these two fertilizers. to figure it out you just add the two n-p-ks together and reduce. so, it would be 3-3-4 n-p-k or if you want 1.5-1.5-2, etc. However, you would only have this ratio if you mix them at the exact same rate, so each fertilizer comprise exactly 50% of the mixture. The reason we all like dyna gro is that it is a complete fertilizer with all the micro nutrients in the base, so we don't have to worry about really strange deficiency symptoms from popping up. I have no idea what a manganese deficiency look like off the top of my head and don't plan on learning what one looks like anytime soon.

When we talk about parts in terms of n-p-k we are not talking about the ratio of actually elements available in the fertilizer to one another. We are not talking about dyna-gro part A or B, etc. We are talking about for every atom of nitrogen there is going to be one atom of phosphorus in the solution.

now, while the ratios might be the same when reduce like say jacks is a 20-20-20 and I have a different fertilizer (X) that is a 1-1-1. These are the same ratio, but the jacks has more of a concentration of the elements in it. So, when i mix jacks with my water I use a hell of a lot less then when I use fertilizer X. Infact I use 20 time more of fertilizer X to get the same parts per million of elements of my fertilizer. So, the higher the number the more concentrated and usually the cheaper it is in the long term.

mm