dwc Root Rot - some answers please?

Rahz said:

Something I learned in another hobby, it only take a small amount of sugar to produce a large population of microbes. I brew in the changeout and use less than a teaspoon per 24 gallons. Bacteria on the airstone, bacteria on the air line, bacteria lining the container, bacteria floating everywhere. Introducing a live culture into a sterile medium it can take weeks for the carbs to be completely consumed in a low oxygen environment. Ideally you want as much DO as possible and a high ratio of bennies to carbs. I don't know what the concentration of bennies are in liquid products and find them dubious so I use powders.

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This is valuable information, thank you for your input.

I have learned a valuable lesson making tea and how destructive it can be if made incorrectly.

My next tea will be, please correct me if im wrong.
2gallon RO Water
2ml Ulsulfaed mollasses
1 tspoon Microgrow
2 cups EWC (Plagron Mega Worm) -
Equipment: 60ltr air pump / heater kept to 20oC

Ill add a cup to each plant through the hydroten each 3 days?

ganjaman87 said:

I never cleaned the stones and stuff, but i do always clean out the bucket with soap before I start another brew.

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Ok mate thanks for clarifying, do you know what temps and air pump size you use.

What do you think of my tea, any changes needed.

My next tea will be, please correct me if im wrong.
2gallon RO Water
2ml Ulsulfaed mollasses
1 tspoon Microgrow
2 cups EWC (Plagron Mega Worm) -
Equipment: 60ltr air pump / heater kept to 20oC

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I think that will produce a much better result. I'm sure there are many ways to make good tea. I've found what works for me. Not suggesting you change the recipe above, but consider picking up some dry powders at some point. I use two products, one of which is a bacterial/myco combo (Plant Success) and one which is myco only (ZHO powder). The ZHO packet is tiny and after over a year there is still over half the packet left. The Plant Success is in a 6 ounce container and I'll probably throw it out before I use 1/3 of it. Expiration on dry powders should be several years at least.

My recipe:
Knife tip of ZHO
Knife tip of Plant Success
Drop of honey

Hi Rhaz,

I can see how versatile the tea can be, i see that the key is not too much sugar. There is a product called TNC Hydro, what do you think.. Do you think it could be added to the tea along with what i listed, i see it does contain

"
TNC MycorrHydro is a highly concentrated water dispersible mycorrhizal inoculant developed for hydroponic applications. It contains 15 different species of mycorrhizal fungi, including Endomycorrhizae and Ectomycorrhizae as well as 5 species of Trichoderma. It also contains 13 Bacillus species – Bacteria for Nitrogen fixing, Phosphorous solublising and growth promotion. TNC MycorrHydro also contains natural bio-stimulants such as humic acid and derivatives of a natural marine algae (Ascophyllum nodosum). These include amino-acids, plant hormones – cytokinins, auxins and giberellins – as well as vitamins and trace elements.


TNC MycorrHydro can be used with all hydroponic systems but has been specifically developed for use in ‘non retentive’ free draining situations. Such as when growing in clay balls, DWC, NFT and Aeroponics etc.


The micro-organisms – mycorrhizae, trichoderma and bacillus will populate the root zone of the plant, growing and multiplying to form a colony living in a symbiotic relationship with the host.


Hyphae (tiny microscopic filaments) from the mycorrhizae are incredibly long and they are able to transport valuable minerals such as Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium and Trace elements back to the host plant and because of their length they can obtain these nutrients from a volume which is vast when compared to the plant’s root system alone.

Other species (Trichoderma) will not only destroy unwanted organisms, they will induce and increase the host plants resistance to pathogens , mould and undesirable fungi, not only in the plants root system but throughout the structure of the plant

Endomycorrhizae
Glomus clarum
G. intraradices
G. mosseae
G. deserticola
G. monosporus
G. brasilianum
G. aggregatum
Gigaspora margareta
(6.4×104 spores/kg)
Bacillus
Bacillus subtilis
B. amyloliquefaciens
B. licheniformis
(each at 1.2×109 cfu/kg)
B. brevis
B. cirulans
B. coagulans
B. firmus
B. halodenitrificans
B. laterosporus
B. megaterium
B. mycoides
B. pasteuri
B. polymyxa
(each at 6.8×108 cfu/kg)

Ectomycorrhizae
Rhizopogon amylpogon
R. fulvigleba
R. rubescans
R. villosuli
Laccarria laccata
Pisolithus tinctorius
Scleroderma spp
(2.6×108 spores/kg)
Trichoderma
Trichoderma hamatum
T. harzianum
T. koningii
T. longibrachiatum
T. reesei
(each at 1.3×108 cfu/kg)

Soluble Humates, Soluble natural marine algae derivatives (from Ascophylum nodosum)
Including :- trace elements, natural plant hormones, amino acids and vitamins."

There is a product called TNC Hydro, what do you think.. Do you think it could be added to the tea along with what i listed

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That product could be a useful inoculant by itself, but I don't think you would benefit from adding to the recipe for the bennies as it would be mostly redundant. I could start adding product to make better tea, but really all I want is some healthy bennies. I don't even use worm castings because I don't care to strain and I think it's redundant as well as ups the PPMs with non-living matter. A packet of dry powder should contain billions of spores of various species. I use two powders for the redundancy. If it's bennie tea you're after it can cost pennies a week.

It could be useful to ad humic acid, cytokinins, auxins and giberellins, amino acids, vitamins and trace elements, but I cannot personally comment on all those things. I'm currently a fan of humic/fulvic acid as it has studies to back up the claims, but it seems to take a good bit in solution to really do the job. I see it more as a reservoir additive rather than something I would use in small amounts to inoculate tea. I'm doubtful that vitamins help a plant unless as an eventual elemental source. Other than that and the humic/fulvic acid I haven't done any research on the other things listed.

Hi Rhaz,

The TNC Hydro is what they suggest to inoculate the system then they say switch to using TNC Bactorr. I know of other growers that only use TNC Hydro, they add directly to the res at every Res change. The issue is i have a big system and it gets used quickly.

Do you think that i would be best to follow the TNC Bactorr application to the res or best to brew a tea. Is the TNC Bactorr good enuf to brew with EWC and make a decent tea?

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience in this matter.

TNC Bactorr

Planting media
Mix 1.5g (approx 1/2 tsp) with every litre of soil/coir etc
Hand watering
Mix 3g (1tsp) with 4 litres of water – This should inoculate 1 square meter
Hydroponics
Mix 15g (4tsp) with every 100 litres of nutrient solution*

*TNC BactorrS13 is a very effective natural product, settling will occur and equipment should be cleaned after every growing cycle. Keep media aerated and do not mix with peroxide products.

• Biological plant stimulant
• 100% natural ingredients
• Mixes with water –
  Hydro or hand watering
• Nitrogen fixing & Phosphorous solubilising
  bacteria
• Create a healthy bacterial colony
  – crowd out pathogens
• 1 gram of TNC BactorrS13 contains 1.6 billion benefical bacteria

Product Description

TNC BactorrS13 is a 100% natural product containing friendly bacteria which are known to be beneficial to plants, helping to create a healthy and highly nutritional environment for plant roots.
TNC BactorrS13 contains nitrogen fixing bacteria (eg. B. polymyxa) that can take atmospheric nitrogen and convert it to ammonia which is then plant available. It also contains phosphorous solubilising bacteria – important if using Rock Phosphate or Bone meal which are not soluble in water. In a hydroponic system, if Calcium nutrients happen to combine with Phosphates and form insoluble Calcium Phosphate, these bacteria are also able to unlock the nutrients.

Each gram of TNC BactorrS13 contains 1.6 billion beneficial bacteria working to help improve your crop.

Other bacteria will break down and degrade waste organic materials that accumulate over a growing season. This not only releases valuable nutrients back in to the food web but means these potential sources of food don’t get taken advantage of by undesirables within the substrate.
TNC BactorrS13 is also packed with other natural substances to help promote strong and healthy growth – Humate (Humic acid), as well as cytokins, auxins and giberelins along with amino acids and trace elements all derived from a natural marine algae (Ascophylum nodosum).

Brewing tea either pre-rez or by the gallon is going to be the least expensive method for getting bennies in the water, regardless of the source of the bennies. We're taking a small amount of product and expanding it with the carbs. It should also in theory provide the most robust cultures because they aren't going from a dormant stage in a bottle directly into a low carbon medium. We're giving them an ideal environment where they can thrive and then dumping them into the grow medium.

If your goal is bennies in the water, and you're using a lot of product and money to achieve that result, my opinion is that money is being wasted. Hope that helps.

I just checked how many knife tips are in a teaspoon of Plant Success which is about 15. That means I'm using 35-40 times less than the recommended amount per gallon. Count in the ZHO and I'm using about 20x less than recommended for direct application. I measured out the amount of honey in a honey drop and it comes out to 1/6 teaspoon.

Honey/molasses is around 4/5 sugar. It weighs 1.8 grams per drop. Brewing the tea provides about 1.5 grams of bennies by dry weight assuming all the sugar is consumed. This is still 10 times less than the recommended TNC Hydro usage (my rez is about 100 liters).

Some might say my tea is weak. To them I say, yes it is but it's simple and does the job. I would choose the TNC Hydro over the Bactorr, or grab both and make tea with the molasses. The TNC Hydro contains Trichoderma, a fungi that eats other fungi.

Doesn't honey have anti bacterial properties?

yes it does... use unsulphured blackstrap molasses.

Pure honey is antibacterial at 20% water but if the water exceeds that point it can go bad without help. Just 1 gallon makes the mix over 99% water. Honey is fine, but use whatever you like.

Rahz said:

Brewing tea either pre-rez or by the gallon is going to be the least expensive method for getting bennies in the water, regardless of the source of the bennies. We're taking a small amount of product and expanding it with the carbs. It should also in theory provide the most robust cultures because they aren't going from a dormant stage in a bottle directly into a low carbon medium. We're giving them an ideal environment where they can thrive and then dumping them into the grow medium.

If your goal is bennies in the water, and you're using a lot of product and money to achieve that result, my opinion is that money is being wasted. Hope that helps.

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Hi Rahz,

I can use the TNC hydro in my veg system at the recommended dose every week at res change as its fairly ok price wise. This is possible as the system is only 150L capacity, however my flower system is 450L+ so its expensive.

Then for my flower system switch to making a tea using the bactorr? You said before that TNC Hydo contains Trichoderma, does that mean if i make a tea with it then it will eat the other good fungi?

Trich can consume a variety of fungi (pythium for one). Think of the others as eventual food for the trich. Replenishing will help maintain a diverse population though if the trich does dominate the fungal population it's not a bad thing. If you're running synthetic nutes, having a diverse fungal population isn't as useful as in a highly organic environment like soil.

I suggested the Nitro because the other doesn't seem to have any fungi. It's likely a single use of trich will establish in the roots and maintain through the grow, so yea switching to the Bactorr in flower would be fine and is probably the logic they use for leaving the fungi out of the Bactorr.

Hi Rahz,

thank you for explaining, i understand much more. Thank you

How do you think the BActorr would compare to say Great White? Is the Bactorr TNC Hydro just without the Fungi?

If i was to make a tea do you think this would be fine...
2gallon RO Water
2ml Mollasses
1tspoon Bactorr
2 cups EWC
bubble 36-48hrs using high powered pump at 20oC

Yes, Great White is a combo product bacteria/fungi like the Hydro. I would go with the Great White for the same reason I would go for the Hydro.

BTW, bacteria can thrive at higher temps and most fungi experience fastest growth in the mid 70's F. Since you want the culture to consume the sugar as fast as possible, shoot for mid 70's if you can.

Ok,

You have just explained another reason why my last EWC tea brew failed.

The temps of the room where the tea was brewing was around 53oF. I added way too much mollasses with too cool temps, no way was my tea brewed properly. I am sure i caused the slime now by my lack of experience brewing the tea...

I am most gratful for you continued support and helping me learn about using bennies and the products ive listed. Before i start my DWC again i will go through each step with you to ensure i am 100% on track.

Rahz ,thank you for sharing your knowledge

Do u think I could add this to a res for auto pots ?