DWC Mistakes I made

wilsoncr17 said:

I think you should consider that when you did this, you may have not been doing it for the right reasons. Or may have done it improperly.

I'm not saying it's right for every grow, or grower, just depends on what you are going for.

Click to expand...

Don't ever remove fan leaves before harvest for several reasons.

1. The fan leaves MAKE AND STORE energy for the plant. The fan leaves are doing a process called photosynthsis, and it is the most important part or task or job the plant does, to make it grow. Photosynthesis makes the sugars and carbs for PLANT growth and for BUD growth.

If you remove a FAN leaf, the plant will stop growing taller or larger until it can replace that removed fan leaf.

Removing a healthy fan leaf is a big waste of time..they are rapided replaced,, unless you are in the last few weeks of flowering.


2. Even if the fan leaves are yellowing in late bloom I do not remove them until they are almost ready to fall off. The yellowing in the fan leaves at late harvest is the plants metabolism at work. She is transferring all stored energy in the fan leaf to bud production. It is the easiest source of energy she has late in life. It is DUMB and foolish to stop tht process.

All good books advise against it.




From the Growers Bible by Jorge Cervantes:
Leave leaves alone! Removal of healthy leave hacks up a healthy plant. Removing large or shade leaves DOES NOT make plants more productive. This practice DOES NOT supply more light to smaller leaves and growing tips. Plants need all their leaves to produce the maximum amount of chlorophyll and food. Removing leaves slows chlorophyll production, stresses the plant, and stunts its growth. Stress is a growth inhibitor. Remove only dead leaves or leaves that are more than 50 percent damaged.
__________________

thanks for the reply, roseman!

basic stuff for a veteran i'm sure...

i've read the Marijuana Grower's Handbook by Ed Rosenthal but it seriously lacks updated info for hydroponics and has nothing on DWC, the latest edition is ten years old. i'll be trying to find a copy of the the Growers Bible by Jorge Cervantes but i'm thinking my best resource for DWC info is experienced minds willing to share.

the reason i asked what a DWC setup includes is that my system has no water being pumped to the roots. i guess i'm just tyring to figure out if i need to add that or if it'll be just as good to simply dangle the roots in the solution.

i guess i need to break down and read some of that 7500 reply thread on bubbleponics.

thanks
hatch

You don't pump water to the roots in dwc, unless you use drippers or sprayers, but that isn't necessary. Just suspend the net cups so they are submerged slightly, this will soak the entire netcup and provide the roots with h2o and nutrients. Then you have an air pump to supply the roots with oxygen as well, because that is what they need. h2o, nutrients, and oxygen.

hotboxhatchback said:

thanks for the reply, roseman!

basic stuff for a veteran i'm sure...

i've read the Marijuana Grower's Handbook by Ed Rosenthal but it seriously lacks updated info for hydroponics and has nothing on DWC, the latest edition is ten years old. i'll be trying to find a copy of the the Growers Bible by Jorge Cervantes but i'm thinking my best resource for DWC info is experienced minds willing to share.

the reason i asked what a DWC setup includes is that my system has no water being pumped to the roots. i guess i'm just tyring to figure out if i need to add that or if it'll be just as good to simply dangle the roots in the solution.

i guess i need to break down and read some of that 7500 reply thread on bubbleponics.

thanks
hatch

Click to expand...

Many growers use a DWC system, Deep WATER CULTURE, that they start clones in that already have roots, or they start seeds in something else, let them sprout and then, AFTER they have roots, they add them to the DWC System. It is a simple HYDROPONIC System, using highly oxegenated water, by adding aquarium air stones, or air difusers to the water, powered by an air pump. DWC is very simple and easy, in my opinion. Some mistakenly call it a Bubleponics System, because the water is bubbling.
A friend of mine, Martin Wigget, owns the copyright, trademark or patent on the word or System Bubbleponics. He says on his site:

BUBBLEPONICS™ is taking aeroponics to the next level...




Bubbleponics™ is the art of delivering highly oxygenated nutrient solution DIRECTLY to the inner root zone. The days of merely misting the outer roots with nutrient spray are over. Gone too are the days of over/under watering, over/under feeding; the Stealth Hydro bubbleponic system automatically maintains the ideal oxygen level of the nutrient solution so as to facilitate a healthy thriving root system.







With a Bubbleponics System, and with the FEEDER tubes running to each grow cup, you can start seeds in it, or you can start very young sprouts with roots 1/2 inch long, andg et a VERY RAPID Grow. I mean Faster than you would believe until you see it, like much over an inch a day in height growth, everyday!!!!!!.

Look at these seeds started in soil in a flower pot and in the system the very same day:






and compare the pics, and look how much taller the plants in the tank grew in 4 days!!!!

with a DRIP System, you have to put the DRIP on a timer, or the sprouts can actually drown.
With a Bubbleponics system, the flow of water is a 24/7 trickle, full of bubbles and air and oxygen enriched water, making a much faster grow, that the roots just love.
If you visit my thread, you will find posts by 100s of users that say the rate of growth is absoluely amazing.

You can make a Bubbleponic system yourself:


You need an underwater pump, and I think Lowes or Home Depot has them in the Water Fountain section. . Its a small cheap pump like they use on water fountains in the home or yard.

It sits in the bottom of the tank, under water, here is one:


DuraPump Water Pump - 185 gphDuraPump Submersible Water Pump - 185 gph

and here is a hub:

DiG Six Outlet Irrigation Manifold DiG Six Outlet Irrigation Manifold
Price: $12.99 About ten pages back, 420Budman showed us one that Lowes has, he said:

The brand name is MISTER LANDSCAPER. It is in the DRIP IRRIGATION section (even says "drip irrigation" on the package), the technical name for it is PVC SPRINKLER ADAPTER (that is on the package too), the item# is 191779, and the model# is MLA-RA9, and the cost is $10.73. My local Lowes had about 9-10 of them in stock.

You connect that hub to the pump, and run 1/4 tubes from the hub to each grow cup, and there you go!!!




I collect pot growing books, I buy from amazon.com


Here is a FREE Book, it is sort of old, but the only old info in it is about flourscents and CFLs. Go here:
Cannabis Grow Book
you can download and print it.

Here is a short condensed version of my long thread, and only the first 3 or 4 pages need reading:

Roseman and purpdaddys guide for my Bubbleponics setup from Stealth Hydroponic

Purp Manages that thread, he uses the SH BB System too.

Visit my thread and look at my pics:
My PICS

I'm here to help you.

the 18/6 is whats makin me mad now....imine r 2 weeks looks 1 week in a bubbles.but my roots r xplodin soo i cant complain jus givem time i guess .should i get some cfl to get them more veggy looking?

I guess I should come back to weigh in on the lighting issue.

There are two types of respiration, there is photorespiration (happens in the presence of light) and dark/mitochondrial respiration, which while it happens during the daytime it doesn't happen nearly as much as it does during the dark period. During the dark period is when the majority of nitrogen and sulfur transport happens. Nitrogen is a major component in building chlorophyll, sulfur is a major key component in plant growth because of its role in protein formation. A dark period is actually a period of growth for the plant. Too long of one will cause lots of growth without proper supporting structure behind it (what people call stretch, but in reality it's still just massive cell division happening) and too short of one will cause plants to become more compact and bushy. For small growing spaces, 24/0 is a somewhat ideal solution (especially if you're doing low-power T8 or T12 fluroescents) because of the shorter bushy growth. For a closet like mine, 16/8 is more ideal, because they have the room to grow and those larger internode spacings allow more room for flower formation, especially since I plan on supercropping.

Overall, a dark period is good for a plant, especially if you have any stress issues. Stress issues will resolve themselves much slower under 24 hours of light. Think of it - you need to sleep and repair yourself - a plant needs to do somewhat the same thing.

I used to veg 18/6, until I started 24/0. My plants grew so much faster and bushier. All I see is better results vegging with all syatems going 24/0. Personally, I will NEVER go back to anything but 24 hr lights for veg. They can catch up on their sleep when they go 12/12.

you think ph and ppm your water is reallyt important... also my rooms about 80 im guessing thatd be to hot for my res?

dbo24242 said:

I say pH before you feed your plants.

It really doesn't matter the details of when its done, just as long as the pH is right when the plants get the solutions. Better to wait until after nutes are added so you don't adjust it one way add nutes then adjust it the other way, although a lot of hydro nutes have pH buffers so this won't really happen.
As long as you have the meter and the up/down its really not that much of an issue.

Click to expand...

This is about DWC, so the plants are always being fed. I always check every day, mine has a tendency to creep up alittle every day, so after a res change I drop to 5.6 or so, and drop it again when it reaches 6.1 if I'm still afew days away from a res change. I also found that I was topping up the res almost every day towards the end, so I was dropping PH pretty regularly.

i was getting confused by all the new terminology. i think i understand now, my setup is passive hydroponics using the deep water culture method but i could make it active hydroponics using "bubbleponics" by adding the water pump, irrigation hub, etc. to deliver water to the roots rather than simply dangling them in the water.

i got my clones today, 13 grape and 1 purple erkle. i'm letting them revive from their 150 mile journey home then its into the water. i was kinda wondering if i should go the active hydro route but they have good roots going already so i'm not worried anymore and i'm don't want to rush my first grow. i'll update my thread once the girls are presentable.

for those who wonder about clones in oakland:
blue sky was sold out of anything decent by 10am when we got there.
harborside had a good selection, that's where the grapes came from.
purple heart provided the purple erkle, i got two but shared.

edit:
sour diesel was at harborside, pardon the lapse of memory...

A grower once told me that if you cut a stem containing leaves 4 inches or more two buds will grow instead of just one. He said that once they were 4 inches long they reached their max thc level and it will grow into two stems each containing a bud. Also he told me that he had plants that were in their 10th and 12th generation. He said after a while people didn't even want to smoke his stash cause it was so serious. He said each generation made it much stronger every time, would this be done by taking ur best plants and pollinating them or what. Thanks to anyone who replys.

man what i notice alot of...people not checking the ph and letting it get out of control,it will cause a problem that causes another problem,,such as nute lock,,,you lock out one element that needs the other to work and then its REALLY hard to diagnose the prob. Great thread Rose

my mistake is not watching this video and learning EVERYTHING this guy talks about,,its gets interesting towards the end.Everyone NEEDS to see it.It needs to be in the fuccin GrowFaq.
[youtube]IPcpt3Be28o[/youtube]

zechbro said:

you think ph and ppm your water is reallyt important... also my rooms about 80 im guessing thatd be to hot for my res?

Click to expand...

You're border-line, but OK.

pH is very important, but I did several grows with NO ppm meter.

Temps?
Temperatures
a copy and pasted article

Having a garden thrive indoors is an exceptionally rewarding experience. It is rewarding not only because of the outcome but because of the effort involved to actually have your garden succeed. Hobbyists and professional gardeners alike will tell you that when moving a garden indoors, the temperature is the hardest factor to take control of. When confined to a small space ballasts and lights can push temperatures sky-high in no time flat. This is especially true during hot summer months when outside temperature reaches its highest. Nighttime (lights out period) temperature can be just as difficult to regulate during cold winter month. ​

Most gardeners are aware that temperature in the grow room plays a major role and can greatly affect the growth of plants and the quality of the finished crop. Most gardeners do not know how controlling the temperature of their garden in very specific ways they can achieve a superior crop. Drift to far from these ideal temperatures and watch your plants and crop suffer. In part 1 of this article it will be explained why temperature is so important to the indoor garden and exactly what the ideal temperatures are. In Temperature and the Indoor Garden part 2 you will learn of some amazing products, new and old, that will help regulate temperature in the grow room. These products can save you, the gardener, time, money, and will help supercharge any garden.
Before getting started it is highly recommended that every indoor garden has a max/min thermometer. ($4.95 at Wlamert) This product allows the gardener to see exactly the fluctuations in temperature within their garden. Without this useful tool there is no accurate way of knowing the different temperatures between daytime (lights on) and nighttime (lights off). The difference between the two temperatures is very important to plant growth. Anymore than a 10F-15F difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures and you risk shocking and stressing the plants. In general the optimal daytime temperature for plant growth is between 70F -75F. Drift to far above this range or too far below and growth can be severely affected. Daytime temperatures exceeding 90F or under 62F and plant growth will be stunted. If the temperature drifts higher than 95F the plant’s enzyme production will drop off and the plant will begin shutting down. At temperatures that high photosynthesis shuts down due to the stomata in the leaves closing down to conserve water. At normal temperatures the stomata will be open, taking in CO2 and sweating water to keep the plant cool and allowing for transpiration.
These temperature ranges will vary depending on variety and species of plant. For instance, some orchids require more than a 10F-15F difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures in order to flower.
Ideal temperature also varies depending on whether or not CO2 is being introduced to the environment. A more suitable daytime temperature when the air is being enriched with CO2 is 80F-85F. This temperature range promotes the exchange of gases between the plants and the environment. Also, it can speed up the process of photosynthesis. Plant in an environment at 86F an perform carbon extraction from CO2 twice as fast as at 68F. It is still recommended that the nighttime temperature drop no more than 15f from that of the daytime temperature. There is another relationship between temperature and the absorbsion of gases by plants that many hobbyist growers are aware of. That is the relationship between the temperature of the water in your reservoir and the amount of oxygen the water can hold. The best range that your reservoir can be between is 60F-75F. Ideally the reservoir temperature should be at 65F because this level contains the most oxygen. Also this temperature will help control transpiration (the act of drawing up nutrients by evaporating water through out the leaves), and humidity levels. Buying a simple floating thermometer will allow you to know where you fit in this range.
Another great reason for regulating the temperature in your grow room s that biological processes can be speed up exponentially by every degree. This is true for your plants as well as the potential pests that may invade your grow room. Pests such as spider mites can reproduce up to 10 times faster with every degree the temperature rises. These pests can destroy a garden in no time flat, you really do not want to make it any easier for them. With a daytime temperature at a steady 72F and nighttime temperature of 65F it is much easier to control and destroy spider mite, thrip, and many other pest populations.
The same principal can be applied to the prevention and control of fungi, molds, mildews, and bacteria, which can spread more rapidly when temperatures in the grow room or reservoir exceed 90F. Also, the warmer the air, the more water it can retain which means humidity levels can easily go beyond the recommended 40-50%. This high humidity coupled with lower nighttime temperatures can cause condensation to form on leaves. This will invite molds, mildews, fungi, and bacteria to take over you grow space. With high temperatures the likely-hood of losing control of the problem, such as powdery mildew, is very high. Once control is lost your plants may be the next to go.

Temperature is also very important when it comes to starting seeds and getting cuttings to root. Placing seedling trays on a heating mat will reduce germination time dramatically. Speeding up germination time usually leads to stronger and healthier plants. Also, less time spent between crop cycles makes a garden efficient. More harvests provided in less time can equal big bucks in the pockets of professional growers.
The ideal temperature to achieve these results is 80F. Any higher and you risk burning the roots. Also, many seeds simply will not germinate at temperatures over 90F. The seeds will become dormant and never sprout.
The same principal used for seeds is used on cuttings to coax roots out quicker. The sooner cuttings can establish roots the better. If roots can be forced quickly they will grow strong and stay strong. A bottom temperature of 80F-85F, roughly 10F warmer than the air, will speed up rooting time and help to jump start those roots once they do begin. Let the temperature get too high or too low and roots growth will be hindered or they will never grow at all. Using the proper technique and the proper temperature for bottom heat not only can rooting time be speed up from 2 weeks to as little as 3 days, but the survival rate of your cuttings will drastically improve.

On the topic of roots, there is an ideal temperature for the root zone after the plants’ roots have been established. Roots are working 24 hours a day and constant attention is required concerning temperature in and around the root zone. The ideal temp for this root zone is generally 75F. At this temperature the ion exchange between the roots and the environment around them is at its absolute best. This means that the plant’s root system can take up more macro nutrients, more micro nutrients, and more oxygen at this temperature than at any other level. This makes a plant more efficient and a plant working efficiently will provide a superior yield.

hotboxhatchback said:

i was getting confused by all the new terminology. i think i understand now, my setup is passive hydroponics using the deep water culture method but i could make it active hydroponics using "bubbleponics" by adding the water pump, irrigation hub, etc. to deliver water to the roots rather than simply dangling them in the water.

i got my clones today, 13 grape and 1 purple erkle. i'm letting them revive from their 150 mile journey home then its into the water. i was kinda wondering if i should go the active hydro route but they have good roots going already so i'm not worried anymore and i'm don't want to rush my first grow. i'll update my thread once the girls are presentable.

for those who wonder about clones in oakland:
blue sky was sold out of anything decent by 10am when we got there.
harborside had a good selection, that's where the grapes came from.
purple heart provided the purple erkle, i got two but shared.

edit:
sour diesel was at harborside, pardon the lapse of memory...

Click to expand...

+ REP 4 u, good post.

fraGx said:

A grower once told me that if you cut a stem containing leaves 4 inches or more two buds will grow instead of just one. He said that once they were 4 inches long they reached their max thc level and it will grow into two stems each containing a bud. Also he told me that he had plants that were in their 10th and 12th generation. He said after a while people didn't even want to smoke his stash cause it was so serious. He said each generation made it much stronger every time, would this be done by taking ur best plants and pollinating them or what. Thanks to anyone who replys.

Click to expand...

You're Right On, dude!

Topping, Pruning, Fimming
Essentially they are the same, "Pruning" and "Topping", just two different commonly words used. Fimming means a lot of indesriminate Topping. It is also known to some as "Pinching" as well. In this page it will be refered to it as "Topping"

Topping is done to increase yield and make them bushy, bushy, bushy, make more buds, promote "branching", and increase the overall yeilds of the plants. With higher overall yeilds, a grower will successfully harvest many more budds, or floral clusters, and from smaller, bushier and more compact plants.

To the indoor grower that does not use this technique, but allows their plants to grow tall, it can be a waste of their artificial lighting, and growing spaces potential. With its own natural growth pattern, and without the benifit of topping, your lady will have one main central "khola" budd, at peak flowering. Several other small branches will grow outwards, down its main stalk, with much smaller budd topps.

The natural growth pattern is to grow upwards at its main stalk. From this main central stalk will begin to grow side branches. The side branches come out as tiny shoots with leaves, and usually there are a pair of them on opposite sides of the main central stalk.

When the seed leaves have long dyed off on the main stalk. The first true seed leaves commonly can or will, wilt, dry up, or dye off of the plant as well. (the little round ones) Once healthy new vegative growth begins the rate of growth can be very fast, with excellent lighting supplied.

As the new growth increases the light reaching the lower portions of the plants becomes less. Thus it is common to see first leafs wilting and dying ect. Growers that see leaves wilting or dying, ect, will opt to pulling them off of the plants. It is cool to remvoe dying, yellowing unhelathy leaves. I NEVER remove a helathy leaf.

The main central stalk is topped of just above the branches that are coming out below it. A pair of scissors is best be used.
There are no rules to where you top your plant or how old it needs to be. As long as your plant has shoots protruding further down the main stalk it is able to be topped. When topped the growth of the plant will be concentrated towards the new, younger vegative shoots.

Once you have topped your plant(s) the younger shoots will rapidly begin growing. With the removal of the main central stalk the lower braches grow more. With topping completed we keep the plants on their regular lighting and feeding schedules.

Now each new shoot tip will essentially grow as the main stalk did, however the growth is not concentrated to only one central stalk. So as each new shoot grows outward new shoots will grow from each one of them stalks as well.

Therefore topping can be done again, and again, and as each shoot becomes a growing tip with other shoots forming down its stalk, it is removed. By completing these topping or pruning tactics, a grower can acheive any desired height, or desired bushiness, they desire in their plants.

I TOP and FIM, at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th week, (I do a rapid Hydro grow) . Look at the results in the pic of my dozen stalks.

With pre-planned Topping and Prunnimg, I was able to persuade a plant to make 12 or 13, (depending on how you count them) to produce 12 oe 13 stalks. got about 46 inches tall, and produced 7 ounces of dried manicured buds.

purpdaddy said:

my mistake is not watching this video and learning EVERYTHING this guy talks about,,its gets interesting towards the end.Everyone NEEDS to see it.It needs to be in the fuccin GrowFaq.
[youtube]IPcpt3Be28o[/youtube]

Click to expand...

Hey, PurpDaddy, thanks for all you do here.

Would you pleae post that utube vid on our SH BB thread, please.

yes indeed.

FIM = Fuck I Missed.

thanks for the video, purpdaddy. very enlightening indeed.

have you tried adding a uv light yet? did you get noticeable results? anyone else?