Dual PC Stealth Grow -- Aurora Indica & Mazar x Afgan

Is there any way you can loop some zip ties through old rivet or screw holes to fasten the lights? I don't trust glue or tape, especially in an enclosed environment that has fluctuating temperature and humidity.

I'll chime in with a 3rd 'FUCK' at RIU going down in the middle of a post for 12hours.

LimitedTimer: that's what I was saying (about the fans). In my minds eye, the air gets pulled in by the intake....and sucked right back out by the exhaust. I think this has a lot to do with the heat problems; the lower part of the case is not circulating air.

Saturday, June 13th, 2009

Alright guys, I got some more time for a more detailed update. To start off, I have lost 2x bulbs and my 1st Aurora Indica plant. Luckily, I started germing my 1st Mazar a few days early. The Mazar, should be done germing tonight or tomorrow.

Now for a little bit better description on whats going on with my towers. I am going to relabel them as 'Unit 1' and 'Unit 2' from now on.

I am going to try to explain the problem with temps first. Unit 1 was the one that reached 112F. However, it only reached 112 without the fans installed. After I installed the fans into Unit 1 the temp settled at 100F. So the fans to make a difference, but Unit 2 never had this problem. Unit 2 without the fans installed only reached a temp of 88F and settled there. This forces me to look into other causes for this problem and the only other difference between the towers is that Unit 1 has an inside made of reflective metal where as Unit 2's inside is a grey primer metal. The only logical conclusion I can come up with is that Unit 1's reflective metal is transferring the light into heat, heating up the entire the case. I think that with the installation of mylar in Unit 1 that hopefully all the light will just continue to reflect rather than being transferred into heat. I think that Unit 2 has a better starting point with 88F, and hopefully with the installation of the fans in Unit 2 the temps will drop to roughly 78-85F.

I think that the temps are pretty much self concluding, however, I still havn't figured out the best way to 'keep' the lights up. As I think back to all the journals I have read, most of them that ran more than just 2 23w usually had duct tape on the power strip also. I will either do this or try and find some gorrilla glue.

DCN, Thanks for all the infor on your WW and Purple Lady. I greatly apprecite it, because like I said, purple lady looks awesome. The vegging would be a problem now that I am running dual perp but I might have that changed up by the time I get my next batch of seeds. I am leaving everyone open because fate has a way of shitting on my plans

There is no way I can use zip ties, which sucks because I have a surplus at work. I will work out a way. I hope I didn't come this far to be beaten by some unstable glue lol.

LT, My fans are set up with the top as Intake and bottom as exhaust. They are close to each other, but in Unit 1 I can feel a clear difference with them on and off. They might work better more seperate, but I think that once I get my carbon filter over the exhaust that it will allow more intake and circulation.

Thanks for the tips on your experience with the distance of the fans. It might be something I have to do. I will only know when my mylar comes in. I hope that I dont have to do any altering, but only time will tell.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I am going home tonight and installing my fans in Unit 2. I will then test the temps for a few hours and get back with all the updates. Hopefully, my 1st Mazar will be done germing, too.

-X

with having your intake and exaust right next to each other...the intake is doing nothing for one...the heat is just being pushed into the far cornor and not being removed...while cool air is being pushed in and immidiatly removed...

Your heat problem is exaust not intake....sounds wrong but in the end it works .

i bet money if you switched both to exuast and had a passive intake where a "network card /video card" work w/e would go..your tower will cool down instantly to the temp of your house. with 2 intakes and 1 exaust my temp was uncontrolable..with only 2 of the 3 fans my temp is almost To low at this point... exaust > intake


I also thought my heat problem started from emergancy blankets and removed them all......figured out my fan problem , now have all my blankets back installed. so..i doubt its the metal . thats a personal opinion

Also duct tape isn't..... safe.... Industrial tape is the only thing i would trust ....ducttape is a sealer not a holder..

wal mart sells 100 lbs dead weigh tape that is double sided...i use it to hold a fraekin coat rack on my wall for almost 3 years ...its like super super glue on a tape bascially.

its red tape next to the ducttape at wal mart

I definatly would not! trust duct tape....ever

Hey Xander
Sorry to hear about the lighting problems. I used an epoxy resin called Araldite and let it set for 24 hours.
Sounds like you should use unit 2 to start due to the lower temps. This will give you time to resolve any problems with unit 1 before you need to put it into service. One drawback to the perpetuals is that you never really get a chance for maintenance. If I have to fix or change something I tend to remove them and put them in a cupboard for their dark period and use that time to do what I need to do.

Some very accurate and helpful info on the fans there LT.

Hey, guys. Sorry for the lack of updates, I have been extremely busy. I finally have a working pair complete with 80-90F temps. Ill update tomorrow night, it's 530am here and I gotta work tomorrow. I got some pics and a whole lot of experience written down. Talk to ya'll tomorrow!

-X

Edit = Oh, and I forgot to say that LT is an exhaust genius! Everything you said was completely accurate from post 1 on the exhaust. I was just to blind/lazy to see. Thanks for all your help!

Tuesday, June 16th, 2009

As of today, I am back on track with my dual pc grow. I have had to alter a few things, but hopefully they won't affect things to much.

The red tape adhesive did not hold very well. I think I might have use to much, and I didn't notice that my power strip only had 2-4 surface areas that contacted the wall of my pc. To fix this I went to my local hardware store and found "Gorrilla Glue". With such small surface areas, and after much glueing, they finally held 3 bulbs with no sagging. Thus, that is fixed .

Then came the temp problems. Like I said in my last post, LT, was correct about my heating problems like 3-4 pages ago. I, too, blind to realize spent close to 12-16 hours testing different arrangements of many fans. My 'Aha' moment was when I had three bulbs in and 2 exhaust, 1 intake, and 2 passive intakes inside the unit. My temps with this test still climbed to 92-94F. This is when I decided that placement was key. After that I went back and read up and started from scratch. After all my tests and experiments this is what I concluded:

*All temps are of the digi at the bottom of the case*

3x 30W bulbs -- No matter the set up temps ranged from 91-95F. The best set up was 1 intake and 1 exhaust, (MUST BE AWAY FROM EA OTHER) but temps after a while still broke 90F+.

2x 30W bulbs -- Different set ups ranged from 81-90F. The best set up was 1 intake and 1 exhaust, (MUST BE AWAY FROM EA OTHER) and the temps ranged from 80-83 at the bottom and 85-90 at the top of the case.

I then proceeded to try 2x 30W bubls and 1x 13W bulb. This will give me 73W total and it containable. The temps only increased about a degree to two. The package did say 2700k but the color of the 'overall' light did change to a more orange tint.

Also, my mylar and nutes have arrived today. Once I install the mylar I will post up some pics. I took some while I was 'testing' but I havn't had time to upload them yet. So I should have some pic updates when I get home tonight.

And for my final update, my two Aurora Indica's I had germinating just got planted and place in the units today. They will see their 1st light tonight if they break the surface. Only 1 week and 1 day behind schedule

Comments and Questions:

LT, thank you so much for your help. I wish I would have saved some money and tried your way several days ago.

I will not be using duct tape, I am going to take your word as god's word

V12, it sucked I had such a rough start, however I believe that I brought in on myself.

As for my questions:

1) With only 60W-73W do you guys think I will be able to support 4 plants? DCN, when you gonna get that tutorial for the ballast done?

2) As for upgrades, I was thinking that I could either buy a larger power cord that can support more lights (lights would be more spread out), or use DCN's ballast tutorial to get more in there. However, do you think even with more spread out lights that I will see the same 'problem' temps as before?

3) After everything is installed and working properly my growing deminsions are: 15.5Wx12Hx7.5 I was thinking that I might have to alter my growing cycle due to this. I am not sure, but it is hard to visualize all this going on w/o anything really there. I was wondering if you guys think that I will still be able to get the 8 plant perp? With the tape measure out, it looks like I can, but I just want to know everyone's opinions and thoughts on what the best bang for my buck would be. I wouldn't mind keeping one unit as a perp and the other as a 'full-scale' grow. Just kinda wondering if the extra vegging and topping would really out weigh the dual perp in the long run.

Thanks for sticking in there with me guys! I really appreciate everyone's help and encouragement over the past few days.

-X

sorry to hear the red tape didnt work, glad to hear your temps are up

odd the red tape might just suck on some surfaces sorry if i awasted a few bucks on ya that seems to work well with wood to drywall.

My buddy is using 13 watter as well to keep his temps low...seems to be workingjust fine with only about 66 watts or so in the box.... (he started a week after me and his plant is way better then mine atm.. )

keep on truckin bro!

as for the 8 plant perpetual...since your starting one at a time it'll be hard to tell but i'd assume itll be close call but at different heights and w/e i dont think they should crowd each other that much so 8 plants should still be do-able...maybe less LST room but still enough for toping each once or twice i'd assume

I am uploading the pics that I was talking about. LT, don't sweat the red tape. Glad to hear that your friend is doing well with just 63W. I was fearing that 60-73W wouldn't be enough to support healthy growth. Thanks for your opinion on the 8 plant perp grow. I don't really know why I was questioning my cycle, just wanted to make sure that I over looking some clean way to guarantee a great yield. Anyways, lets get to those pics:


Pics 1-4 are of the fan placements I was trying while 'experimenting'.

Pic 5 is of the best exhaust system with my current set up. 1x 100mm Exhaust fan at the top and 1x 80mm Intake fan at the bottom.

Pics 6-7 are of my two new babies. They got planted this afternoon around 3pm. Received their first light at 10pm-3am.

Current temps are 80F with a humidity of 55% with a high of 59%.

I am going to let them finish up their first cycle and at 10am they will hit darkness and hopefully start protruding from the soil Nite everyone!

-X

Thursday, June 18th, 2009

Current temps: [unit1] 82F, 90F@soil, roughly 2 inches away from light.

Humidity: 46%

Aurora Indica 1: Broke though the soil this afternoon. At roughly 3am it is just under an inch tall. The top is still pointing towards the ground, but will hopefully perk up soon.

Aurora Indica 2: Broke though the soil this afternoon. At roughly 3am it is just under an inch tall. This baby looks great and lush.

Tonight will be their first night seeing artificial light after breaking the soil. Thus, guys I would say that this journal has officially started!

I got a few pics to show the progress, too.

Pics 1&4 are of earlier today when they just started showing some greenage.

Pic 2 is of AI 1, still seems to be looking downwards. First day though, might just need some time.

Pic 3 is of both AI's sitting on top of some green dvd cases.

Pic 5 is of AI 2, looks beautiful. Came up nice and straight, scaling in right at an inch tall.



That pretty much wraps me up for tonight guys. Day 1 is over, so now we just gotta make it though a few more and my goal will be reached before I know it. Good nite everyone,

X

PS: Urgent question, I have been checking my temps at soil and they are ranging from 89-92. This is roughly 2-3 inches away from the light. Is this okay?

check outt my thread leave coment men and my bud i lonely

Plants should be ok at those temps Xander, but keep an eye on it as they won't tolerate much above 90F.

Saturday, June 20th, 2009

So it's 3pm here and the babies are in the darkness till 10pm. Currently I have both AI's in Unit 1 while I tweak and mylar Unit 2. I am about 25% done with mylaring the second unit, but after testing the temps with 2x 30W and 1x13W I noticed that the temps were reaching above 92F. Thus, I decided to up the ante by altering my air flow in Unit 2. I then proceeded to adjust from 1 exhaust (100mm) at the top and 1 intake (80mm) at the bottom to 1 intake (100mm) at the top and 2x exhaust (80mm) at the bottom. Sadly, though, I believe that after testing this last night it will not make the significant difference I was hoping for. I think that the dual exhaust (stacked on top of each other about 6 inches away from the intake) at the bottom is sucking out enough heat, however, once it has escaped I fear that the exhausted heat will just rise to the intake at the top and be recirculated. I am going to be testing both units with only 2x 30W for the first six hours over the next two days. The babies are looking great despite the 89-93F temps. Just want to know what everyone thinks.

Pic 1 is of AI 1 and Pic 2 is of AI 2

Pic 3 is of Unit 1's exhaust set up. Top is exhaust and bottom is intake.

Pics 4 and 5 are of where I am testing the temps from.

Pic 6 is of Unit 2's exhaust system I am testing. Two exhaust fans at the bottom stacked upon each other. Pic 7 is of Unit 2's Intake, roughly, 5-7 inches away from the exhaust.

*NOTICE* I just thought that I started seeing these 'high' temps after my A/C started fucking up. This past week it has been running on 70F, but only gets down to about 76-80F with it on. They will be fixing it soon though.


Going back to work

-X

Edit=Well, the guy that was fixing my AC said that it was working fine, just not keeping up with the heat in the attic where the central heat and air is located. This is quite a delima not just for my plants but for me too. I'll update my solutions I think of *lol* when I get home =\ Wish me luck, yet again, everyone

Hey Xander
Can't really work out where some of those fans are from the pics.
If you put your hand in front of one when it's going you can feel that it doesn't put out a tube of air, it comes out at 45 degrees from the sides. This blows most airflow plans to shit.
The way to use it is to push a wall of air from one side to the other. The hot air is in the top half of the case so this is the area to focus on. 2 fans 1 above the other front and back. 30 - 50% more power on the exhaust side to account for odour control.
Best I've found.

looks like you got your intake blowing onto your lights and your outtake on the bottom.. that might be some cause of heat issue..heat rises so its just easiser per say to pull the heat off the bulbs and out the case instead of blowing the bulbs heat to the front of your case ..

just a thought, ive never personaly put my intake high so it might not change anything

i see two different fan set ups in those pictures, is that both cases? or

edit im stoned and didnt real what you typed last message clearly......

I'l second that comment, LT.

Stick in there!
soooooofrickin worth it. Just finished cutting and trimming the rest of my colas. The main colas got chopped last week as they were showing 50% amber trichs, let the secondary buds go about 9 days longer and now i'm blazez on scissors hash.

Excuse me while I go dig into my indian food...

Monday, June 22nd, 2009

How was everyone's weekend? I had a few surprises over the past few days. As you read my air conditioner was not kicking hard enough or just not keeping up with the brutal heat wave we have been hit with. The repair man came to fix it today and say that it should get and hopefully stay lower than 78. It is roughly 130am here right now and I am sitting at 72-73F, which feels amazing by the way. I just pray that it doesn't just raise back up tomorrow.

Anyways, to the stars of the show:

Current Temp: 88F@tops and 84F@soil
Current Humidity: 32%

AI#1: has remained small and compact. Focusing most growth on stem and turning a very deep 'evergreen' color. Currently only has 2 fan leaves but has remained very lush, green, and stable over the past few days.

AI#2: has me quite bewildered. The first day AI2 shot up about an inch and had larger fan leaves than I had originally imagined. The second day only brought two more fan leaves and unlike AI1, AI2 settled to a more lime color, which is currently leading me to believe that it might be a Sativa plant and not an Aurora Indica at all. This would really piss me off, because I paid good money and was really expecting to smoke some blue weed on my birthday. Back to the topic, today when I checked on the babies, AI2 had almost twisted it's self up so I added 2 more DVD cases because I thought it might be 'seeking' more light. After the lights came on tonight I went to check on the temps and noticed that AI2 had literally twisted herself into an '~' type shape to get to the light. So I put a bobbie pin in to secure her to be up right, then filled both pots up with fresh soil. Took away a lot of AI2's 'strechy' stem, so I hope that helps it become a bit more stable.


I, also, took some better pictures of my set-up and have thrown some recent pics of the babies.

Pic 1: Unit 1's set up. 2x 30W 2700k bulbs, 1 intake at the bottom 1 exhaust at the top, extra dvd cases used for leverage.

Pic 2: AI#2 showing her sexy stem. *Yesterday*

Pic 3: AI#1 in her beautiful glory. *Yesterday*

Pic 4: AI#2 *Yesterday*

Pic 5: AI#2 after re soiling and pulled upright *today*

Pic 6: AI#1 after your re soiling. *today*

Pic 7: bird eye

Pic 8: AI#2 compared to a lighter. Roughly, .75in of her stem was covered during the re soil.

Pic 9-11: Unit 2's setup. 2x 30W bulbs, 2x exhaust on the bottom and 1x intake on the top. Reason for altering: I really wanted to get at least an extra 13W bulb in the middle so I figured that if I turned the 100mm fan into an intake directly on the bulbs and added more exhaust that I could keep the temps down. I have not been able to test since my ac broke down, but I will be testing soon.


Questions and Comments:

V12, I think you might be right about my fans. I was wondering if you could maybe draw a simple diagram in paint to help me out. I am more of a visual learner, lol, just want you think would allow me to get 3 bulbs in my units.

LT, Yeah from what my tests expressed last time was that the 2x fan keep it just as cool or even cooler than the 'current' set up I have in Unit 2. The 1 intake and 1 exhaust I am running in Unit 1 work amazing for 2x bulbs, but I really want to get 3x bulbs and nothing seems to work. If you have any opinions, I would greatly appreciate it. I have some pics of several angles of my set up, just ask that you do some sort of diagram just to help me.

DCN, Thanks for the encouragement. Glad to hear you beauts are almost done. Mind if I ask what succors hash is? Has the colas finished curing yet? If so where are those smoke reports

Well guys that pretty much ends my night here. I hope you all enjoy my pics, hopefully soon Ill have bud porn Till then though, things have been going over rather smoothly. I hope things keep going well.

I do have a vacation coming up. I will be gone for 5 days from July 1st-July 5th. I will be germing a Mazar tomorrow night and hopefully planting before I leave on the 1st. Luckily, I do have a brother that will be checking in on the ladies and keeping them watered.

Talk to ya'll tomorrow and Good Night,
-X

Hey Xander. I'm no Leonardo
I'll knock something up for you though. Check back later.

are you using 2700k's only? ideal for 12/12 yah but i cant seem to control my temps on them vary well either.. seems they dont hold heat on the glass like the 6500ks and just release it into the air as heat.

ill post a diagram for this idea but if you dont plan to Raise / lower your lights here is a solution i thought may work

Sorry for the crappy drawing but it should illustrate the way I do things.

Look at the pots and the canopy / foliage in the pic.
You will not get airflow there whatever method you employ. Everything is just too densely packed. Consequently you can only affect the top 1/3 of the case. Anything else is wasted effort IMHO.
The idea then is to suck / push a wave of air across the canopy and the lights.

My simple drawing is balanced for an open system but if you employ odour control on the exhausts then an extra fan will be needed to compensate for the loss of efficiency caused by covering them.
Hope that helps.