Drain To Waste Top Watering by Hand Rockwool

Clones are a little bit different since they came from a mature female that was being fed her full strength veg nutes.

If I take a clone off one of my mother plants which is being fed @ 650ppm. here is what I do...

I soak my root riot cubes with my base veg nutes @ 150-200ppm along with a root stimulator. I like Rapid Start from Gen. Hydro. All said and done my solution is around 200ppm(the root stim barely increases ppm).

I use the 200ppm at the start to be safe, since they were being fed 650ppm when they were attached to it's mother they should be able to handle that strength. Some people go full strength from the get go-what ever their mother was being fed is what the clones get, however, I have had bad experiences doing that.

I start @ 200ppm and increase by 100ppm every time I have to moisten my cubes. In 7-10days I'm up around 600-650ppm, same as it's mother.

Note: I run lower ppm then a lot of people, 600ppm @ 1 month old is pretty conservative. I also don't think that running your ppm up until you see slight burn is a good thing-I use to think that pushing my nutes up as high as the plants could handle was a good thing. I realized in my older age that plants seam to thrive at slightly lower ppm then they do at their absolute threshold.

Remember, it's easy to fix a plant that is underfed. It's not so easy to nurse a really burnt plant back to it's vigorous self, not to mention that fact that you have to look at that aweful nutrient burn for the remainder of it's life.

And you really do need a TDS or EC meter.

Going by a 1/4 what the bottle recommends is really inaccurate. When I first got my meter I did a little test.

I measured a tsp. of my grow nutes and mixed them into a gallon of water. Then I did the same thing with another gallon of water. When I measured the TDS of each gallon, the first was 120ppm and the second was 180ppm. That is a 50% difference!

The meter is really important to know exactly what you are giving your plants. I like to increase by 50-100ppm at a time, I would have a hell of a time doing that accurately. Acctually, you can't do that accurately without one.

They also give you peace of mind. You'll never second guess if you gave them 'too much' or measured incorrectly. That way if you have an issue it's much easier to diagnose the problem.

Squidbilly said:

Some people go full strength from the get go-what ever their mother was being fed is what the clones get, however, I have had bad experiences doing that. .

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I read into this idea whenever I first started cloning way back when. Like you I had a pretty bad experience. I tried to feed freshly rooted clones 700ppms and they didn't like it at all. In fact they curled up and went dormant for almost 3 weeks. My current seedling/cloning formula is the absolute shit though. It consist of 10ml of cannastart, 10ml of Cannas Rhizotonic, and 1.5ml of calmag per gallon in 120ppm tap water. Comes out to around 400ppm. Using this on clones and 2nd week seedlings. I get the best growth rate from clone I have ever seen using this combo.

my aeroponic clones do fine in straight happy frog soil, with 20% extra perlite added
just water once and a while, focus of oxygen getting to the roots and the plant will process the nutrients in the soil
when i do clones there is no need to add anything to the water
anything added will just decrease my strike % because anything extra in the water is just going to promote bad bacteria

my exactish process..
cut clones and put straight into water. from here i put them into the cloner (i have one of those 10 or 15 dollar timers that does like 2 min on 12 min off or something.. (really can't remember the numbers)
after 3 days from cutting, i change the water in the cloner. (i believe any scraps from cutting will have made their way into the water by now )
after the clones root, i swap water again then add a dose of "rapid start" or KLN
rapid start is by GH and is basically alfalfa, willow, and algae extracts
KLN i'm not sure of but i use for synthetic grows as a root promoter
the two products serve the same purpose, just rapid start is for soil (microbe friendly/natural/"organic") grows

anyways after the roots pop out of several spots (probably 3 or 4) and are at lease an inch lone, i plant em into the moist soil , cover it, water a little bit more and wait as long as possible until next watering (don't want to water and have plant fall over)

soil clones get water then get transplanted into soil with more nutes and get fed water until either transplanted again or 2 weeks later at 1/4 dose

or

hydro plants get 1/4 or even 1/8 dose.
remember most tap water has enough of everything in it for plants that are still trying to develop roots. Seriously my tap is 110 ppm and i still don't add stuff unless its got a lot of roots. In this case i will add the 1/8 or 1/4 dose (depending on how i feel )
dyna grow @ 1/4 dose is like 1/2 tsp per 5 gal or 1/8 dose at 1/4 tsp per 5 gal so go figure
I use dyna grow foliage pro (9-3-6) and pro-tekt (0-0-3) at corresponding dosages. also leech with 3x medium worth of fresh water every month or so
hope this helps!

I should have mentioned I use RO water that comes out around 5-8ppm.

Squidbilly said:

I should have mentioned I use RO water that comes out around 5-8ppm.

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i use straight up spring at 7.0 exactly..

okay so now my clones are 12 days old and starting to show roots outside starter block..they are all 2-4" in height..when i transfer to hugo blocks 6x6x6 when do you recommend i start flower?

EDIT: also, the top is off clone tray..should i turn off heat mat?

ppm pen is on its way until then i did 1/8 label for last feed which really greened them overnight.

current is ffnutes liquid and soluble, botinicare cal-mag and superthrive.

schuylaar said:

okay so now my clones are 12 days old and starting to show roots outside starter block..they are all 2-4" in height..when i transfer to hugo blocks 6x6x6 when do you recommend i start flower?

EDIT: also, the top is off clone tray..should i turn off heat mat?

ppm pen is on its way until then i did 1/8 label for last feed which really greened them overnight.

current is ffnutes liquid and soluble, botinicare cal-mag and superthrive.

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after u transplant, feed for about 4 weeks, after that u can start flowering your plants. after u have seen roots, u dont need the heat pad anymore. just transplant them. and then start feeding the vegging regiment. week1-week4. after u transplant feed them once, then u can feed them every OTHER day. so every 2 days go ahead and feed. when u transplant the clones, make sure u pull the wrapper outside of the rockwool up a little bit ont he bigger rockwool, maybe about half inch or so, that way ur water wont leak everywhere and acts as a catch as your water the cubes, i use a wand so that helps a lot. when u do flower tho, make sure that you are on a day off of feeding, that way u dont have take them into another room while their all heavy and soaked with all that water. i normally use 12 plants per 4x4 tray. when i flower, i usually end up with 1.5 lb's after im done. I use to run an OG strain. and we all know OG has crap yields. I've switched to coco after rockwool, each has their pros and cons, but coco has just made my life easier. i did run 2 waste with rockwool and still doing that with coco. coco is pretty much the same thing as rockwool but much more forgiving. and throwing out soaked cubes can get to be a headache, unless you let them dry out, but i dont have time for that, after a harvest is done, another batch from veg goes in. well anyways im starting to ramble.


quick edit. after u flower. feed everyday. the first week u can feed every other, but after that feed everyday!

Squidbilly said:

I think the blocks will work good, and I gotta say after mixing my last batch of coco and perlite, big rw blocks sound really nice : )

Just treat it like any other inert medium- fresh nutrient solution until run-off everyday=happy and healthy plants.

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i've got 18 i need to water everyday..how do i mix nutes effectively? each plant will take a gallon of solution for run-off..how do i mix 18 gallons? or do i just mix up new solution per gallon?

what do you do?

EDIT: yeah, you won't miss the mixing that's one reason i went to them.

d0rk2dafullest said:

after u transplant, feed for about 4 weeks, after that u can start flowering your plants. after u have seen roots, u dont need the heat pad anymore. just transplant them. and then start feeding the vegging regiment. week1-week4. after u transplant feed them once, then u can feed them every OTHER day. so every 2 days go ahead and feed. when u transplant the clones, make sure u pull the wrapper outside of the rockwool up a little bit ont he bigger rockwool, maybe about half inch or so, that way ur water wont leak everywhere and acts as a catch as your water the cubes, i use a wand so that helps a lot. when u do flower tho, make sure that you are on a day off of feeding, that way u dont have take them into another room while their all heavy and soaked with all that water. i normally use 12 plants per 4x4 tray. when i flower, i usually end up with 1.5 lb's after im done. I use to run an OG strain. and we all know OG has crap yields. I've switched to coco after rockwool, each has their pros and cons, but coco has just made my life easier. i did run 2 waste with rockwool and still doing that with coco. coco is pretty much the same thing as rockwool but much more forgiving. and throwing out soaked cubes can get to be a headache, unless you let them dry out, but i dont have time for that, after a harvest is done, another batch from veg goes in. well anyways im starting to ramble.


quick edit. after u flower. feed everyday. the first week u can feed every other, but after that feed everyday!

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how do you mix that much solution everyday? could you walk me through what you do for daily feeding? do you use a big container or mix separately per gallon (which seems like a ton of work)..i want to be time efficient.

i did pull up the wrappers..totally awesome idea!

thanks!

Squidbilly said:

Note: I run lower ppm then a lot of people, 600ppm @ 1 month old is pretty conservative. I also don't think that running your ppm up until you see slight burn is a good thing-I use to think that pushing my nutes up as high as the plants could handle was a good thing. I realized in my older age that plants seam to thrive at slightly lower ppm then they do at their absolute threshold.

Remember, it's easy to fix a plant that is underfed. It's not so easy to nurse a really burnt plant back to it's vigorous self, not to mention that fact that you have to look at that aweful nutrient burn for the remainder of it's life.

Click to expand...

regarding ppm's..my water has 250ppm is that included in the overall ppm equation? i have been just don't know if it's correct..meaning i start off already with the 250 and add nutes until it's 600? or do i take the 250 ppm out of the total sum?

Just get a 40 gal trash can and a decent pump put an air stone and maybe some wheels on it and it should be easy. I run a hose from the bathroom to fill it. 3 days worth of nutes right there

burgertime2010 said:

Just get a 40 gal trash can and a decent pump put an air stone and maybe some wheels on it and it should be easy. I run a hose from the bathroom to fill it. 3 days worth of nutes right there

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awesome idea! i'm moving to an apartment..what type of pump and delivery system? what would the air stone be for? currently, i'm mixing in 5 gallon painters bucket.

you have to walk me through this since this is my first hydro.

thanks for the response..sometimes the fine details which seem obvious to one person is not to the next.

now get back in politics and troll!

<3

schuylaar said:

awesome idea! i'm moving to an apartment..what type of pump and delivery system? what would the air stone be for? currently, i'm mixing in 5 gallon painters bucket.

you have to walk me through this since this is my first hydro.

thanks for the response..sometimes the fine details which seem obvious to one person is not to the next.

now get back in politics and troll!

<3

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So you have to put the can on wheels because of how heavy it gets. Find a place to run in your water from. If you can attach a threaded valve that fits a gardenhose you can just fill up like that. Put a pump at the bottom of the an attached to black flexible tubing. This should act as your delivery when the pump is on just like a garden hose would. The airstone keeps the tank circulating and oxygenated. Just keep the lid on when u are done mixing nutes. Can u dig it?

Yeah do what that guy said to do. I got me a pump with a hose to attach to it with a wand. To water.

schuylaar said:

how do you mix that much solution everyday? could you walk me through what you do for daily feeding? do you use a big container or mix separately per gallon (which seems like a ton of work)..i want to be time efficient.View attachment 3178722 View attachment 3178723 View attachment 3178724 View attachment 3178725

i did pull up the wrappers..totally awesome idea!

thanks!

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I see that you are using a rubbermaid tub as a tray. Good idea. But what u should do is get a piece of wood and prop that on two 5 gal or 2 gal buckets. so that it looks like a stand. after u have put a piece of wood and buckets. make a hole onto your rubbermaid tub. and use another 2 gal or 5 gal bucket to catch that waste water. when i water i make sure there is some runoff and that runoff will just sit there in your tub if u do not let it drain, the water will start to fluctuate and your girls will soak that up. you always wanna give your girls fresh feedings, and try not to leave any old water for them, not good. but that is a drain to waste style, u can however reuse it, but it's work. and for a budget person, it may seem like that work is alright. so there are 2 ways to go about it. you just have to make sure your ph and ppm are not gnna exceed what you are feeding it. and make sure that they are on point. btw if your top of the rockwool start getting hard for any reason. get a bunch of skewers and start poking holes on the top layer so that when u feed, it will take your water. i've had this happen to me as i was using molasses, and tm-7. also i think you should be using and r/o system for like drinking water or something, that is the best water for your rockwool hydro. if you have 250 ppm already in your water. that might be cal/mag and such but your nutes should be based around HARD water. and not soft water. ask your hydro store more, if u have any questions about that. well... GOOD LUCK MATE


Get 2 buckets, put a piece of wood on buckets like a 2'x4', to make a table, then throw your tray onto the piece of wood. tilt it so that it drains well. i have my trays on 4 buckets, and a 4'x4' piece of wood, and i screwed a 2"x4" so that it would tilt and drain. with a bucket catching the waste.

schuylaar said:

regarding ppm's..my water has 250ppm is that included in the overall ppm equation? i have been just don't know if it's correct..meaning i start off already with the 250 and add nutes until it's 600? or do i take the 250 ppm out of the total sum?

Click to expand...

I always include it in my total ppm. Chances are that most of the disolved solids in your water are cal and mag, so they should be included in your total ppm. I use reverse osmosis water which starts at 0-5ppm. I add cal/mag until I hit 200ppm, then the rest of nutes. I certaintly count that 200ppm in my total ppm.

I always say to add it to be safe-you can always bump their feed up if you have to.

also when you are bumping up nutes. you will always most likely keep your additives the same ppm, and when you are bumping up the nutes ppm, ur bumping up the base and that's it. so like week 1 your feeding 500 ppm, week 2 600ppm you only added more a + b to get to that 600 ppm. not more cal mag, b52, so on.

I second dork2 with the R.O system. My tap water comes out around 230ppm, mostly cal/mag, and while it worked and many people I know use it to grow, I noticed a big difference when switching to R.O.

R.O takes a lot of guess work out of the equation since you start as zero ppm. That being said, you absolutely have to supplement every watering with cal/mag and make sure to add it to the water FIRST before you base nutes.

It's an expense, but I'll never grow without one again.