Does organic soil dry out slower?

Flaming Pie said:

Even for organics?

I wonder I'd the problem is I put it in too large a pot from clone. It had 2.5 gallons to a clone with maybe 11inch main root and 3-4 secondary roots.

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dude... yes this is it. i would never put a new clone in a 2.5 gallon pot just for this reason. you can get away with it by just watering around the clone and not saturation the entire grow container. I promise this is the reason. when the roots develop and get larger they will fill the container in and drink more water and you will have to water more often. you only need to get water to the root zone. anywhere else is pointless and just causes the soil to be saturated for longer when it doesn't need to be. I like to stage my plants, from the cloner they go into a pint sized container, then to 3/4 gallon, then to final container. this way you wont have problem with plants having wet feet for too long.

ShLUbY said:

dude... yes this is it. i would never put a new clone in a 2.5 gallon pot just for this reason. you can get away with it by just watering around the clone and not saturation the entire grow container. I promise this is the reason. when the roots develop and get larger they will fill the container in and drink more water and you will have to water more often. you only need to get water to the root zone. anywhere else is pointless and just causes the soil to be saturated for longer when it doesn't need to be. I like to stage my plants, from the cloner they go into a pint sized container, then to 3/4 gallon, then to final container. this way you wont have problem with plants having wet feet for too long.

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Yeah. I'm definitely going to add more drainage with perlite to whatever I get.

I let my clones stay in the cloner too long. It felt wrong to cut or curl her main root. But I suppose air pruning does the same thing.

So solo cups from cloner for sure next time.

I need to get back to basics. All this new organic shit is making me forget my abc's haha.

Flaming Pie said:

Yeah. I'm definitely going to add more drainage with perlite to whatever I get.

I let my clones stay in the cloner too long. It felt wrong to cut or curl her main root. But I suppose air pruning does the same thing.

So solo cups from cloner for sure next time.

I need to get back to basics. All this new organic shit is making me forget my abc's haha.

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your target drainage should be around 33% of the base mix.

ShLUbY said:

your target drainage should be around 33% of the base mix.

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33% of mix that has perlite? Or am I supposed to exclude the promise perlite?

Flaming Pie said:

33% of mix that has perlite? Or am I supposed to exclude the promise perlite?

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33% of your total soil mix. pearlite, or crushed lava rock, pumice, growstone (recycled exploded glass which is basically pumice), rice hulls, w/e you like!

a good base recipe i use with no NPK amendments is:

33% aeration/drainage made up of whatever is listed above, can be any combination you like
33% compost, be it earth worm casting, compost from garden/veggie scraps, ancient forest, or a mix of any
33% peat (can use leaf mold or coco if you desire)

so basically the base mix is 1:1:1 ratio. you can make slight tweaks in any direction to suit your needs.

to a cubic foot (7.5gal) of that soil base I add: 3 cups of rock dust blend of whatever is easy to resource for you (glacial, basalt, azomite, greensand, or any other), 1/2cup of oyster shell flour to help with ph (lime could be used 1/2 and 1/2 with oyster shell flour)

you can also use biochar no problem in this mix at no more than 10% of the total soil mix.

Flaming Pie said:

I have a question.. should I toss the ammonia smelling soil? Is that a sign of bad microbes?

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Probable. Xould perhaps switch back to aerobic. Right now is anaerobic and bad decomp. It should smell likr fresh earth. Lay out on a tsrp with a fan maybe? Or go get some sunshine mix #4

Flaming Pie said:

33% of mix that has perlite? Or am I supposed to exclude the promise perlite?

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If your peat has perlite do the math to get to your one part each base mix.

Alright. I'm going to the store today to get soil, perlite and azomite.

Someone also pointed out that if I don't prewet the pro mix that could cause it to push out all the air as it expands.

So, I am tossing all the soil I have now and starting over.

I'm going to take clones off the organic gal I have soon. Start those ones off in a fluffier better drainage mix.

Flaming Pie said:

I have a question.. should I toss the ammonia smelling soil? Is that a sign of bad microbes?

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No throw it on tarp let it dry out add an aact to it and re cook it it will be fine

Flaming Pie said:

Alright. I'm going to the store today to get soil, perlite and azomite.

Someone also pointed out that if I don't prewet the pro mix that could cause it to push out all the air as it expands.

So, I am tossing all the soil I have now and starting over.

I'm going to take clones off the organic gal I have soon. Start those ones off in a fluffier better drainage mix.

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Instead of perlite which floats when you water get cowboy charcoal red lava rock pumice rotted wood chunks. All above is actually extremely better then perlite

anzohaze said:

No throw it on tarp let it dry out add an aact to it and re cook it it will be fine

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I'm not that far into organics. Lol. Maybe one day I will get to using teas.

Flaming Pie said:

I'm not that far into organics. Lol. Maybe one day I will get to using teas.

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Listen if your making super soil you need to learn about aact. It's super easy.. do you have a air pump(decent size) and air stones and a bucket if so your golden.

Your ammonia smelling soil is due to being to wet and not enough air flow.. if you add microbes it will turn it to great soil again. An aact is simple add 4 gal of water to bucket and add air pump and stone so the entire bucket bubbles. Add 2 handfuls of earth worm casting and a few tablespoons of molasses and let it bubble for 24 hours then just water with that that's it. If you have no earth worm castings go find a heavily wooded forest etc around and scrape the top layer off to get to soil and use that as its loaded with microbes as well

Flaming Pie said:

I'm not that far into organics. Lol. Maybe one day I will get to using teas.

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You'll be ok, just open that bag of soil out and let it dry, it'll be fine.
Stir it every day or so, but if it's dry your soil will be all good in a day or three.
I was going to inquire as to what type of container you have?
Certain types don't do well...
Smartpots are the norm for organics

I have to water Every day.. If I don't my entire pot goes hydrophobic.

Generally around a month of veg and my 10 gallons are almost full

Benefits of good compost paired with good amendments and adequate aeration. I suggest using lava rock or pumice.

ever since I switched from a super soil type to a true living type my plants grow too fast for me to EVER over water.

It's actually kind of ridiculous, I had to start putting my plants under a screen because they turned into 5ft freaks of nature since I started using homemade vermicompost

I've noticed that Promix over time on it's own tends to retain water longer if you don't gradually build up the plant through various sized pots. I live in an area where it's quite difficult to get a lot of the higher grade growing stuff like worm castings, bat guano and even stuff like perlite/vermiculite and instead there's a lot of manure based composts being sold. But are crushed lava rock, pumice and growstone good alternative for perlite/vermiculite?

driel said:

But are crushed lava rock, pumice and growstone good alternative for perlite/vermiculite?

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yes they are preferred over perlite. i dont remember who, but someone on here uses vermiculite. basically just don't use perlite lol. Rice hulls are also a good drainage source when combined with other sources of drainage.

you could probably make your own worm castings pretty easy. theres a worm farming thread in the organics section, should be on the first page of threads.

guano's aren't necessary. things like kelp meal, alfalfa meal, fish bone meal, crab shells, oyster shells (or any calcium based shell crushed up), and all of these things are easy to find without grow stores around.

good to know, thanks for the info.

ShLUbY said:

yes they are preferred over perlite. i dont remember who, but someone on here uses vermiculite. basically just don't use perlite lol. Rice hulls are also a good drainage source when combined with other sources of drainage.

you could probably make your own worm castings pretty easy. theres a worm farming thread in the organics section, should be on the first page of threads.

guano's aren't necessary. things like kelp meal, alfalfa meal, fish bone meal, crab shells, oyster shells (or any calcium based shell crushed up), and all of these things are easy to find without grow stores around.

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I've used vermiculite on many occasions, it works well, and is similar i'd say to rice hulls, in that they will compress with time.
My brother used to work at a garden supply store, got a big ass bag of vermiculite and i used every speck of it, too bad it was years ago when I didn't re-use my soil.
good shit though, retains a lot of water.

greasemonkeymann said:

I've used vermiculite on many occasions, it works well, and is similar i'd say to rice hulls, in that they will compress with time.
My brother used to work at a garden supply store, got a big ass bag of vermiculite and i used every speck of it, too bad it was years ago when I didn't re-use my soil.
good shit though, retains a lot of water.

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That's why I'm using perlite.

My mix will have approximately 42% perlite. A good amount with the EWC being mixed in.

Got my clones sprouting root nubs now. Another 5 days or so and I will be making the mix for them.

Flaming Pie said:

That's why I'm using perlite.

My mix will have approximately 42% perlite. A good amount with the EWC being mixed in.

Got my clones sprouting root nubs now. Another 5 days or so and I will be making the mix for them.

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that's a good call, one thing i'd be concerned with in a soil based with peat and EWC is surface tension, hydrophobic tension.
Even with that much perlite, because your drainage will exceed your soil ability to absorb the water.
I understand you are having retension issues, but when your plant takes off, that'll be a thing of the past.
Promix is a great way to simplify mixing a soil, but as a large part of the mix I don't really like it.
Can you find any fresh compost?
I know I sound like a broken record but I SWEAR fresh humus makes the difference...
I know EWC has humus as well, but the compost is totally different, in regards to conditioning the soil.