Does Cal/Mag = tap water and epsom salt?
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paintsprayer71
Well-Known Member
depends on where ya live, but thats all i do with tap water, ill give em some cal mag if im trying to correct a N def, but you cant beat epsom salts for the price for added Mg
bongmarley2009
Well-Known Member
I use about 70ppm of Cal-Mag periodically with my waterings. Epsom salts I believe cover the magnesium half. I'm not sure about the calcium.
Is there enough calcium in tap water? Mine comes out at 500ppm (San Diego).
bongmarley2009
Well-Known Member
500ppm is extremely hard tap water. I'm not sure if you can use it. Ive read that it shouldn't be higher than 140ppm, but my tap here runs at about 215ppm and I've had no problems. I would either buy bottled water or a reversed osmosis system ($100+) or if someone says you can use your tap, have a bucket of water with an airpump and airstone going.
I've been using it in my flood table for about 4 weeks and the plants look pretty good for the most part. Some of the leaves look a little funky but I'm hoping that's because I don't have the nutes and ph down yet. Anyone else using really hard tap water?
wiseguy316
Well-Known Member
they have micro solutions for hard water, but as for the original question i use epsom salt as soon as I see purple stems.
fatman7574
New Member
Botanicare Cal-mag is made with cacium nitrate and magnesium sulfate. Most water reports list hardness as calcium carbonate. That is not an indication of the level of calcium as it includes carbonates that contains no calcium as well as the calcium. If it is an actual report of the level of soluble calcium then that cals cium can be removed fro the tp water by haeting it and filtering it while it is still hot. Heating soluble calcium causes it to precipitate as calcium carbonate. However if it is nor filtered out while the water is hot then it will go back into solution when the water cools. The simpliest way to remove the calcium if it ois water soluble is to simplry run hot tap water throgh a coffee filter for use as nutrient water. After filtering out the calcium precipitates just let the water cool off before use.
So by filtering it like this I will be left with more absorbable calium in my water? I was thinking I'd just buy the Cal-Mag, I avoided at first since it seemed like it could be a "magic sauce." Should I still filter the water though?
fatman7574
New Member
By heating and filtering the water while hot you will have less soluble calcium. Calcium is only used by the plants in large amounts during the veg state. During budding calcium is mainly being used up in buffers formed in the nutrient solution not by the plants.
The reason for a larger amount of calcium during budding is that magnesium gets tied up in buffers if there is not enough calcium to be tied up instead. Nearly all calcium is located in stems not leaves or sex glands of mj. Too much calcium actually just falsely inflates the EC. By false inflation I mean that all other nutreient amounts are less because a great deal of the EC is calcium which the plant doesn't need. IE if you run the same EC over all but a larger percentage of cacium is added then there is less of the other many of the nutrients proportionally, meaning Phosphorus, Potassium and all the trace elements.
Cal-mag just supplies nitrogen, calcium, magnesium and a bit of iron. These are all items that are typically getting locked up in carbonates as buffers during budding. However nearly all formulas have more than adequate ammont of everthing but magnesium to allow for the carbonates that are formed.
Adding both Calcium and magnesium during budding is really over kill or just redundancy at best.
The real problem lies in preventing a magnesium deficiency during budding. That can be handled by either adding calcium to prevent magnesium from being tied up or in adding more magnesium to prevent a magnesium shortage if magnesium is tied up.
Coreyhulick
Active Member
What measure ment of water to epson salt would work best
fatman7574
New Member
The typical dosage for magnesium sulfate in a nutrient solution is 0.1 to 0.2 ounces per gallon if there is no magnesium in your original nutrients. That means approximately a maximum of 2.8 to 5.6 grams per gallon. A teaspoon of magnesium sulfate is approximatttely 12 grams. So as a supplement I would use between a 1/8 and a 1/4 teasppon a gallon. If your original nutrients conatin no magnesium sulfate then add 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. Thi is based upon thhe amount of calcium used by GH in its Flora series Bloom nutrients and upon te density of Magnesiun Sulfate being approx 2.5 grams per cubic centimeter.
fatman7574
New Member
Usually. pH flucuations are what cause most problems in the budding stage. The flucuations cause calcium, nitrogen and magnesium to be used up as bubbers, iron is precipitated at high pH's. these problems ae caused typiv cally by high nitrogen up take. High ammonium nitrogen causes a low pH using up carbonate buffers. High nitrate uptake causes the roots to reales carbonate ions which leads to the formation of bicarbonates complexs that use up phosphorous, calcium, magnesium, and nitrates.
gangjababy
Well-Known Member
No, there isn't.
MY tap water is hard and I need to use cal/mag.
I tried it without cal/mag and my plants showed deficiencies
fatman7574
New Member
Dude, like I said previously simply saying hard water says too little to determine whether the tap water supplies enough calcium or not for either the veg or the budding cycle. Water Hardness is made up of calcium, magnesium, carbonates, bicarbonates as well as non carbonate hardness A full water analyis was not provided so no one can with any accurately syay what his water can or can not due or supply.
Perhaps you have no idea what alkalinity means or non carbonate hardness. In reality very few people except boiler operators, water softener salesmen, water treatment plant operators and environmental engineers often know how to interpret a water analysis and thereby determine and classify total hardnees, carbonate hardness, alkalinity, non carbonate chemistry, warter soluble calcium and temporary hardnees. Even most reefkeepers never learn how to fully analyze a water sample or understand all the aspects of water hardness, alkalinity or water soluble calcium. Even fewer mj growers have a full understanding.
I've been following Al B. Fuct's threads and he mentioned that he always uses tap water. It sounds like there's a lot of weird stuff in it though. Do you think using RO water would be significantly better than tap water?
fatman7574
New Member
Nearly always RO water is a better safer choice that does not really add that great of an additional cost to production, especaially considering all the asssociatted problems many expereience by using tap water. The use of RO water can often mean higher yields and more potency based upon better control of nutrient concentrations and pH control. Nutrient formulas are generally based upon the use of RO water unless your nutrients are custom mixed based upon your tap water analysis.
I have no comments on AL B. Fuct other than I agrere with some of his opinion and strongly disagree with others. I also would not grow by his growing method nor would I buy Fytocell foam to use as a growing media based on the limited benfits in relation to its cost and other factors.
IMO he does have a really effecient set up, but some of his methods do seem a little lazy. Do you think there is a better alternative to SOG in small grow rooms?
I'm using sure to grow because it looked similar to the fytocell stuff. It is also way too expensive though. What medium do you suggest?