Do you support or oppose safety social net programs? (why?)

"Social safety nets, or "socioeconomic safety nets", are non-contributory transfer programs seeking to prevent the poor or those vulnerable to shocks and poverty from falling below a certain poverty level. Safety net programs can be provided by the public sector (the state and aid donors) or by the private sector (NGOs, private firms, charities, and informal household transfers). Safety net transfers include:

-Cash transfers
-Food-based programs such as supplementary feeding programs and food stamps, vouchers, and coupons
-In-kind transfers such as school supplies and uniforms
-Conditional cash transfers
-Price subsidies for food, electricity, or public transport
-Public works
-Fee waivers and exemptions for health care, schooling and utilities

On average, spending on safety nets accounts for 1 to 2 percent of GDP across developing and transition countries,[1] though sometimes much less or much more. In the last decade[when?], a visible growing expertise in various areas of safety nets has taken place. However, even though an increasing number of safety net programs are extremely well thought out, correctly implemented, and demonstrably effective, many others face — and create — serious challenges."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_safety_net

Finally a decent thread from you....

I do support.....what? Social safety nets and programs to break the fall, from your net, are two different things.

One of my brothers has a PhD. in Clinical Psychology. He runs the PTSD ward in the Boston VA Hospital.

His dissertation was on "Homelessness and the Breakdown of the Personal Safety Net."

He proved, quite convincingly (as he must to pass the program) that most of the Homeless are not insane or there by choice, they just have no place left to turn.

So, I would support programs that teach about how to form new safety nets.

Urban Street Soccer in SF is one of those. They create leagues and teams and teach a new way to think about their situation. It give them an instant safety net, since they pledge to help each other, on and off the field.

Throwing money at people on the bottom, and thinking that can help, is just plain wrong headed, do-gooder-ism, as I see it.

If America weren't spending trillions a year on their illegal wet dream war machine and giving billions in foreign aid away to countries to start wars, taxes on the people would be SO low that no one would mind paying into social safety nets.

America could feed the whole world tomorrow if it wanted to.

... and I'm always citing that statistic that 'there are 12 vacant homes in america for every 1 homeless person'.


Imagine if we abolished federal minimum wage laws and the homeless were legally allowed to work for 0-10$ an hour doing menial jobs? Instead of people hiring illegal non citizens for the same amount under the table? Would that reduce the size and scope of the safety net in the first place?

Good thread.

That being said, the BEST social safety net is CHARITY. One thing I can honestly say organized religion has done right in this country.

rohis said:

If America weren't spending trillions a year on their illegal wet dream war machine and giving billions in foreign aid away to countries to start wars, taxes on the people would be SO low that no one would mind paying into social safety nets.

America could feed the whole world tomorrow if it wanted to.

... and I'm always citing that statistic that 'there are 12 vacant homes in america for every 1 homeless person'.


Imagine if we abolished federal minimum wage laws and the homeless were legally allowed to work for 0-10$ an hour doing menial jobs? Instead of people hiring illegal non citizens for the same amount under the table? Would that reduce the size and scope of the safety net in the first place?

Good thread.

Click to expand...

you evil capitalist bastard!

you would exploit those who have nothing by letting them get a job for SOMETHING???

much better to give them a pittance from the public coffers, and design the program so that any attempt to get a foot on the ladder out of the gutter snatches that pittance away as quickly as possible, that way they will be trapped in the gutter, providing convenient scapegoats and human props for photo ops.

dont try to overturn the applecart with your vicious evil ayn rand style hate speech, you racist bigoted homophobe!

think of the people who would be hurt the most by your nefarious scheme!

where would politicians and the press get their Feels-Drenched sob stories and heart-wrenching anecdotes of hardship?

youre a monster!

I like it here

rohis said:

If America weren't spending trillions a year on their illegal wet dream war machine and giving billions in foreign aid away to countries to start wars, taxes on the people would be SO low that no one would mind paying into social safety nets.

America could feed the whole world tomorrow if it wanted to.

... and I'm always citing that statistic that 'there are 12 vacant homes in america for every 1 homeless person'.


Imagine if we abolished federal minimum wage laws and the homeless were legally allowed to work for 0-10$ an hour doing menial jobs? Instead of people hiring illegal non citizens for the same amount under the table? Would that reduce the size and scope of the safety net in the first place?

Good thread.

Click to expand...

oh no
Right wing Sock puppet attack!!

ChesusRice said:

oh no
Right wing Sock puppet attack!!

Click to expand...

one born every minute now a days

rohis said:

That being said, the BEST social safety net is CHARITY. One thing I can honestly say organized religion has done right in this country.

Click to expand...

Hey Rohis.

That is a very good point and I agree.

rohis said:

If America weren't spending trillions a year on their illegal wet dream war machine and giving billions in foreign aid away to countries to start wars, taxes on the people would be SO low that no one would mind paying into social safety nets.

America could feed the whole world tomorrow if it wanted to.

... and I'm always citing that statistic that 'there are 12 vacant homes in america for every 1 homeless person'.


Imagine if we abolished federal minimum wage laws and the homeless were legally allowed to work for 0-10$ an hour doing menial jobs? Instead of people hiring illegal non citizens for the same amount under the table? Would that reduce the size and scope of the safety net in the first place?

Good thread.

Click to expand...

ChesusRice said:

oh no
Right wing Sock puppet attack!!

Click to expand...

That's the first time I've ever been called right wing for defending welfare programs. lawl.

I support and perform voluntary charity.


If you support "involuntary charity" (oxymoron...I know) isn't that in some way saying that people don't own, what they own?

rohis said:

That's the first time I've ever been called right wing for defending welfare programs. lawl.

Click to expand...

You said 2 things.
Eliminate minimum wage
and
you blamed illegal immigrants for lack of jobs

About as right wing as you can get

Maine has a pretty interesting take on that Rob Roy..

They are putting steps in place to make it so that anyone on unemployment or collecting food stamps (if they aren't working but are capable of working) are required to do a certain amount of community service.

I'm not sure if I like the model or not.. that will depend on how well it works and only time will tell.

ChesusRice said:

You said 2 things.
Eliminate minimum wage
and
you blamed illegal immigrants for lack of jobs

About as right wing as you can get

Click to expand...

I see what you're saying..

But to specify, I did not know republicans were trying to do away with minimum wage all together..

and I wasn't trying to say/straight up absolutely did not say there are a lack of jobs at all.. I was trying to say allow Americans to compete for jobs in the low wage market. Cash jobs below minimum wage are illegal... I do not think it's 'republican' to say most of the people at that niche in the job force are non citizens.

and in either regard, I was still defending welfare as my main point.

Maybe I'll register as a republican in 2016 if they do, in fact, come out in support of welfare, legalizing free markets, and abandoning the war machine.

ChesusRice said:

oh no
Right wing Sock puppet attack!!

Click to expand...

better put him on ignore right now chesus, I can already tell you he's going to rattle your cage.

rohis said:

Maine has a pretty interesting take on that Rob Roy..

They are putting steps in place to make it so that anyone on unemployment or collecting food stamps (if they aren't working but are capable of working) are required to do a certain amount of community service.

I'm not sure if I like the model or not.. that will depend on how well it works and only time will tell.

Click to expand...

As usual, government has it ass backwards.

That is an attempt to put some lipstick on the pig. It doesn't address the issue of who, other than you can or should decide what you will give to charity and under which circumstances.

It's good to help others, not so good to hold people hostage and insist that a given charity is what they will donate to.

Forced "charity" sounds an awful lot like running others lives for them....because it is.

rohis said:

I see what you're saying..

But to specify, I did not know republicans were trying to do away with minimum wage all together..

and I wasn't trying to say/straight up absolutely did not say there are a lack of jobs at all.. I was trying to say allow Americans to compete for jobs in the low wage market. Cash jobs below minimum wage are illegal... I do not think it's 'republican' to say most of the people at that niche in the job force are non citizens.

and in either regard, I was still defending welfare as my main point.

Maybe I'll register as a republican in 2016 if they do, in fact, come out in support of welfare, legalizing free markets, and abandoning the war machine.

Click to expand...

Paulbot sock puppet even worse

Are you on your period or something?

rohis said:

Are you on your period or something?

Click to expand...

If you get chesus's goat too many times, he puts you on his ignore list.