Do you believe in God?
- Thread starter tortie
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Drowning-Man
Well-Known Member
Who do you call god, just curious
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
myvspoiled brother that everyone likes more than meWho do you call god, just curious
Drowning-Man
Well-Known Member
Drowning-Man
Well-Known Member
I'm a Christian but I'm backslidin I guess
GreenLogician
Well-Known Member
What has convinced you that the supernatural claims of Christianity are true?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
That was the point of the McKenna quote, science asks for that one "miracle". You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer, and on and on into infinity. See how that works? It's the same as saying "it must be God".
You put everyone who believes that life was created into the same basket, and follow that up by saying that they must have the exact same mindset. If you are as scientifically minded as you portrait, you wouldn't do that because you know it isn't true.
Neither side can put a finger on it, so lets agree on that and move on - for now.
GreenLogician
Well-Known Member
"science asks for that one "miracle""
--- No it doesn't. I just explained to you that it doesn't.
"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
--- No I didn't, I said it's NOT claimed to be a miracle, and that science says they don't know the answer.
Why do you hear 'it was a miracle' when scientists actually say 'I don't know' ?
Why did you hear me say 'science will eventually find the answer' when I actually say 'science currently doesn't know the answer'.
"See how that works? It's the same as saying "it must be God"."
--- No! We say "I don't know".
You say "It must have been magic".
Just you. Not the science, not the scientists, not me, just you. Free yourself from the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. Learn to say "I don't know" without saying "therefore it must have been a miracle". Don't accept it was a miracle until the evidence points in that direction.
It's okay not to know.
It's okay to be honest that we haven't found the answer, and not pretend that we found the answer must have been a miracle. We haven't.
"You put everyone who believes that life was created into the same basket"
--- No, I talk to people who believe that in many different ways. Some that deny vast fields of science to maintain their fundamentalist religious beliefs, young Earth creationists, even some that are flat Earthers.
And then, I meet believers who are totally reasonable, well educated, even scientists. There's a broad spectrum and I know it.
Pay attention to your surroundings harder and stop depending so much on stereotyping. All you see and hear is what you expect.
"Neither side can put a finger on it, so lets agree on that and move on - for now."
--- I wont stand idly by while silly claims go unaddressed, and I CAN put my finger on the error you're making, and that Terence McKenna was making there.
He didn't look into the science carefully enough.
He didn't bother to find out there are many naturalistic (no miracles) pre-big bang models.
He didn't even bother to find out that 'from nothing' is not the only such model.
He's never heard of eternal multiverse models of any variety, but I'm sure you have. Why didn't you think of them?
Why think everything must have come from nothing (by miracle or otherwise) if God doesn't exist?
That's not what the scientists are saying.
--- No it doesn't. I just explained to you that it doesn't.
"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
--- No I didn't, I said it's NOT claimed to be a miracle, and that science says they don't know the answer.
Why do you hear 'it was a miracle' when scientists actually say 'I don't know' ?
Why did you hear me say 'science will eventually find the answer' when I actually say 'science currently doesn't know the answer'.
"See how that works? It's the same as saying "it must be God"."
--- No! We say "I don't know".
You say "It must have been magic".
Just you. Not the science, not the scientists, not me, just you. Free yourself from the fallacy of the argument from ignorance. Learn to say "I don't know" without saying "therefore it must have been a miracle". Don't accept it was a miracle until the evidence points in that direction.
It's okay not to know.
It's okay to be honest that we haven't found the answer, and not pretend that we found the answer must have been a miracle. We haven't.
"You put everyone who believes that life was created into the same basket"
--- No, I talk to people who believe that in many different ways. Some that deny vast fields of science to maintain their fundamentalist religious beliefs, young Earth creationists, even some that are flat Earthers.
And then, I meet believers who are totally reasonable, well educated, even scientists. There's a broad spectrum and I know it.
Pay attention to your surroundings harder and stop depending so much on stereotyping. All you see and hear is what you expect.
"Neither side can put a finger on it, so lets agree on that and move on - for now."
--- I wont stand idly by while silly claims go unaddressed, and I CAN put my finger on the error you're making, and that Terence McKenna was making there.
He didn't look into the science carefully enough.
He didn't bother to find out there are many naturalistic (no miracles) pre-big bang models.
He didn't even bother to find out that 'from nothing' is not the only such model.
He's never heard of eternal multiverse models of any variety, but I'm sure you have. Why didn't you think of them?
Why think everything must have come from nothing (by miracle or otherwise) if God doesn't exist?
That's not what the scientists are saying.
GreenLogician
Well-Known Member
I don't believe there had to have been a miracle beyond the limits of what we know about the big bang.
I don't believe everything had to come from nothing.
I don't believe humans will eventually figure out all the currently remaining mysteries in nature.
Don't put words in my mouth.
The science and scientists don't say that either.
I don't believe everything had to come from nothing.
I don't believe humans will eventually figure out all the currently remaining mysteries in nature.
Don't put words in my mouth.
The science and scientists don't say that either.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Here's the problem. I discuss in a figurative way, you do not seem to.
I didn't put words into your mouth, why would I do that? Makes no sense and is not appealing to me.
You (science) cannot describe pre big bang.
Others (creationists?) cannot describe pre big bang.
Using terms like "miracle" does not necessarily imply its dictionary definition.
This is the crux of my posts.
Best of luck. @GreenLogician
I didn't put words into your mouth, why would I do that? Makes no sense and is not appealing to me.
You (science) cannot describe pre big bang.
Others (creationists?) cannot describe pre big bang.
Using terms like "miracle" does not necessarily imply its dictionary definition.
This is the crux of my posts.
Best of luck. @GreenLogician
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GreenLogician
Well-Known Member
"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
^ This is putting words in my mouth.
Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.
i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'
You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.
^ This is putting words in my mouth.
Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.
i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'
You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
"You"
Everything you wrote after that is putting words in my mouth, actions to my thoughts, and etc.
I'll give an example so you can see it:
"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
^ This is putting words in my mouth.
Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.
i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'
You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.
We've arrived now at that hypocritical stage, your judgement is not sound and is full of assumptions. Bad scientist, bad!
Exit, stage left. @GreenLogician
Everything you wrote after that is putting words in my mouth, actions to my thoughts, and etc.
I'll give an example so you can see it:
"You quantify the miracle by saying that science will eventually find the answer"
^ This is putting words in my mouth.
Why would you do that? I suspect it's something I see all the time in religious people.
People who know they believe things for bad reasons, will tell themselves everyone else does too.
It puts you at ease, so you semi-consciously straw man everyone to take an equally irrational, overconfident position... just like yours.
i.e., 'I may believe in fairies for no reason, but everyone else asserts absolute certainty that fairies are impossible... for no reason! So I'm not the only only with irrational beliefs, I'll feel okay to keep believing in fairies for no reason.'
You'd do that to tell yourself everyone else is just as unreasonable as you. To feel better about realizing your beliefs are unreasonable.
To avoid the rational path upon such a realization; abandoning those beliefs which you are very attached to and may even depend on, emotionally, socially, and psychologically.
We've arrived now at that hypocritical stage, your judgement is not sound and is full of assumptions. Bad scientist, bad!
Exit, stage left. @GreenLogician
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GreenLogician
Well-Known Member
Wrong wrong wrong!
You asserted falsehoods about science and about me.
I was ASKED why you might do something, and explicitly said what I proposed was merely a suspected explanation - not an asserted or accepted truth.
Pay closer attention.
You are still giving no defense to your claims about science, merely trying to insist that everyone who calls you out on your bullshit allegedly claims bullshit too, and is just as bad.
Is the 'you are being a hypocrite' card your only move? Because I'd really like you to support your claims instead of try to sidestep criticism with a lame discussion-stopping strategy; straw men and the tu quoque fallacy.
You asserted falsehoods about science and about me.
I was ASKED why you might do something, and explicitly said what I proposed was merely a suspected explanation - not an asserted or accepted truth.
Pay closer attention.
You are still giving no defense to your claims about science, merely trying to insist that everyone who calls you out on your bullshit allegedly claims bullshit too, and is just as bad.
Is the 'you are being a hypocrite' card your only move? Because I'd really like you to support your claims instead of try to sidestep criticism with a lame discussion-stopping strategy; straw men and the tu quoque fallacy.
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Believe in God and all that bollocks?
Do I F*CK!!!
Good luck to those who do, you can believe what you like, but I can too!
I believe all forms of religion were created for mass mind control, needed more before television came out I'll add. Time has gone on, that idea is now back firing big time and left the world in a mess after countless wars for centuries and centuries!
Religion is one of the worlds biggest problems!
Good stuff from Jimmy car...
Even better stuff from George Carlin...
I also don't believe in Father Christmas.
Please I hope you religious people don't take offense to this. I don't mind if you want to believe in god or want to believe in make belief, I ask you not to mind what I believe! If possible...?
Do I F*CK!!!
Good luck to those who do, you can believe what you like, but I can too!
I believe all forms of religion were created for mass mind control, needed more before television came out I'll add. Time has gone on, that idea is now back firing big time and left the world in a mess after countless wars for centuries and centuries!
Religion is one of the worlds biggest problems!
Good stuff from Jimmy car...
Even better stuff from George Carlin...
I also don't believe in Father Christmas.
Please I hope you religious people don't take offense to this. I don't mind if you want to believe in god or want to believe in make belief, I ask you not to mind what I believe! If possible...?
claypipe69
Well-Known Member
I believe that god was created by Big Brother to control the masses. by creating god & the devil they can dam you if you dont do what big brother wants you to do, simple you can go to Hell for not behaving. In the manner big brother wants. All Big Brother is, all man made religions. truth is mother nature is the leader of all thing in my universe anyway 
Shame god didn't tell the Catholic priests that they can't rape/abuse children! Because everything can be forgiven in the 'eyes of the good lord' Catholic priests have a field day with the kids!
Even if I get kicked off the forum because of this thread, zero f*cks given!
Anybody that leaves their children in the hands of religious schools etc GOD SPEED! If they get abused it'll be your own fault!
Even if I get kicked off the forum because of this thread, zero f*cks given!
Anybody that leaves their children in the hands of religious schools etc GOD SPEED! If they get abused it'll be your own fault!
iHearAll
Well-Known Member
the true God wanted them raped apparently. God doesnt have to be anyone's friend. you're confusing good and god.
BTw When I was 6 years old I went to a methodist boarding school. Got raped, hypnotised, religious ritual abuse, tortured, terrorised, taken out my bed in the night and drugged! By a religious fanatic! The school is covering it up, they too are part of the peado ring!
Let me tell you 1st hand, get your kids away from church, religious school etc, scout groups run by religious people too.
Let me tell you 1st hand, get your kids away from church, religious school etc, scout groups run by religious people too.