Do We Dare Discuss 911 With Poll
- Thread starter canuckgrow
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doc111
Well-Known Member
Have you ever heard the old saying "They don't make 'em like they used to"? I'm not an architect but I am a retired firefighter with 15 years of service. I am also a building collapse technician. I spent months studying building codes, structural engineering, architechture. In order to understand the mechanism of collapse, one must first have a working knowledge of building design and construction. That said, there are so many variables in ANY building collapse, even controlled demos, that it's impossible to say that a building should behave this way or that when collapsing. A twin engine prop plane flew into the empire state building in 1945. Already, there was confusion right off the bat as to what kind of plane was flown into it. There is a HUGE difference between a b-25 and a b-52, in both size and speed! Just a few miles per hour increase in speed or a few kilograms increase in mass increases the potential energy by a large factor. Accidents are bizarre things. Weird shit almost always happens in a severe crash. We'll talk about automobile crashes for a moment since they are something most of us can relate to. I went on a run once involving a sports car that was travelling at a high rate of speed. The car lost control and flipped several times. The passenger of the vehicle was ejected and survived with only minor injuries. The driver was killed instantly. The car came to a rest upsidedown with the driver still in his seat. He still had a lit black and mild in his mouth! How the fuck does that happen in an accident that was so violent? How does the guy who should've been hurt the worst actually walk away while his partner was killed instantly but still strapped in? I'll tell you how. Variables! A lot happens in a very short time during a crash. Much of what happens is completely unpredictable while other aspects can be predicted with great ease. We know that the body of the vehicle will probably sustain some damage, glass will probably be broken, but beyond that it's anybody's guess. People always point to the passport that was found without even a folded page. You see, I don't find it all that weird given all the weird shit I've seen in accidents over 2 decades in the fire service. That is exactly the type of unpredictable shit that almost always happens in any severe crash, airplane crashes are no different, they are just bigger vehicles that travel much faster. The physics is exactly the same.
The second point I wanted to make was the fact that chaos during any emergency causes false reports. I remember the reports the morning of 9/11 of the secondary explosions, car bombs, all kinds of shit was being reported. Most of it turned out to be inaccurate. This ALWAYS happens during any major incident. Whenever people are stressed like that they will always hear things and see things. Some people just want to feel important so when a TV reporter shoves a camera in their face and says "Tell us what you saw" they immediately turn into fucking Mark Twain! Again, I'm not saying some of those reports weren't true. They may have been. My personal belief is that most of the official report is accurate. Until I see some actual evidence to the contrary, and not just some conspiracy blog, I'll go with the official report.
So if there are so many variables to a building collapse, then please explain how three of them all went down in the exact same manner? And one of them wasn't hit by a plane. Please explain this Doc. Also since you have so much experience with large skyscraper collapses could you also tell me how many large steel skyscrapers have actually collapsed besides on 911? How many total since the dawn of time? I will just wait patiently while you look that up, im sure your textbooks have hundreds of examples of skyscrapers just imploding and collapsing at random times correct? I mean you studied it and all.
canuckgrow
Well-Known Member
Have you ever heard the old saying "They don't make 'em like they used to"? I'm not an architect but I am a retired firefighter with 15 years of service. I am also a building collapse technician. I spent months studying building codes, structural engineering, architechture. In order to understand the mechanism of collapse, one must first have a working knowledge of building design and construction. That said, there are so many variables in ANY building collapse, even controlled demos, that it's impossible to say that a building should behave this way or that when collapsing. A twin engine prop plane flew into the empire state building in 1945. Already, there was confusion right off the bat as to what kind of plane was flown into it. There is a HUGE difference between a b-25 and a b-52, in both size and speed! Just a few miles per hour increase in speed or a few kilograms increase in mass increases the potential energy by a large factor. Accidents are bizarre things. Weird shit almost always happens in a severe crash. We'll talk about automobile crashes for a moment since they are something most of us can relate to. I went on a run once involving a sports car that was travelling at a high rate of speed. The car lost control and flipped several times. The passenger of the vehicle was ejected and survived with only minor injuries. The driver was killed instantly. The car came to a rest upsidedown with the driver still in his seat. He still had a lit black and mild in his mouth! How the fuck does that happen in an accident that was so violent? How does the guy who should've been hurt the worst actually walk away while his partner was killed instantly but still strapped in? I'll tell you how. Variables! A lot happens in a very short time during a crash. Much of what happens is completely unpredictable while other aspects can be predicted with great ease. We know that the body of the vehicle will probably sustain some damage, glass will probably be broken, but beyond that it's anybody's guess. People always point to the passport that was found without even a folded page. You see, I don't find it all that weird given all the weird shit I've seen in accidents over 2 decades in the fire service. That is exactly the type of unpredictable shit that almost always happens in any severe crash, airplane crashes are no different, they are just bigger vehicles that travel much faster. The physics is exactly the same.
The second point I wanted to make was the fact that chaos during any emergency causes false reports. I remember the reports the morning of 9/11 of the secondary explosions, car bombs, all kinds of shit was being reported. Most of it turned out to be inaccurate. This ALWAYS happens during any major incident. Whenever people are stressed like that they will always hear things and see things. Some people just want to feel important so when a TV reporter shoves a camera in their face and says "Tell us what you saw" they immediately turn into fucking Mark Twain! Again, I'm not saying some of those reports weren't true. They may have been. My personal belief is that most of the official report is accurate. Until I see some actual evidence to the contrary, and not just some conspiracy blog, I'll go with the official report.
Excellent post doc....and a lot of what you say makes sense. So thank you for that. Now I have more knowledge and I'm still suspicious? However using the old "they don't build them like they used too" line can't really wash can it? Since the codes were more stringent by default the buildings would have been stronger no? Again I don't know because I haven't studied code...but if you can verify that the building codes used in the World Trade centre were in fact less stringent than those that went into the Empire State Building then you have an argument along those lines.......until then we have to assume that the codes were in fact more stringent.....Which my research said they were and just in time for the building of the world Trade Centers.
I think the heart of the problem and the reason there is still so much opposition to anything other than the official story is people just don't want to believe that an elected democratic government could do do something like this to its own people.....But put yourself in the shoes of the people that the conspiracy theories are targeting.....the benefits received or the goals realized are on a huge scale encompassing trillions of dollars in transactions not just today but 20---30 years from now. These people send human beings to die everyday it is part of there very existence to do so. When you consider that it really isn't that whacky to think this to be something that was indeed a "set up" The bush's, The cheney's, The rumsfelds, the powells all of which didn't even bat an eye over the course of this whole mess and how many people have died now as a direct result of the wars following the 9/11 tradgedy???? 3500 from the attacks themselves,,,,,,, a million and counting in Iraq and somewhere around 50,000 in afghannyistan.......That is an awful lot of death.but hey when you deal in death 3500 of your own isn't really that horrible.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
you've reached the true heart of the matter and don't even realize it. almost without exception, all those who are promoting these conspiracy theories are targeting a group of people who have one thing in common. they can be considered to be on the enemies list of the conspiracy theorists themselves. in the political annals, these people are nothing special. included on the list might as well be the obamas, the pelosis, the reeds and the kennedys. you might feel like getting cute and just declaring that the american political system produces these monsters, but all of these are personalities that are echoed across the globe. that list might as well include the harpers, the camerons, the sarkozys, the chavezs, the merkels, the pineras..... well, you get the idea. also included should probably be the thousands upon thousands behind the scenes who's input shapes the destiny of their nations. instead, you single out those you most disagree with and claim them to be inhuman monsters, capable of atrocities on a massive scale for the sake of a buck. you and your ilk have managed to convince yourselves that these men actually enjoy sending children off to die in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere and that they'd even orchestrate some horrendous scenario to do just that.
it is one of life's cruelest ironies that the sins we most abhor in others are those of which we ourselves are guilty. our enemies are merely perverted mirrors of what we detest about ourselves. what twisted souls y'all must have, to see yourselves as capable of such atrocities. i'm certainly no angel, but i'm pretty sure that my limit on murder for profit is in the single digits, maybe the low teens if the stakes are really high. every once in a while there comes along the sort of sociopath that you believe our last administration to have been filled with. what a coincidence that not only did a huge group of them band together for this conspiracy, but that they just happen to purport to be representatives of an ideology you so detest.
doc111
Well-Known Member
lol! I never said "I have so much experience with skyscraper collapses". Nobody does. This is the first time in the short history of skyscrapers that one has ever collapsed. Take a look at this link and if it doesn't answer all your questions I'll do my best.
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
doc111
Well-Known Member
More stringent building codes does not necessarily equal stronger buildings. The strength of the buildings has little to do with it, it's the amount of energy in each of the 3 crashes we are talking about (the Empire state building one and the 2 WTC planes). The WTC may have in fact been a little bit stronger but the force exerted in the crashes was much greater.
I love that sight, it shows how little thinking the debunkers think we are capable of. Sure WTC tower #1 peeled over and struck WTC#7, but didn't really do much to the building that was between them(WTC#6), nope didn't hurt that building, but caused another building on a different city block hundreds of feet away to catch fire and then begin deconstructing itself from the top down. Sure it suffered some MINOR damage and had a few easily contained fires ( Why was the sprinkler system turned off, why weren't the fire fighters who proclaimed it was an easily controlled fire allowed to fight it) but for some reason it starts crumbling from the penthouse down, has ZERO resistance to its fall and also contained all the paperwork of secret activities of the CIA, FBI and also amazingly enough it contained paperwork that would have shown where some of the pentagon's missing 2.3 trillion dollar loot went. Lets also not forget about the tons of gold that was stored in a basement vault that ended up missing. Sure you go ahead and believe that Skyscrapers fall over regularly, but its only happened 3 times in the history of the world and amazingly enough it all happened on the same day and in the same place. " The massive load of 40 stories" Makes me laugh, people don't realize that the building is designed to hold up 10 times more weight than it actually supports. Remember that these building get their strength from STEEL, none of the cement or brick is anything but a covering and a facade.I don't know if you realize this, but steel is many times stronger than cement or brick, not just a little bit stronger but MAGNITUDES stronger. Your debunking site did nothing to answer any of my questions, it assumes steel can become as soft as baby shit in a mere split second and all at the same time.lol! I never said "I have so much experience with skyscraper collapses". Nobody does. This is the first time in the short history of skyscrapers that one has ever collapsed. Take a look at this link and if it doesn't answer all your questions I'll do my best.
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
Please tell me how a fire 30 floors below can cause the penthouse to crumble to dust as seen here. Your website even says that it can only come up with a crude and implausible theory on how it was possible.
[video=youtube;OUkvnfV606w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUkvnfV606w[/video]
Oh and BTW Doc, thanks for not answering a single question from your own perspective and with the help of your skyscraper collapse classes you took, shows you haven't got much of a reason to believe what you do. Perhaps I should just debunk your debunking with more debunking of the supposed debunked. http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/
you all argue and post as if you're about to win some sort of argument.
and then you mock my life.
hella funny.
and it wasn't an "observation", it was a question. aren't you the bright one.
Yeah, I don't know if you realize how debate works so I'm going to Google it for you so you can figure out the purpose of a political section on a forum.
DEBATE:
v.intr.
- To consider something; deliberate.
- To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
- To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See synonyms at discuss.
- Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.
Now you know that a Debate is an argument, so if it seems like all anyone does in the politics section is ARGUE, then you just figured out the secret to having a politics section in the first place. Or would you rather we do all our political arguing over at the new growers section? Perhaps in the toke and talk? Simply delete the Politics section and it will be exactly that.
Isn't this about the time you usually Present some youtube video of a metal band that plays a mean guitar riff that you try to emulate on your Axe? You know, a video that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Its not that I dislike you FDD, I do, but the reason why is because you can't ever articulate what your opinion is, because in your view you have no opinions on anything and therefore it is your view that no one else should have any feelings or views either. Your lack of concern is probably what bothers me the most, your "Better than anyone Else" view. If the subject were growing MJ in your back yard you would have plenty to say, but since you cannot play with the big kids in the Politics sandbox you retreat and hide behind your growing fame, or your moderator status. Or you simply post some YouTube rock video that means nothing to anyone but you. Just why do you post those videos anyway? Is it because a picture is worth a thousand words? Perhaps that is the reason anyone posts youtube vids, because to write it out would take pages and pages and no one would read it.
BTW, No, I don't get what your getting at, your inabilty to express yourself leaves you alienated and alone on a lake. Perhaps a Nice Video of some Motorhead would help?
BTW, No, I don't get what your getting at, your inabilty to express yourself leaves you alienated and alone on a lake. Perhaps a Nice Video of some Motorhead would help?
i tend to only concern myself with things that i actually plan on doing something about.
are you hurting my feelings yet? lol
most people here get my videos. i'm sorry you can't see that deep into things.
nope, i felt nothing.
well, maybe a little pity. lol
sorry to interrupt your debate on who's got the better 911 video. i realize they are so much more informative then a motorhead video. i'll let you get back to your "grown up" argument now.
have a great day, arguing on the internet. i wish i could but i have real things to do instead.
C'Mon dude, you are on this forum more than anyone else ever. You don't have "Real" things to do. I mean look, you have been here a few months longer than I but you have 10 times as many posts. I mean its great and all to be a greenthumb backyard pot grower like yourself, but really, when you have that many posts it usually speaks to ego, not to having "Real" things to do. Either that or very snide one sentence posts over and over and over in an attempt to bring a voracious, detestable attitude from your adversary that can be considered offensive for the application of the magic almighty smiting stick of the moderator!!
And really? Didn't i just tell you that your apathy is what irks me the most? The fact that you just don't care? 9/11? Pffft who cares? I didn't know any of those people. Getting sexually molested by TSA for wanting to fly to Jersey to see Grandma for Christmas? Pfft I don't fly, why should I care? None of those things directly affect me, why should I give a fuck if 24 million people don;'t have a job? Im on Disability. I am taken care of.
And really? Didn't i just tell you that your apathy is what irks me the most? The fact that you just don't care? 9/11? Pffft who cares? I didn't know any of those people. Getting sexually molested by TSA for wanting to fly to Jersey to see Grandma for Christmas? Pfft I don't fly, why should I care? None of those things directly affect me, why should I give a fuck if 24 million people don;'t have a job? Im on Disability. I am taken care of.
really, i don't make marbles and ride a seadoo? i'm actually working on filling an order of spoons for my local pipe shop. i'll be on live in a few if you want to come watch.
i thought you were here trying to prove you are right about your 911 theory. why are you so concerned with me and what i do? seems you just like to argue.