Do the workers get a voice

medicineman

New Member
Sluggish growth and increased financial instability
Global economic growth is anemic. The United States and the European Union are both expected to grow less than 3.0% in 2003, and Japan’s projected growth is only 1.1% (IMF 2002). Considering that productivity growth remains strong in all industrialized economies, these growth rates are too low to measurably lower unemployment.
The reason for this lackluster economic growth is too much global capacity. Faced with too few customers, firms increase profits by holding down wages and benefits, outsourcing work, and relocating to countries with weak worker protections and low labor costs. Often firms may even forego profits in the short-run, just to keep their existing capacities in use (e.g., by giving generous discounts or offering low cost financing). Ultimately prices begin falling (as has been the case in Japan for most of the last decade) and consumers and businesses become reluctant to shop or to invest as debt burdens grow and profit opportunities vanish.
The lack of customers is at least in part a result of national policies that often weaken worker rights. In Europe, the European Central Bank has kept interest rates high to the detriment of growth, while simultaneously pushing publicly for the reduction in labor protections. In Japan, savings rates remained high as households faced increasing uncertainty with the end of lifetime employment contracts. In the face of fewer safeguards for workers, rising unemployment dampened consumption, as did deflation. And in the United States, workers—facing a recession exacerbated by growing trade deficits—saw essentially no gains in employment and wages over the past 18 months. To compensate for this poor wage growth, households increased their borrowing. Now burdened with growing debt, households ultimately have curtailed consumption to avoid bankruptcy.
The lack of demand is not limited to industrialized economies. The frequency and severity of financial crises in emerging economies grew with increased liberalization (Weller 2001). Many emerging economies have implemented a mix of deflationary macro policies, often to appease lenders such as the World Bank and IMF, in the wake of financial crises. These policies consist of higher interest rates, the elimination of budget deficits, and structural changes (especially the deregulation of many markets, including labor). Increased labor market flexibility tends to lower labor income, leading to less consumption. In turn, this slowed consumption often exacerbates the problems created by the financial and economic crises, keeping economies from growing faster for lengthy periods of time.
Labor standards and economic growth
The bulk of the economic research on worker rights shows that these labor standards are associated with significant increases in economic growth in the nations that have implemented and enforced them. In particular, child labor, forced labor, labor market discrimination, and legislation barring unionization or collective bargaining all inhibit productivity growth.
In theory, child labor and forced labor increase the supply of cheap or free labor within a country, driving down wages for everybody. Easy access to cheap labor removes incentive for firms to lower their costs by developing or adopting new technologies. Consequently, productivity growth is slowed. Furthermore, the fact that children are working in low-wage jobs instead of attending school will impede the growth of a nation’s stock of human capital in the future, potentially inhibiting long-term productivity growth as well (Maskus 1997).
Economic theory also suggests that labor market discrimination may impede effective matching in the labor market between employers and workers. Economies are much more productive when jobs are allocated on the basis of skills and ability instead of ethnicity, gender, or caste (Acemoglu and Shimer 1999).
From a theoretical perspective, the right to form labor unions and bargain collectively has the greatest potential impact on economic growth. Unions give workers a direct voice to management, making it more likely that conflicts will be resolved through discussion rather than through employee separations (i.e., firing or quits). Unionization reduces turnover, making it more likely that employees will develop valuable job-specific skills and more likely that employers will invest in long-term training, both of which contribute to productivity growth.
The evidence shows that these growth-enhancing effects of worker rights are strong. Palley (1999) showed that, in the case of 15 developing countries, the adoption of CLS was positively related to higher rates of economic growth. Buchele and Christensen (2003; 2001) found that worker rights within the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) were positively associated with economic performance. A recent World Bank report (Aidt and Tzannatos 2003) showed that most studies on the issue find that coordinated collective bargaining was associated with improved macroeconomic performance in the 1970s and 1980s (evidence for the 1990s was mixed).http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib192 - 26k
 

ViRedd

New Member
Med ...

You need to check you sources a little more carefully:

"Sluggish growth and increased financial instability
Global economic growth is anemic. The United States and the European Union are both expected to grow less than 3.0% in 2003"

The above was a total inaccuracy. Not suprising considering that Robert Reich is one of the directors of your source. When Reich came up with the above figures, he didn't take Bush's tax cuts into consideration. Check this site out.

U.S. economy posts strongest growth in nearly 20 years - Oct. 30, 2003
 

medicineman

New Member
Sluggish Economy
A state in the economy in which the growth is slow, flat or declining. The term can refer to the economy as a whole or a component of the economy, such as weak housing starts.

Notes:
When the economy is in a sluggish state, it is generally harmful for a business since consumers and other businesses are less likely to purchase its products. A sluggish economy also has a negative effect on the labor market as businesses are less willing to hire more staff in times of weak economic growth.

Financial media often use the term "sluggish economy". For example, you will often see headlines like "Economy Sluggish due to Rising Oil Prices."
Duh!
 

medicineman

New Member
The point is ... what you are posting is either out of date, or inaccurate as hell.

Vi
Not. What I'm posting, precludes the false assertions by the Bush economists! I guess you might have lost touch with the real world much as Bush and his crowd have. In the real world, things are not as rosy as portrayed in the economic news shown on every TV station coast to coast. I keep telling you and you keep telling me to prove it. The proof is in the experience, the everyday lives of citizens, unlike yourself that lives in a utopian suburb, (I'm supposing that by your outlook on economics) Yes my friend, the wealthy are doing much better since Bush, and all the economic figures handed out are based on that premise. To prove this to you, I'd have to lead you by the hand and drag you down to where the "others" live, and I'm certain you wouldn't like that. If I could get the records of all middle class credit card debt, I'd show you in a heartbeat that alls not well in Bushville!
 

ViRedd

New Member
"If I could get the records of all middle class credit card debt, I'd show you in a heartbeat that alls not well in Bushville!"

I have to agree with you on the credit card debt ... I see it all the time in my business. But ... was it Bush who was standing at the counter when the man/woman threw the credit card on the counter to buy that last toy, trinket or impulse purchase? People are disasters when it comes to money managment. I have a friend who manages a large Chevrolet dealership in the next town over. He's is constantly telling me how people take equity lines out on their homes to buy $50,000 SUVs. Nutz!

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
"If I could get the records of all middle class credit card debt, I'd show you in a heartbeat that alls not well in Bushville!"

I have to agree with you on the credit card debt ... I see it all the time in my business. But ... was it Bush who was standing at the counter when the man/woman threw the credit card on the counter to buy that last toy, trinket or impulse purchase? People are disasters when it comes to money managment. I have a friend who manages a large Chevrolet dealership in the next town over. He's is constantly telling me how people take equity lines out on their homes to buy $50,000 SUVs. Nutz!

Vi
The reason the credit card thing is so out of whack is the people do not have the spending power they were used to before Bush and are trying to maintain their lifestyle, so they have to put it on the card, the national savings per capita is at an all time low for the last 60 years, only the wealthy have increased their savings accounts. Go Figure!
 

medicineman

New Member
You've probably heard that the American savings rate for 2005 was negative 0.5 percent, the lowest since the Great Depression. The annual savings rate has been negative only twice -- in 1932 and 1933, during the Great Depression.

But Americans may be saving even less than the government reports. Consider the way the Commerce Department's Bureau of Economic Analysis calculates the savings rate: It takes a household's after-tax income (wages, salaries, interest income, rental income, dividends, social security, unemployment benefits, etc.) and subtracts spending on consumer goods and services (food, clothing, entertainment, etc). Whatever's left over is savings. But the government doesn't figure housing expenses into the spending-saving calculation since it views housing as an investment.

That's problematic, according to Paul Kasriel, director of economic research at Northern Trust in Chicago. "I see a lot of people buying houses that seem to have a very large consumption element to them -- like granite kitchen countertops and the huge increase in square footage per person."

Uncovering Higher Spending

So Kasriel does his own calculation of the savings rate. He subtracts not only outlays on goods and services, but also spending on a line item called "residential investment." It represents the value-added in housing -- the kitchen renovation, the family-room addition. (It also includes commissions paid to real estate brokers.)

According to Kasriel's calculation, last year Americans spent approximately $472 billion more than they earned after taxes -- a negative savings rate of 5.2 percent. That spending is double the previous year -- and a record high.

Going back to 1929, Kasriel found just a dozen years in which households spent more than they earned by his calculation. Two were during the Great Depression. Three were in the decade following World War II, when consumers unleashed pent-up savings accumulated during the war (when there was little available to consume). The other seven years of negative savings have occurred since 1999.

"What's amazing is that my generation, the rapidly aging Baby Boomers, are entering their prime saving years," Kasriel says. Most of the Boomers, representing nearly a quarter of the population, are in their peak earning years (42 to 60). Many are becoming empty nesters, so their expenses should be declining. They already own the durable goods one acquires in the early stages of adult life. "But however you slice or dice it, we aren't saving," Kasriel says.

Others economists disagree. They argue that retirees typically spend from their savings, which skews the savings rate lower. They point out that the government's calculation doesn't account for the rise in real estate values (and home equity). And while it captures things like 401(k)s and Individual Retirement Account contributions, the calculation doesn't include the capital gains on these accounts.

"If You Can't Afford It, You Can't Buy It!"

Whichever reality you believe, it's clear that Americans are highly leveraged. The ratio of debt to assets hit a near record 18.2 percent in the third quarter of 2005, the most recent data available from the Federal Reserve's Flow of Funds Database. This ratio, tracked since 1952, measures the amount of debt Americans have, relative to the market value of all their assets -- savings accounts, stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. In the early 1980s, the ratio was around 13 percent; in the early 1950s, 7 percent.

Meanwhile, the debt service ratio -- the percentage of after-tax household income that goes to cover required principal and interest payments on debt -- hit a record high of 13.75% in the third quarter of 2005, the most recent data available.


David Rosenberg, Merrill Lynch's North American chief economist, estimates that approximately $2.5 trillion dollars of adjustable-rate household debt will re-price in 2006. That works out to 23 percent of total household debt. At the same time, income growth is trending lower, Kasriel says. Put the two together, and you will end up with Americans paying an even bigger chunk of after-tax income to debt service.

By holding short-term interest rates below the inflation rate in recent years, the Fed offered juicy incentives to borrow and spend, and little to save. Low rates coincided with the advent of "creative" new mortgage instruments -- like the option ARM -- which in its simplest terms asks the borrower to send in whatever they feel like once a month, even if it barely makes a dent in the interest due (much less the principal).

The leveraged life has even become fodder for "Saturday Night Live," which recently mocked a "get out of debt" infomercial. A salesman appears in a couple's kitchen with his magical solution: "If you can't afford it, don't buy it!"

The befuddled couple responds: "I'm so confused. I don't have any money saved. Can I buy a boat?"

"No!" he booms. "If you can't afford it, you can't buy it!"

A Free-For-All That Ends Badly?

In the land of leveraged living, I'm a dinosaur. I dutifully follow the old-fashioned financial rules of the road: No revolving credit-card debt. Pay cash for your auto. Max out your annual retirement savings. Start socking money away for college when your kids are born. Put 20 percent down when you buy your home. Take out a low-interest, 30-year mortgage. Make an extra mortgage payment every year. (I know, I should probably put the extra payment in my retirement savings. It just feels good to cut years off your mortgage.)

There are a few of us savers left out there. We scratch our heads and wonder how you can buy stuff you can't pay for (or pay for twice on credit over time) and still enjoy it (see "Why It Pays to Live Within Your Means"). We're like the character in the "Princess and the Pea" fairy tale -- put the smallest credit-card bill or auto loan under a pile of mattresses, and we suffer sharp pains. We can't sleep.

Mostly, we can't help wondering if the lending and spending free-for-all of recent history will end badly -- for all of us. Imagine interest rates continuing to rise amid an employment downturn. The option ARM holders and other over-leveraged consumers put their homes on the market, or hand the keys to their lenders. The housing market experiences a sharp decline. Commercial banks, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac require a taxpayer bailout (a la the early 1990s) -- increasing either the current or future tax liability.

"A Marathon, Not a Sprint"

Maybe I'm paranoid. But I'm not alone. As one reader e-mailed me, "Whether we like it or not, our government has ultimate control over our financial future. In the coming years, the government will be grasping at any source of cash that they can get their hands on.... I think people sense this, consciously or subconsciously, and figure that they might as well spend now. I do worry that all my hard work and effort in being frugal will be confiscated by the government, which would make me feel foolish for not adopting a 'spend until you drop' attitude all along."

I hope the reader is wrong. Kasriel offers some consolation, suggesting savers will be the ones buying cheap foreclosures when the storm hits. "It's a marathon, not a sprint," he says, "and the people who are saving are going to be happier toward the end of the race than the ones who are spending and borrowing."
 

ViRedd

New Member
Want to increase the savings rate of Americans, Med? Honestly, do you? Well, all we have to do is to convert from a tax on income to a tax on consumption. That's it ... its that simple. Our tax system has turned Americans into non-savers, not the Bush administration. As an added bonus, we would vastly increase our economic liberty. And ... as economic liberty is increased, political liberty will be increased as well.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Want to increase the savings rate of Americans, Med? Honestly, do you? Well, all we have to do is to convert from a tax on income to a tax on consumption. That's it ... its that simple. Our tax system has turned Americans into non-savers, not the Bush administration. As an added bonus, we would vastly increase our economic liberty. And ... as economic liberty is increased, political liberty will be increased as well.

Vi
That is strictly an opinion. What the Bush tax cuts did was to give more money to the wealthiest 10%, get over it, you'll never see the repeal of income tax in your lifetime. The reason there are no savers is the economy. spin it anyway you want, but it's that simple. Average income people pay more for everything and make no more than 5-10 years ago, health care, college, housing, transportation, etc. all more than 10 years ago while real wages have actually gone down! Does your consumtion tax include housing, would it turn people into non-spenders, how would that affect the economy?
 

ViRedd

New Member
"Does your consumtion tax include housing, would it turn people into non-spenders, how would that affect the economy?"

Hmmm ... by housing, do you mean a federal sales tax on a house when you buy it? If so, I don't believe there would be a federal tax when you buy a house, food, clothing or medicine. Not on the essensials, Med.

People would still spend money. A wealthy person would buy a Mercedes, for example, and a person of more modest means would by a Ugo.

One of the major benefits would be that the tax would be competely up front and not hidden. For example, a loaf of bread has something like 127 hidden taxes in it by the time it reaches the consumer.

Just one tax is all that's necessary, Med. Look how simple it would be: When you pump gas into your car, you are paying local, state and federal sales taxes, right? Once the tank is full, you replace the nozzle and drive off. No forms to fill out, no worries about audits, no fines, no levies, no confiscation of propety either.

A consumption (excise) tax is the tax of free men. A tax on income (labor) is the tax of slaves.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
a person of more modest means would by a Ugo. I believe they were called Yugos and only a person in dire straights would ever have bought one of those, I think they're out of business in the good old USA, and not a moment too soon. Since I pretty much own everything I'll probably ever need for the rest of my life, (maybe the odd appliance or two), I'd vote for that, even though I pay no income tax. My wife on the other hand would benefit from that since she just bought a new car and will be good for at least ten years. But I think it should be progressive, If you buy a million dollar yacht you pay 100% tax, If you buy a 35,000 car you pay 20%, I could see this as beneficial. I just don't see it as being sufficient to run the government, We'd have to lay off 95% of govt and couldn't afford a standing army or be able to wage wars, wait, thats good, sign me up. LOL.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, first of all, a consumption tax would be progressive in most cases. For example if a person buys a $250,000 Ferrari, and the federal tax is 26%, he would pay $65,000 in federal tax. If another person bought a new Ford sedan for $22,000, then that person would pay $5720. in federal tax. Your suggesstion of charging the purchaser a 100% tax just because he/she buys a more expensive car is nothing more then an envy tax. You ARE for equality under the law, aren't you?

The tax WOULD be sufficient to run the government, Med. Just sock it to us one time, with one up-front tax where it can be seen by all. If Americans deem the tax to be way too onerous, then perhaps we have way too much government.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
The tax WOULD be sufficient to run the government, Med. How can you be sure, what if the rich stopped buying because they had plenty and didn't like the tax? There is no regulation here. People can't stop earning, but a lot of rich people could sure stop spending for a while!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Why would they stop spending? I mean, what's the point of making money if not to spend it and/or invest it? I agree that people would consider the tax before they bought ... and that's one of the major points; to get people to at least CONSIDER the tax. Now then, if spending really did slow down as you suggest, all government has to do is just raise the tax some more. Well, that's what the liberals would suggest. In reality, to increase governemnt revenues, the tax should be lowered to encourage more spending. Hmmm ... where have we heard that debate before? *lol*

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
this is ridiculous, how low can you go. Zero tax is your goal. A country or society can not operate without revenue, so you're proposing Anarchy. I hope you've got lots of guns and a bullet proof car and a few bodyguards, because the masses are coming for your money..... when the government stops operating for lack of funds, It won't be the poor people that will be stressed out, they already know what it's like, but the rich bastards will have no police protection, it's bye-bye Vi!
 

ViRedd

New Member
OK, now point out where I've ever said, in any of my posts, that I want a zero tax, or where I'm proposing anarchy. Search as you might ... you will never find it.

And by the way ... police, firemen, mayors and housing inspectors are all funded at the local level.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
OK, now point out where I've ever said, in any of my posts, that I want a zero tax, or where I'm proposing anarchy. Search as you might ... you will never find it.

And by the way ... police, firemen, mayors and housing inspectors are all funded at the local level.

Vi
still by taxation! So just lay it out for me, how will your tax plan liberate all of us from poverty and make it possible for everyone to make a good living, provide for the "general welfare", "insure domestic tranquility", And refurbish the decaying infrastructure?
 

ViRedd

New Member
still by taxation! So just lay it out for me, how will your tax plan liberate all of us from poverty and make it possible for everyone to make a good living, provide for the "general welfare", "insure domestic tranquility", And refurbish the decaying infrastructure?
My tax plan WON'T do any of that Med ... and "Tax Plans" should NEVER be intended for such use. You want to create Eden from money taken from "A" by giving it to "B." The only society that would create is one where everyone is subserviant to the state. Your plan certainly wouldn't "Insure domestic tranquility." Your plan would do nothing but pit one class against another. No thanks!

Vi

PS: And there you go again with the PROVIDE for the general welfare thingie. Sheesh!
 
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