Diminishing size with more tops?

I put this in the indoor section instead of the general section because I think growing outdoors might effect the outcome.

I was really hoping to get some huge buds this time but it's becoming quickly obvious that this is not going to be the case. The grow hasn't been perfect but it also hasn't gone bad at all so I'm hoping that is less of a factor.

Is there a point at which the number of tops you have negatively affects the potential size of your individual buds?

I think the question has so many variables that it's hard to have a single yes or no answer. The size of your roots is going to have an affect on the outcome as is environmental factors and genetics; who knows what else.

Let's say you have 5 healthy plants each in a 4 gallon hydro setup full of white hairy roots with all variables being equal besides the number of tops. One plant has 10, one has 20, one has 30 and the last has 40. Would each plant with fewer tops have larger buds then the larger one before it? Would maybe the one with 10 and 20 have the same size and then see a drop off. Or should each plant have the same size buds at the end of the day?

I was reading about apple trees and they decrease or increase the number of fruit in order to affect the size of the fruit.

Basically yes, the more tops the smaller the colas will be.

Yep. For example if you scrog one plant in a big space and fill it you will have lots and lots of top but they will be small. If you fill the same space with 4 plants and grow same method then the tops will be more medium.
If you grow a single cola plant then you can get those 2ltr pop bottle size colas.

There's more to it than that, co2, light levels, spectrum and strain all play a part, but as a general rule its true, the more you divide the plant the smaller the tops will be.

Root mass will play a large role. I’ve seen some trees with many many tops still make some huge colas

I've believed the same thing but on another forum a number of experienced and respected growers argued that it was bullshit. Even though they all had years and maybe decades of growing on me I had and still have a hard time believing it.

I also believe roots probably play a huge role in this and is why I specified 5 gallon hydro because the root size is controlled.

Thanks guys!

So next grow if I wanted to concentrate on size of buds rather then quantity of buds how many tops should I keep each plant under? This time I have at least 30 tops per plant times 8 plants makes 240 tops, holly shit I just thought about it. Hopefully they are as dense as they will be many!

shawnery said:

I've believed the same thing but on another forum a number of experienced and respected growers argued that it was bullshit. Even though they all had years and maybe decades of growing on me I had and still have a hard time believing it.

I also believe roots probably play a huge role in this and is why I specified 5 gallon hydro because the root size is controlled.

Thanks guys!

So next grow if I wanted to concentrate on size of buds rather then quantity of buds how many tops should I keep each plant under? This time I have at least 30 tops per plant times 8 plants makes 240 tops, holly shit I just thought about it. Hopefully they are as dense as they will be many!

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Shawnery - I saw this YouTube video several months ago. One Blackberry Cream #5 SCROG'd in a 3 x 3 tent grown in a 7 gallon pail. The colas look plentiful and the buds look chubby, frosty and just plain "delish" -
At one point, there was a final dried / cured weight video too but wasn't able to find it. I believe the final cured weight for this one lady came in around the 530 gram mark. You can scrog em and they'll still produce for you as long as you have the basics covered with good lighting, substrate, nutes ...

I was going to SCROG my one surviving clone ( ... damn that little pooch who absconded with the other one ... ) over my 2 x 4 grow area based on the results in this video.

All about the veg my friends.

More roots=more food capability
more nodes=more buds.

coreywebster said:

Yep. For example if you scrog one plant in a big space and fill it you will have lots and lots of top but they will be small. If you fill the same space with 4 plants and grow same method then the tops will be more medium.
If you grow a single cola plant then you can get those 2ltr pop bottle size colas.

There's more to it than that, co2, light levels, spectrum and strain all play a part, but as a general rule its true, the more you divide the plant the smaller the tops will be.

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The reason for this in scrog is because the bud sites do not grow into each other as much to form colas. That is the whole purpose of scrogging. Let each bud site get more light.

Do NOT confuse bud sites (or flowers) with colas (buds/flowers that have grown into each other).

Given perfectly ideal conditions, the ONLY thing that limits the potential for bud size is DNA.

Major Blazer said:

Root mass will play a large role. I’ve seen some trees with many many tops still make some huge colas

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I believe to that root mass has a lot to do with it along with genetics Also I leave the plants 2weeks after last topping before I flip but the most colas that I ever had was 20 but their all pop can size when I don’t screw anything up that is

Gquebed said:

The reason for this in scrog is because the bud sites do not grow into each other as much to form colas. That is the whole purpose of scrogging. Let each bud site get more light.

Do NOT confuse bud sites (or flowers) with colas (buds/flowers that have grown into each other).

Given perfectly ideal conditions, the ONLY thing that limits the potential for bud size is DNA.

Click to expand...

I get what your saying about colas vs single buds.
All them bud sites add up to a huge cola if internodes are tightly stacked enough. If vegged right a really chunkier cola can be achieved. Always thought huge colas were overrated though.
But that doesn't change the fact that the more a plant is divided the smaller those buds are. So 4 plants in a 1m screen will have bigger buds than 1 plant in same size screen.

I top 3 times leaving 8 main branches. I find topping more requires more veg time and more light to get a load of good sized buds.

this is a fools gold.. smelled like some sour fruity skunk.. every time i popped a seed of her i didn't clone but she always came out close to the same... popped 4 diff seeds all fire! and she finished in 7 weeks this was day 50 at chop! bigger roots = bigger fruits if you give the plant enough light and it has enough roots you will get bigger buds...

promedz said:

this is a fools gold.. smelled like some sour fruity skunk.. every time i popped a seed of her i didn't clone but she always came out close to the same... popped 4 diff seeds all fire! and she finished in 7 weeks this was day 50 at chop! bigger roots = bigger fruits if you give the plant enough light and it has enough roots you will get bigger buds... View attachment 4278852 View attachment 4278853 View attachment 4278854

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Very nice

Palmerrdgrower said:

Very nice

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thanks here is another one, her roots before transplant here is a holy grail pheno 1 super tall took support down to cut and she toppled the above pick is a shorter holy grail pheno 2 .. both super fire..

ill post close ups if you like? super frosty

I have found that I don’t like going for quantity over quality. Its easier for me to do two plants that will total 700g dried over a single tree that does over 1.25 lbs. it takes less time and has less of an impact if something goes wrong. Plus, I grow different strains at the same time in an RDWC so I have to find that sweet spot that is a balance of light, RH, and nutrients for all of them.

Colas make for good pictures, but they are not indicative of quality. Look at GSC... it genetically tends to have smaller colas, but has high potency, can have high quantity, etc. it just doesn’t tend to get donkey dick colas.

DesertPlants said:

I have found that I don’t like going for quantity over quality. Its easier for me to do two plants that will total 700g dried over a single tree that does over 1.25 lbs. it takes less time and has less of an impact if something goes wrong. Plus, I grow different strains at the same time in an RDWC so I have to find that sweet spot that is a balance of light, RH, and nutrients for all of them.

Colas make for good pictures, but they are not indicative of quality. Look at GSC... it genetically tends to have smaller colas, but has high potency, can have high quantity, etc. it just doesn’t tend to get donkey dick colas.

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i definitely agree with this bit.. some of my faves for potency and flavor tend to be small yielders.. bubba kush always comes to mind as an example.

promedz said:

this is a fools gold.. smelled like some sour fruity skunk.. every time i popped a seed of her i didn't clone but she always came out close to the same... popped 4 diff seeds all fire! and she finished in 7 weeks this was day 50 at chop! bigger roots = bigger fruits if you give the plant enough light and it has enough roots you will get bigger buds... View attachment 4278852 View attachment 4278853 View attachment 4278854

Click to expand...

Thats some very impressive buddage! Almost to the point where i would get afraid of budrot with so many buds so tightly. Respect!

On the theme at hand: vegg time, number of nodes, roots, and amount of tops have been mentioned. Id pose the following: stalk/branch diameter and how much support you give them. I dont have enough experience to say either way but if the buds arent well supported by thicker branches and/or stalking/scrogging wouldnt it be fairly logical that budsize would be affected? Also: sometimes you have squichy and hollow stalks versus solid woody stalks. Does anyone have comments on how this would affect budsize?

Rocket Soul said:

Thats some very impressive buddage! Almost to the point where i would get afraid of budrot with so many buds so tightly. Respect!

On the theme at hand: vegg time, number of nodes, roots, and amount of tops have been mentioned. Id pose the following: stalk/branch diameter and how much support you give them. I dont have enough experience to say either way but if the buds arent well supported by thicker branches and/or stalking/scrogging wouldnt it be fairly logical that budsize would be affected? Also: sometimes you have squichy and hollow stalks versus solid woody stalks. Does anyone have comments on how this would affect budsize?

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what i found is that any time a bud starts to fall over it stops getting fatter so the branch dont brake its like a defense.. so i like to get like 12-16 bamboo sticks holding every bud i can up and it will get fat the stem does need to be a decent size thats why at week2 i cut all scrawny branches.. hollow vs woody dont matter just keep them supported and they will keep growing.


ive never had bud rot! if your air flow is good i have overkill for my tent my humidity goes up dont matter... bad circulation is cause for bud rot imo.... but again ive never had it or pm thank god...

hotrodharley said:

I top 3 times leaving 8 main branches. I find topping more requires more veg time and more light to get a load of good sized buds.

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i only top 1-2 times then use another trick to get more tops... works great