VTXDave
Well-Known Member
The Soviets were anything but stupid. Do keep in mind that like the US, they had former WWII German scientists working on their rockets as well.
Did we actually land on the moon?
- Thread starter We TaRdED
- Start date
Bamm Bamm
Well-Known Member
but who won ww2=) us so we're smarter...LOL I have no clue how fucking smart any of those commie bastards are honestly I can care less... IMO though the landing was faked... I WAS NOT ALIVE when it happened so I'm sure I have a different opinion on it then alot of people but by the videos and pictures I've seen have led me to this conclusion of the faked landing....
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
Ummm....We were fighting the Germans, not the Soviets. The Soviets were our allies at the time.
Bamm Bamm
Well-Known Member
I didn't say we were fighting them....
Bamm Bamm
Well-Known Member
hehehe I'm a jack of all trades but only master of a few=)Wholly shit.Bamm Bamm, you're able to wrap your head around other sciences (you're the mini reef guy, right?), why not this?
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
Then exactly who were you referring to when you said "We won WWII therefore we're smarter"? The Soviets won the WWII as well.I didn't say we were fighting them....
Bamm Bamm
Well-Known Member
I was saying we kicked the fuck out of the germans yes the soviets helped buut WE were the stronger and smarter with more resources...(at least I feel we were)..but then again this thread has just turned into a pissing match at this point so who gives a fuck anymore=)
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
How so? I'm just asking you to clarify your statements and now it's a pissing match? All I'm asking for is clarification. I'm not arbitrarily dismissing you nor insulting you, am I? You stated that perhaps the Soviets were too "dumb" to be able to monitor our progress to the moon and I refuted that argument...nothing more.
For the record, had it not been for the Soviets, Germany may have been able to fortify it's Western Front thus preventing a successful invasion by the Allied Forces.
Gryphonn
Well-Known Member
I can understand your conclusions based on watching video footage of the moon landings. The footage looks like modern day poor special effects. The problem with todays SFX is that it goes 'beyond' realistic to ultra realistic...'too' real.
Given that the technology used for the moon missions was about as sophisticated as a pocket calculator and a VHS recorder, it stands to reason that someone born after this era would find the footage unusual. Further, if you look at most modern science fiction of planetary landings and walking about in low gravity, they (the movie makers) have got it wrong. It is their special effects that lead people to believe that the real footage is not 'real'.
For the record, if paranoia and greed didn't adulterate the true ethos of a communist culture and the true meaning of communism, I'd suggest we'd all be wanting to live in a communist country...but that's too long a theory to discuss here.
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
I concur on both points.For the record, if paranoia and greed didn't adulterate the true ethos of a communist culture and the true meaning of communism, I'd suggest we'd all be wanting to live in a communist country...but that's too long a theory to discuss here.
VTXDave
Well-Known Member
Case in point: "Armageddon"...Althoug I love the movie, WTF were they thinking when they came in for a high velocity landing on the asteroid w/ a shuttle? Wrong...You match velocities between the craft and the asteroid and you lightly touch down!Further, if you look at most modern science fiction of planetary landings and walking about in low gravity, they (the movie makers) have got it wrong. It is their special effects that lead people to believe that the real footage is not 'real'.
Gryphonn
Well-Known Member
Hehehe, gotta love SF movies! I'd like to see the new technologies being developed for asteroid/meteor/comet avoidance...Case in point: "Armageddon"...Althoug I love the movie, WTF were they thinking when they came in for a high velocity landing on the asteroid w/ a shuttle? Wrong...You match velocities between the craft and the asteroid and you lightly touch down!
One is to use a big magnifying glass to direct and concentrate sunlight onto one side of an object. The theory is that the rays will burn off the material on one side of the object, causing a propulsion effect (like a booster rocket) to move it off collision course.
Another is to use a big pronged hook type thing to grab an object and tow it off course...better than nuking the things and having forty million tonnes of radioactive rock falling on us. Bugger! Another subject that could go on for ages...
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Aside from the alleged evidence that I have provided you with, I'd just like to disclose some info on why I'm a conspiracy 'theorist', for the record. Pre-911 I wouldn't have thought twice about the the moon landings being faked- I would have brushed it off and thought someone was crazy. After all, I always thought my gov't was the shyt, everyone working for us has utter integrity because its the peoples choice. We elect these people, we want them working for us, right? ~lol~
After spending many hours researching 911 I've come to the conclusion that there is something more going on than they lead us to believe. I'm not going to get into detail about it because there are other threads that I could link you to that has info on that. But, IMHO there is enough evidence to conclude that 911 was an inside job. I bet if it was a case in an unbiased court, and the jury was fully disclosed than they would rule the USA gov't GUILTY.
So to me, if our gov't could play a role in one of the worst terrorist attacks on OUR OWN PEOPLE, than whats stopping them from playing foolish pranks like this on the public?
As Dave and Seamaiden knows, the CIA were training Al Quada/ Osama Bin Laden in the first place. You guys know that the only weapons that we we found in Iraq were the ones sold to them. You know 911 was the pretext for the war in the middle east. You know Iraq was not an eminent threat. You know Iran is not an eminent threat. You guys know that the upper echelon who are pulling the string have absolute power, and what comes with absolute power? Absolute corruption(if your a bad person anyway).
As I said about the dolphin thing. Even if I took pics of the dolphins being on board and posted it on this website, people could claim that I photo-shopped it in. People could call me a liar and say that kind of stuff would never happen because someone would have already leaked and that would have been public knowledge by now. ~LOL~
Unless you are a player you are a spectator. Unless you see it in real life(not on the TV) you can only watch what your are given via the 'tube'(TV). We all should know by now that what we see via the 'tube' is biased and is bought out by big money companies. People need jobs so they can have money to live, maybe the same reason I keep my mouth shut about the dolphins. Just something to think about.... Hehe
Edit- another reason why I wouldn't have said anything is because I would NOT have been able to get a fishing job in the same state again. I'm sure you guys have heard the term 'blacklisted'.
After spending many hours researching 911 I've come to the conclusion that there is something more going on than they lead us to believe. I'm not going to get into detail about it because there are other threads that I could link you to that has info on that. But, IMHO there is enough evidence to conclude that 911 was an inside job. I bet if it was a case in an unbiased court, and the jury was fully disclosed than they would rule the USA gov't GUILTY.
So to me, if our gov't could play a role in one of the worst terrorist attacks on OUR OWN PEOPLE, than whats stopping them from playing foolish pranks like this on the public?
As Dave and Seamaiden knows, the CIA were training Al Quada/ Osama Bin Laden in the first place. You guys know that the only weapons that we we found in Iraq were the ones sold to them. You know 911 was the pretext for the war in the middle east. You know Iraq was not an eminent threat. You know Iran is not an eminent threat. You guys know that the upper echelon who are pulling the string have absolute power, and what comes with absolute power? Absolute corruption(if your a bad person anyway).
As I said about the dolphin thing. Even if I took pics of the dolphins being on board and posted it on this website, people could claim that I photo-shopped it in. People could call me a liar and say that kind of stuff would never happen because someone would have already leaked and that would have been public knowledge by now. ~LOL~
Unless you are a player you are a spectator. Unless you see it in real life(not on the TV) you can only watch what your are given via the 'tube'(TV). We all should know by now that what we see via the 'tube' is biased and is bought out by big money companies. People need jobs so they can have money to live, maybe the same reason I keep my mouth shut about the dolphins
. Just something to think about.... HeheEdit- another reason why I wouldn't have said anything is because I would NOT have been able to get a fishing job in the same state again. I'm sure you guys have heard the term 'blacklisted'.
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VTXDave
Well-Known Member
We...You know I love ya man, but you're linking 4 disparate events into one big "conspiracy" (moon landings, Iraq, 9/11, Iran). I have researched and read many books on all these subjects. I do not buy into conspiracies on any of these. Why? Because I always ask the question "To what end?". I won't argue that our government has done some dirty shit, but conspiracies? No...I don't buy it.Aside from the alleged evidence that I have provided you with, I'd just like to disclose some info on why I'm a conspiracy 'theorist', for the record. Pre-911 I wouldn't have thought twice about the the moon landings being faked- I would have brushed it off and thought someone was crazy. After all, I always thought my gov't was the shyt, everyone working for us has utter integrity because its the peoples choice. We elect these people, we want them working for us, right? ~lol~
After spending many hours researching 911 I've come to the conclusion that there is something more going on than they lead us to believe. I'm not going to get into detail about it because there are other threads that I could link you to that has info on that. But, IMHO there is enough evidence to conclude that 911 was an inside job. I bet if it was a case in an unbiased court, and the jury was fully disclosed than they would rule the USA gov't GUILTY.
So to me, if our gov't could play a role in one of the worst terrorist attacks on OUR OWN PEOPLE, than whats stopping them from playing foolish pranks like this on the public?
As Dave and Seamaiden knows, the CIA were training Al Quada/ Osama Bin Laden in the first place. You guys know that the only weapons that we we found in Iraq were the ones sold to them. You know 911 was the pretext for the war in the middle east. You know Iraq was not an eminent threat. You know Iran is not an eminent threat. You guys know that the upper echelon who are pulling the string have absolute power, and what comes with absolute power? Absolute corruption(if your a bad person anyway).
As I said about the dolphin thing. Even if I took pics of the dolphins being on board and posted it on this website, people could claim that I photo-shopped it in. People could call me a liar and say that kind of stuff would never happen because someone would have already leaked and that would have been public knowledge by now. ~LOL~
Unless you are a player you are a spectator. Unless you see it in real life(not on the TV) you can only watch what your are given via the 'tube'(TV). We all should know by now that what we see via the 'tube' is biased and is bought out by big money companies. People need jobs so they can have money to live, maybe the same reason I keep my mouth shut about the dolphins
1. The Moon Landings: WHY would they fake it? For what reason? Because we didn't have the technology? We did, we invented it as we went. Radiation? Yes, the astronauts were exposed to heavy radiation, but they went anyway.
Ask yourself this...Given that we had some of the greatest technological minds of the time working to get a man on the moon, even if they were to "fake it", don't you think that they would've made sure that the astronauts could jump, or the flag wouldn't "wave", or the stars would be seen? Nobody has yet to answer me as to why the Soviets didn't expose this fraud (they tracked us out to the moon and back) other than they were "dumber" than us.
2. 9/11...Osama has given his reasons why they attacked us and those reasons go back to our involvement in the 1950's in the Middle East. I have researched all of it...many books...not just youtubes and heresay on the web. Yes we trained OBL...but that was loooong before 9/11 was planned and he (while a member of the Mujahadin) was allied with us against the Soviets in Afghanistan
3. Iraq...No conspricacy here other than lies and coverups. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet were instrumental in convincing Bush that this war was necessary. And yes, we sold them weapons during the Iran/Iraq War but it certainly was not a conspiracy, it was "business as usual".
4. Iran...This is just "Iraq: The Sequel"...Just another reason to expand the American Empire.
We landed on the moon...Al Qaeda brought down the WTC. I will be more than happy to give you a list of books to read if you're interested.
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VTXDave
Well-Known Member
One more thing We...I love your passion and vehemence. I hope you never lose it. But in your endeavor(s) for the answers, always keep the goal in mind. Always scrutinize what you see and read...no matter what. Always look at the "other sides" viewpoints. For example, I believe in natural selection, but I also read and study theology. I think (at least I hope) you know that I will never insult or disparage you for what you want to believe (unlike a certain mutual friend of ours in the Politics Forum), but I will offer you suggestions and avenues to pursue...I hope you don't mind as I consider you a friend. 
Gryphonn
Well-Known Member
Forgive my intrusion, but I *really* need to butt in here.
First, the one thing that gets people confused (no, I'm not singling you out We Tarded) about this Middle East invasion by GB and his corporate mates is that Iraq and Afghanistan are totally unrelated in terms of 9/11. Saddam Hussein and Iraq had absolutely *nothing* to do with the attack on the WTC towers. Nothing, nada, zip...or in the great language of us Aussies, "Fuck all, your honour".
Osama bin Laden and friends were trained by the CIA back in the days when the US and the USSR were 'enemies' (the Cold War) in the late eighties. He was trained in Afghanistan on Afghani soil many, many miles from Iraq, on the other side of Iran. bin Laden and his crew were trained to fight against the Russians who were coming in from the North attempting to take control of Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden wanted to retain freedom for Afghanistan and took what the US govt was offering them, probably knowing full well that the US would want something in return. After the Russians withdrew from Afghanistan, the group al Qaeda was formed and would not let the US take their freedom away either, hence the sudden reversal of 'friendship' by the US CIA and other govt organisations.
The US sold Saddam Hussein chemical weapons as well as conventional weapons between 1982 and 1988 so that Hussein could continue his campaign against his neighbour Iran, and to a lesser extent, Syria. I should add that up until 1980, Iraq's chief weapons supplier was the USSR. The Soviets withdrew arms sales when Saddam invaded Iran. Suddam lost favour with 'the West' when it attacked Kuwait (and the US and other UN countries retaliated with 'Desert Storm' in 1991).
We all know that none of the Middle East countries, Afghanistan, Iraq or Iran are 'imminent' threats to the US or any other 'Western' country. They are however, passageways that would allow a much freer supply of oil for the US. The current 'war' is also making some friends of GWB and his family very, very rich (Halliburton and Bechtel for example).
Now, considering what we know of clandestine operations by the CIA and other US govt agencies from the 80's through to the mid nineties; stuff that the US govt tried *extremely* hard to hide (encouraging underground sales of arms to Iraq etc), I doubt very much that something as big as a moon landing could be faked, or in the case of the WTC tragedy, covered up. I will say though that *I believe* that the US secret service groups knew that something big was going on, and they may well have known what was planned (they see everything anyway) in the sense of mass plane hijackings and attacks on buildings. However, I seriously doubt that they were directly involved other than being involved by their inaction.
Dolphins? Boats? Tell me more? Or a link?
But then, people like you and VTXDave and Seamaiden and many others who aren't willing to be spoonfed propaganda by mainstream media and govt agencies won't allow bullshit to persist. You and many others will try to look beyond the crap and find the real truth.Unless you are a player you are a spectator. Unless you see it in real life(not on the TV) you can only watch what your are given via the 'tube'(TV). We all should know by now that what we see via the 'tube' is biased and is bought out by big money companies. People need jobs so they can have money to live, maybe the same reason I keep my mouth shut about the dolphins
That's why bullshit gets uncovered. The problem is, something like the Apollo 'faked' missions have been studied by many people for many years (38 and counting), with very few people still convinced that the landings were faked.
As with the bullshit George Bush and his cronies spun about Hussein and his WMD's, the truth eventually gets exposed.
If the WTC (9/11) attacks were an 'inside job', that will be exposed in the near future. However, I think the truth of the Apollo landings is pretty sound. They all happened and it wasn't a 'mirrors and shadows' trick.
Gryphonn
Well-Known Member
(Dave, you must have started your long response when I did...I dragged the chain a bit though)
SHIT, I forgot to provide two links for you We Tarded:
SourceWatch - SourceWatch
INFORMATION CLEARING HOUSE. NEWS, COMMENTARY & INSIGHT
I hope you find them interesting. Oh, don't worry about the dolphins, I just saw your edit and can gather what you are talking about.
Sounds very interesting though...
in a similar vein, my father worked in oil search in Australia for around 3 decades. He once told me (back in the late 70's) that he knew of dozens of productive wells that had been capped and then left out of any reports that could become public. He told me of locations that are now only just being 'discovered'. It's funny, I can never remember off the top of my head the places he mentioned, but they suddenly spring to mind when mentioned in the context of oil or gas finds.
SHIT, I forgot to provide two links for you We Tarded:
SourceWatch - SourceWatch
INFORMATION CLEARING HOUSE. NEWS, COMMENTARY & INSIGHT
I hope you find them interesting. Oh, don't worry about the dolphins, I just saw your edit and can gather what you are talking about.
Sounds very interesting though...
in a similar vein, my father worked in oil search in Australia for around 3 decades. He once told me (back in the late 70's) that he knew of dozens of productive wells that had been capped and then left out of any reports that could become public. He told me of locations that are now only just being 'discovered'. It's funny, I can never remember off the top of my head the places he mentioned, but they suddenly spring to mind when mentioned in the context of oil or gas finds.
We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Dave, you know I love you too
and I highly respect what you say because you usually hit the nail on the head and your polite in the process. I am simply playing devils advocate because, frankly, its fun doing so. Regardless of what really happened, I'm having fun sharing these conspiracy 'theories' with you guys and hearing your POV(point of view). "I won't argue that our government has done some dirty shit, but conspiracies? No...I don't buy it."
"In a political sense, conspiracy refers to a group of persons united in the goal of usurping or overthrowing an established political power. Typically, the final goal is to gain power through a revolutionary coup d'état or through assassination.
A conspiracy is to be contrasted with a cabal. The two are similar but have quite different connotations; in contrast to a cabal, a conspiracy usually looks to overthrow a fixed power instead of usurping it from within." From wiki.
So, you can see that the Revolutionary War was considered a 'conspiracy' from that definition. Thats just the first thing that comes to mind.
"The Moon Landings: WHY would they fake it? For what reason?"
The reason could have been because JFK set a goal for us to reach the moon before the decade was over. NASA was getting paid [fill in exact amount of millions of dollars here] dollars for space exploration. Maybe they felt obligated to produce something 'tangible'? Like I said, I'm not a space nut and I'm not very versed on the subject. I am simply playing devils advocate to open peoples minds
To think outside the box- whether its right or wrong. YouTube - Appollo Moon Hoax - Flag blowning in the wind
You can't tell me that that doesn't look funny.... ~LOL~ I'm simply having fun questioning the apparent obvious.
"Yes, the astronauts were exposed to heavy radiation, but they went anyway."
Do you think anyone in there right mind would be all about going through heavy radiation not knowing what the post-radiation side effects would be? Maybe you could get a Army soldier to go through 'heavy radiation' but as far as a very educated and smart NASA astronaut, I'm sure they would think and say
"heavy radiation? How much am I getting paid again? How much is my life worth if I'm maimed or dead? No thanks NASA I'll pass going through the 'heavy radiation' because my health is worth more than you can afford." JMHO
"don't you think that they would've made sure that the astronauts could jump, or the flag wouldn't "wave", or the stars would be seen?"
Well, I wouldn't expect to see stars in a 1969 video anyways, but the testimony of Neil Armstrong saying that they personally didn't see stars with their own eyes makes me wonder the dynamics of the moon. How bright is the moon when its only capable of reflecting ~7%(so I was told) of light? How bright does it have to be in order to 'wash' out stars from the sky? How much did their face mask shade light? These are questions that can be answered if someone wants to spend the time and energy looking, than we would be able to figure if they could have seen stars... I'm not feeling that ambitious right now, I'd need to do some serious googling...Haha
I would think that if the astronauts weighed less than 70lbs(130lbs lighter than normal) that they would be able to jump more than a foot an a half even in a pressurized suit. The only effect that a pressurized suit would have on the astronauts is that it would repel the fabric from their skin. Of course the higher the pressure the stiffer the spacesuit/fabric would become. I would imagine they wouldn't be pressurized more than 14.7psi or 1 bar. I do not know exactly how much that would impede an astronaut but I'm sure it would only be pressurized enough to keep them comfortable and keep the vacuum of space from pressing in on them. So if you agree with my last sentence/assumption than you would agree that the pressure in the suit would only help mobility and not hinder.
"Iraq...No conspricacy here other than lies and coverups. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tenet were instrumental in convincing Bush that this war was" necessary.
Yes, deception...... Need I say more? Seems kind of on par with conspiring... No?
Iran...This is just "Iraq: The Sequel"...Just another reason to expand the American Empire.
Exactly. I wonder what scare tactic 'we' are going to use in order to persuade the american people that the Iranians are really the culprit. They are the monsters that are/were harboring terrorists, they need to be taken out in order for their to be 'world peace'. Spread democracy after we blow their infrastructure to hell. ~lol~
Kinda depressing, I couldn't imagine living in the middle east right now. Look at all the problems we are having in the USA.. God bless them.
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We TaRdED
Well-Known Member
Ya man, I feel the same way. I'm glad for you to be apart of the discussion. You handle things in a mature and logical manner, " (unlike a certain mutual friend of ours in the Politics Forum)"... haha. I have no problem with people with opposing views as me, as long as no one is attacking each other due to lack of communication/intelligence. BTW, your my buddy tooOne more thing We...I love your passion and vehemence. I hope you never lose it. But in your endeavor(s) for the answers, always keep the goal in mind. Always scrutinize what you see and read...no matter what. Always look at the "other sides" viewpoints. For example, I believe in natural selection, but I also read and study theology. I think (at least I hope) you know that I will never insult or disparage you for what you want to believe (unlike a certain mutual friend of ours in the Politics Forum), but I will offer you suggestions and avenues to pursue...I hope you don't mind as I consider you a friend.
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