Depths Of The Universe And The Fragments Of Your Mind!

I wanted to start a thread that is a collaborative effort to try and create some dialogue between the different ideologies of the world, so many to describe, anything from Taoism to Theism, Atheism to Materialism and everything in between. The object is not to defend a particular ideology but explain your relation to the outer world and your assumption about this unknowable universe. Maybe similar in scope to a Plato story, more like the symposium than anything.

Well I guess I don't want to waste many months of pent up self-diagnostic introspection to find this thread doesn't take hold. I hope you recieve my message well and will please enlighten me to your, dare I say it, 'Theories' or predictions based solely on personal experience. This includes information that has been relayed to you through written or spoken word, and sensory data that leads you to make assumptions about the nature of reality.

Peace

Wish I saw this earlier. Gonna jump on this one tomorrow. Peace for now.

Padawanbater2, you nearly completely described what I think of the world.-Near mindless zombies that only are willing to deal with the things that are tangible but unknowable. As such have false interpretations of the world, mainly regarding the law of discernibles. I think every schools motto should have something to do with the doors of perception, or the nature of reality, "The nature of reality relies on perception." . Add a little enchantment into the world, instead of this bland, motionless, stagnant reality I understand most people to live in.

Before I "woke-up", to coin a phrase, I really felt that each day was the exact same and had this feeling of perpetual rehearsal that never went away. Going to school, same classes in the same order, week by week for 10 months, then a 2 month break, and this went on for 12 years; to say the least I was stressed out and could already see that I just wasn't quite "brainwashed" enough to passively accept an authority figure as the absolute rule of law, however I maintained good grades never flunking a single class in my history.

I mean teachers, in Canada anyway, really seem to abuse this principle that they are the figure head of the class. Through this approach of perpetuation, repetition, and dictation people become willing to accept certain precepts or laws as logic when they possess no form of such "gratuitous behavior". Most laws are not based on pure reasoning, not based on moral law, and evade questions of hypocrisy. The sheeple are willing to accept harassment from police, evasion by politicians, dysformation from government officials and the media, and social programs not giving two shits about the needy.

And people are generally not told that the TV device creates brain states that are related to the alpha wave state, that is induced after marijuana consumption, that puts the person into a highly suggestible state. The news host being the AUTHORITY, reading what she is told, generally seem very trustworthy but don't even know contradiction when they read it. Something they never apologize for or make really clear ever.

From what I understand of marijuana is that heavy consumption lets your neural network not self-kill or hide/store-away any unused or "odd" individual neurons, as well as aids in neurogenesis. So after years of heavy consumption, along side learning about real world issues, and experiencing delusional societal demands first hand, and deep contemplation, will leave the person a near infinite ability to access and deliver information. Bob Marley was said to have smoked 1 pound a week on average, and we all know what he pushed out of his "heart and mind".(Carl Sagan, Cheech Marin and David Chong, Bill Hicks, ect. ect.). Found to be anti-cancerous, anti-psychotic, and anti-inflammatory but still illegal to the utmost respect.

As for religion, we have gone into much, but still must receive reproach. An indignant, hurtful, reasonless, emotionless(while praying on emotion), reckless totalitarian regime. It houses evil as its enemy, although being the enemy of logic, it has no ground to gain. It makes laws that forbid freedom, while creating freedom for the enforcers(rape kids much...). As well is the prime suspect for all that is wrong in the world. You don't need religion to believe in GOD, and there are so many thousands of books that there couldn't possibly be one correct one. For all ye Christians I ask ye to read a translation of the egyptian book of the sun, about the sun god horus, just a little bit of a faithful challenge. And for the people that think you need other people or to be part of a community to be happy, you must look deeper inside before you beseech the outer realm for gratification.

I loosely conceptualized a postulation regarding the massive brainwash phenomena, that it is unsustainable. Well the idea is, aligning with socialism, that incremental removal of rights and freedoms as well as slow behavior correction you will see an entire population demand authority. Where as fascism an immediate or quick change is seen as the positive. I don't know where I read it but a quote from a journalist was along the lines of, "Any business or corporate operation will back any authoritarian government." Now where it becomes unsustainable is the contradiction, when new souls are born into the rat maze the are able to use their mind efficiently and hopefully can see the problems with the system much easier, unfortunately having the vocabulary of a tomato, this inability to dialogue between themselves and the outside world will result in violent dissonance, maybe suicides, drug abuse, failure to comply, or other "horrifying" acts.

The fact is, and this is a fact all politics should follow to the T that, the only knowable device is your own ThoughT patterns. Any claim otherwise is only an assumption, and what is that saying about assumptions?? We must see all as one, just as quantum physics and solipsism suggest, and a common understanding that all are infinitely equal to you, be them figments of perception or physical counterparts. Although not having complete cooperation from all able bodied parties will lead to the position we are in now, and with the people at the top of the social structure fighting unity tooth and nail we will not likely see peace for decades.

If you want to see the truth, it is out there. Don't look for information on a topic that defends your point of view, read and watch the stuff that challenges it and see where you stand. If its in point form recite to yourself rebuttals to the claims. The things passed off as truth are generally not but rather presupposed characteristics of faithful judgement. Comedians, writers, physicists, conspiracy theorists, directors, actors, all very much live a life in the now and have been able to harness their ability to create and amass wealth as well as happiness, the two not being exclusive.

"Soon the quest for truth will be realized impossible and replaced with the quest for the glory of the truth seeker." - Mr.KushMan

Peace

EDIT: Because all we have are words to describe and reason with ourselves, what hope do we have to convey these messages to others. Laws are set up with such twisted phrasing almost no undereducated citizen has any chance of realizing the ins and outs.

On drug and prostitution prohibition, even gun control and privatization; "When the government fear the people its freedom, when the people fear the government its tyranny." And Tyranny is clear and abundant, and the people who control government, like the expresident of Halliburton or an intregal investor in the Carlyle Group. THEY want people to make their lives better, but they realize self righteous slaves won't agree to live in squalor so they give you the absolute minimum.

Mr.KushMan said:

I wanted to start a thread that is a collaborative effort to try and create some dialogue between the different ideologies of the world, so many to describe, anything from Taoism to Theism, Atheism to Materialism and everything in between. The object is not to defend a particular ideology but explain your relation to the outer world and your assumption about this unknowable universe. Maybe similar in scope to a Plato story, more like the symposium than anything.

Well I guess I don't want to waste many months of pent up self-diagnostic introspection to find this thread doesn't take hold. I hope you recieve my message well and will please enlighten me to your, dare I say it, 'Theories' or predictions based solely on personal experience. This includes information that has been relayed to you through written or spoken word, and sensory data that leads you to make assumptions about the nature of reality.

Peace

Click to expand...

lol, i can go on for days on this one.
im gona be short though.

I think my idea of the world/purpose stems from being religious on one hand and previous experiences on the other.

I may seem a little out there but hey you put me on the spot with that one .

First ill start with the vision.
Earth, we are living.
2 types of people live here, The Good and The Evil.
And you can see it all around you, Corrupt Governments, Liar Politicians, Killers, Rapists, War and on the other hand you have Good people,Straight Peace makers, Straight Nature Protectors,Straight Doctors, so on.
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"Wasn’t there a long period of time before humans were even mentioned?"
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First ill start with the education system, i really think it is the most ingenious and most corrupt system ever created. I mean don't get me wrong, a lot of its aspects are really good but the way it is built is seriously wrong, brainwashing galore.
Now you have to ask, well what's the purpose? why is it like that? and who is benefiting?
In my opinion the purpose is in front of us if we wish to look for it. would you rather fight a million people to impose physical impissionment or would you rather control a million people?And even make them work for you? so how do you control a million, well you start them off at school, move them into college, throw them in university and then make them work for you. Effectively you would have brainwashed them for 20 odd years of their life, and that's a long time.

And then of course while they are outside education they still try to get a hold of them, everything from Xboxs to Laptops to Tv to radio to cell phones to internet. All in the effort to subdue a person to a planned out routine. They want you to be stuck on that line of being smart in what ever material they have to offer but nothing else and they especially dont want you to be thinking outside the box... they want you to be thinking inside the box.

Then you have the Tv which is illusionists in a glass box. I wont elaborate on that much but ill thow in a few.
First the news: To be able to subdue a persons thoughts and emotions you have to have the right combination of Mojo to be effective, everything from body language of the authoritative figures {reporters} to the Images of story's and background effects and music must be synchronized, effectively they put you in a "Haze" {lol} so that your just sitting there like a mouse feeding of everything they tell you. your brain at that point is in a futile state and digests the information as FACTS.

Then you have HOLLYWOOD and the American Dream. They are both a Dream, look at every single HOLLYWOOD actor/actress and tell me if any single one is happy? they are all up to their necks in sh!t. so whos benefiting i want to know? because it sure aint helping the actors and it sure aint helping the people.

Has anyone seen fantasia? i mean seriously that is supposed to be for kids for gods sake, has anyone seen the satanic end to that movie with porn inside it? if you watch it turn the sound off and then watch it. Who is benefiting? not the children.

Then we have the gadgets and so on, and the purpose is simple they want to make it easy on us. and thats true. but why? In my opinion effectively they are stripping away any fire in you and any spirit, they want you to have everything next to you, they dont want you to make effort to do anything and they want you to get used to laziness, what you don't realize is that your brain is the one learning not your body, so then when it comes to mental effort your brain will be in that same lazy state so you wont do things that exert extra effort mentally, now once your in that state they hit you with the News, Media and all sorts, your brain wont have any knowledge about certain subjects and since they put a few facts in between and those few nice pics so your brain recognizes those material truths which makes things more digestible and then it calculates that i can either accept the present, or go find out for myself and research. so obviously in that lazy state it will suck it all in with no question and no doubts. That calculation happens subconsciously and in a split second.

And once they have accomplished that, its open doors and beautiful gardens which means if they tell you this is why 2pac died they are truthful, this is why JFK died truthful, this is why we invaded Iraq, Afghanistan truthful, this is why the towers were knocked, now Iran's seeking weapons of mass destruction, Snoop Dog is the godfather, weed is bad or president bush has 8 toes its all the truth.
and once your in the matrix its really hard to come out, you will have to break those pre-programmed limits to escape but unfortunately the masses are stuck and seem to be enjoying being in an open prison.
"The battle of Hearts and Minds".

If one cannot change himself on the inside then he cannot change anyone on the outside.
Freethinking and the quest for more diverse knowledge is the only thing to set us free. Constant questioning and doubting are a must.
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"Did you consider it to be a lie without understanding it completely?"
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Ill brief on religion a bit:
Christian, Hindu, Muslim or what ever you are if you haven't read and understood your religion and doubted and questioned your religion constantly then you dont know your religion. You wouldn't claim to be part of an F1 racing team if you were a carpenter so why claim to be affiliated with religion when your not.{unless your a liar of course}
Before every fruit ripens, there is a struggle and length of time to pass. and before every achievement and every success there is a struggle and a length of time.

It took a huge amount for me personally to find what iv been looking for my whole life. it was constant struggles and shifts but true determination and true belief were the key, and as much as i was scared of the unknown results subconsciously, i was re payed with something so priceless, and all i could think about after that was how stupid i really was before and how arrogant and hopelessly lost i was and how much time i had wasted not having certain knowledge and answers for certain unanswered questions which the answers had been in front of my eyes all my life but my true quest and belief for it was never there so i never saw it.

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"And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind"
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So if you believe in a creator then you must believe that he has left a message on earth for humanity. but have you made the effort to find it if you really wanted to? REAL EFFORT?
Look around you, if there was a creator then where would he put the most valuable materialistic things for man? Gold, Oil, Diamonds, Pearls, metal, uranium etc... they are all hidden and require man to go through stages and searches and struggles to find and extract them. so what about a the ultimate message? you think that there wont be a struggle for the ultimate treasure? you make great effort for everything in your life but you wont make the slightest effort to find the truth.


ill get into History a bit.
can anyone deny what is found in Egypt and all over the world? pyramids, statues etc.. of seriously advanced and intelligent civilizations that have amazed us in things they have done and left us scratching heads at how they have done things, and even with all our digital age we cannot duplicate them.
what happened to all those people? im not gonna say my point on this as it might be a little out there because the only answer i have stems from my religion so ill just keep it an open question.

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I think people dont know and realize what they are supposed to do in life.
They follow and chase materialistic things in the bid for happiness. but they will never have it. Never.
you see what the media and the mags say, people go by and do.
so in effect you are really just wasting time chasing life just like the donkey chases the carrot on the stick.
eg: every year there is this new product and your always upgrading and upgrading, and as soon as you have something that is new, the newer one comes out so now you have the old one and thats a big no no, so your unhappy with it, and by the time you get the new one another 2 of the other things you have, have a new one, and your on this constant running after the carrot, and its even worse because they actually let you have a little nibble on the carrot to give you a little taste and make you long for it.
Then clothes, watches, hair styles and all types and roads that lead to differentiation between people especially when depending on financial status, leading to showoff and hate contests between people instead of it being admiration.

in my view thats only to make you think that what is most important and what you need to constantly be working on bettering is your body and outer self, and not your heart and mind. when in reality your body is going to end up in the ground and your going to die before you even catch that carrot{materialistic world} so working on your outside is important but it should be way after secondary cause and definitely not primary cause.
look at any magazine like Vogue, Victoria's Secret, and see how they are hypnotizing and telling women what to do and whats to be done instead of real advice. And i see and hear "You only live once so enjoy and make the most of it",
I say you only die once, so make sure your 100% about your choices and that you haven't overlooked something that might make a difference because aint no return once that's done. And since people wake up in the morning and prepare themselves for work or school or what ever and we put the fact of death in the past and dont think of it. we prepare for everything else from pinapple cake to graduation so why not for death when it is really the most important aspect of our lives.

In my view a woman's V is supposed to be sacred and in the same category of diamonds and pearls that are hard to get to and need a struggle to get there but in return you get something beautiful, instead we find it being offered all over and dished out for free or for a few shots and a some vodka and yeah maybe its fun when your 18 or 19 but its a serious problem. people now days change each other like they change their toilet paper, and once you have that in front of you and on your mind, your roasted for life. of course it doesn't help either that everything in this world from Music to cartoons has become all about "SEX, DRUGS, ROCK&ROLL". even animals dont have sex as much as we do, or used to do...
I mean is that all life has to offer us{is what i asked myself}, surely there must be more. i mean if that's the truth then ill have to accept the facts i guess but i wont go down without a fight. And i won.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then *We parted them, and *We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?And *We have placed in the earth firm hills lest it quake with them, and *We have placed therein ravines as roads that haply they may find their way.And *We have made the sky a roof withheld. Yet they turn away from its portents. And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.
{*We=plural of respect}
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"Then what message will they believe in after this?"
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I think thats enough otherwise if i get any furthur, i wont stop till im done.
We should all learn something from each other, different people and different information is the best way to break limits and barriors, and attain a deeper understanding of things.

I wanna sleep .

peaceee.

Yep, you bring up a good point. I remember the train of thought I used to have as a kid and early teenager - that of if some person in a position of authority, be it a parent, teacher, or anyone older really, as I was pretty much always told "respect your elders", said something, I wouldn't have questioned it because, they're older and they know what's best - or so I thought. When you realize you can question anything, and questioning everything leads to true knowledge about the world, the scope of reality can actually be discovered. This single thought has led me to read three books so far that have given me that much more knowledge about the world than I had before. It makes me crave it.

"Any business or corporate operation will back any authoritarian government." Now where it becomes unsustainable is the contradiction, when new souls are born into the rat maze the are able to use their mind efficiently and hopefully can see the problems with the system much easier, unfortunately having the vocabulary of a tomato, this inability to dialogue between themselves and the outside world will result in violent dissonance, maybe suicides, drug abuse, failure to comply, or other "horrifying" acts.

Click to expand...

I feel just like that. But what of the ones - like you and I, and a few others I could name on this website, and a few people I know in person I could count on one hand - that are completely woken up to how the game is played? I think the problem is there's just not enough of us. What can an army of few do against a standing army of BILLIONS funded by the wealthiest governments in the world? All we have is our freedom to say the shit we say here on the internet - and half the people we try to reach are actively against us. Another quarter are the perpetraitors. I'd say you and I, and the people like us, make up about 1% or 2% of all people. The question has become - is it worth it to have hope in the human race? I have been asking myself that a lot lately...

The people in power, in almost every position worth taking, use the tactics designed by political and military strategists throughout history to the tee against us. I've sat there and gone down the list myself, people have come up with checklists individuals go through to attain power, keep it under all circumstances, and in the end, in most cases, kill thousands of people and get killed themselves. Just like there are signs and symptoms for serial killers, there are for politicians. Hitler, Stalin, all the big names - they all have certain things in common. Their regimes as well. The reasons the things they did were allowed to happen as well - and possibly most importantly.

[youtube]JtwUjcGNuIw[/youtube]

i think that life here is meant to be a lesson. i personally think thats the whole reason for life in the first place. to learn. to learn how to connect to everyone and everything around you. to learn to be without ego. to stop fighting the direction of the universe and just learn to go with it in harmony

as for religious type ideas of god and such...i personally feel that the universe itself is the entity that people call "god". i think that its intelligent and conscious, but i dont think that it communicates like we do. i mean, i think that too many things in this world are too perfectly created to just be some random coincidence. so i do think that our universe has intelligence to it. i just dont think its intelligent or conscious like an individual person would be...more like a force.

Padawanbater2 said:

Hi Sarah

You said you think the purpose of life is to learn. Do you mean human life, or all life?

Also, what kind of "force" could you compare the kind you're calling God in this analogy? Like "the force" from Star Wars?

Click to expand...

the "force" im referring to would be essentially the "force of nature" i think. just an unseen force...like a strong energy or something like that. its hard to put it into words i guess lol.

and i believe its all life, not just human life. although i also think that humans require the most lessons. animals already seem to understand their place in the world. we still dont...

and how've you been? it's been a while since i've seen you around on the boards!

Could you be trying to describe the fundamental building blocks of reality, and that they could have a set movement based on the creation(Big Bang Background Radiation), fractal-like cycling. Like the idea that elementary particles are all made up of the same stuff, and that stuff is either consciousness(of some kind) or an inanimate essence of oneness, but either way it brings rise to our subjective consciousnesses.

I was thinking about doing acid tonight, I recently received a ten strip of some of the hoffman bicycle day print(100 mcg), and I got to closing my eyes and watching a whirlwind of shape-thoughts and I realized, as I was watching the shapes that seemed to be arising out of nothing, that the shapes I knew were "singing"(*TM*) new shapes into existence. What ever it means I just thought it was an interesting experience.

Peace

*TM=Terrence McKenna

hmm. interesting. AND im lifted up on some northern lights clouds right now. okay, let me organize my thoughts real quick..lol.
and this is monday morning. jeez..but anyways..

We are currently shifting into the new Aquarius Age. IMO, mankind's psyche is evolving. It's so powerful, it reflects itself in the physical world. (violence, etc). It's an awesome time to live in just to witness it. Although as most of u can tell, theres gonna continue to be an incredible amount of destruction. but its needed.

i think i can get off subject real easily, my bad.

but i do believe in a special connection to whatever you wanna call it thats within you, and whatever surrounds us invisibily. Meditation, both herbal and sober. and exercise...will bring you closer to the beginning of that connection thats inside you. thats the first step. most of us have no idea what we're really capable of. we have no idea what powers our psyche holds. you've heard about the whole "oh yeah we only use 10% of our brain function". well no shit, lol. it is the elites job to dumb us down, keep us from knowing our true existence.


then theres the outer connection. there are ones that are among us, that are not a part of the physical world. they are with you in every triumph and every loss in your life. im still learning, so its not like I know anything more about them. but there are ones above too. influencing us constantly. observing. they are like stars in the sky. our "gods". that is your 'connection'. maybe when the human race peaks into enlightenment, we will finally be told the truth. we will finally KNOW. because none of us, knows anything. nothing. we think we do. but we dont. know. shit. thats the problem with religion. it makes people think they have all the answers. all we have are theories, and every answer is right and wrong in a way. so there is no such thing as right and wrong.

im about to blow a brain fuse, LOL...

all the world has are opinions neither right nor wrong but all have a delicate inkling of the truth within. all we have to do is believe that there is more to the universe then just what we can see feel smell hear taste and percieve for there are more senses within the mind then just the 6 physical senses there could be limitless senses that only need be awakened by physical exercise:running hiking climbing swimming ect. mental exercise:sudoku reading chess ect. spiritual exercise:meditation praying;not in a religous context for certain wants and needs but to simply have a conversation with the universe. as well as hope for is that not one of the single most powerful forces of the human spirit the universe is a force but so is the soul

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude - In response to your threads title, it felt justified, it felt right. -dudemanbro.


Aslide from that, to be more pacific, I mustache you a question on this good sir.
How do you feel language and culture barriers in the translation between two Ideologies or religions would result on the overall take and understanding/view from the opposite group onto the other? Good general example here is the comparison of eastern to western. Buddhism or Taoism to islam or TFSM?(the flying spaghetti monster) when translated into another language, with shifting cultural takes, perceptions and influences, all that interpretation, the message gets promptly skewed imo. Good example would be the definition of 'Faith.' Buddhism does not advocate faith in the more understood western ways, of believing something because it is written in a book or attributed to a prophet or taught to you by some authority figure. What's right is right, etc etc.(ever get taught with a school textbook 10 years out of date? try a few thousand on morals and ways of life, get my point?) The meaning within Buddhism is closer to a particular confidence from experience and moral understanding/comprehension. It is knowing that something is true because you have seen it work, because you have observed that very thing within yourself.(kinda seems science like almost in an empirical evidence sort of way) In the same way, morality is not a ritualistic obedience to some exterior, imposed code of behavior. You know that shaz because it's within our nature, and as culture shows all over the world, within our nurture too.

But yeah, how do you see westerners interpreting say, Islam, and how islam is say, 'comprehending' any other theistic ideology out there? How does our culture, after hundreds and hundreds of years of re-translations and reinterpretations view any Polytheistic religion from 'back in teh day'? see any foreshadowing for anything?