Deformed Bud Leaves, no yellowing. Help?

panessa

panessa

Well-Known Member
Two out of five of my girls are having some issues with there new bud leaves. All the fan leaves are perfect, and the other 3 plants that are in the exact same setup are not showing the same symptoms...they're perfectly healthy.

Best I can figure from the ICM and the rollitup guide is that its a copper deficiency...but it just doesn't feel right. No blue or yellowing at all, no spots, and I haven't changed a single aspect of my op in 3-4 successful grows...so I having a hard time isolating the issue.

They are under a 1000w HPS, on Flora nutes. I may have slightly nute burned them about a week ago, but a few buckets of clean water later they seemed to be happy. I figured if this was a result of nute burn, it would have effected all the plants equally(they all the same strain, sweettooth).


I don't have a ph meter, nor a tds meter....I've always just measured my nutes and judged by the plants reaction....which has never caused a problem before.


Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I'm not happy when my girls aren't happy.
 

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panessa

panessa

Well-Known Member
Lights go off in 10 min, I'll repost some clearer pics. By the book it does sound like a copper deficiency, what is the most efficient way to bring up the copper level? Is there any other possibilities I should be considering?
 
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powervoid

Active Member
Heat stress. Also don't flush with pure water. The plants have nutes in them. The pure water has dramatically less if any. So if your EC is 2.0 in the res or if you hand water this late in cycle (HPS and obvious flowering shows its in the 12/12 cycle and depending on strain and on your nutes the EC should be anywhere from 1.4 to 2.0 (max). This nute rich water goes from roots into stem, leaves, flowers etc. The pure water creates (recall your mandatory chemistry class?) an unavoidable chemical reaction referred to as "Brownian Motion" whereby the nute rich plants have a greater level of salts / nutes than the plain water. So the laws of chemistry tell us that there is an unavoidable reaction in the semi-permiable roots and other cells walls of the plants. The result is an attempt to equalize the concentration difference - since the plant has ALL and the water NONE measurable salts the reaction is ONE-WAY exporting nutes/salts from the plant to the water. This causes intense stress on the plants. You do not describe your grow room BUT you admit to no Ph (DUDE, what the hell? A simple Ph kit costs like $4 - you spend hundreds on lights, a res. bulbs, hoods, ballasts, nutes, clones, fans, reflective surfaces, etc. etc. and you KNOW that if the Ph. is too high then you have lockout of critical nutes. If its too low - critical lockout of required nutes. So having no idea at all of your ph. you cannot adjust it to 6.2 or so. I have used nutes when I added them to water the ph ended up at 4.0 and other nutes that with water exceeded 7.9 so buy a Ph meter. I would be pretty sure your ph is not correct - the plants still grow but they can't use some nutes - and this creates a domino effect - more nutes lockout. And to cause more problems you do not metion temp. or humidity of grow. Over about 80F will cause this sort of thing - or hermis. N0t t0 mention that many required nutes are locked out. Again, you cannot tell how bad because you havent bought an EC meter like the blue batton from N.Z.
NOW add heat. You do not mention grow room size or number of plants but I have had that skeletonized scare from simply running a few degrees too high. I use (highly reccomened by most growers in the professional area) as well and that odd look of small spiralized buds growing out from what looks like a done plant. So where I live yout penalty will be expensive.
Hope it makes sense - Im bombed.
Gileas
 
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panessa

panessa

Well-Known Member
powervoid - thanks for the insight. On my first grow two years ago, I bought some ph test strips....and it seemed every time I tested it ...it was in the 6's.....for the entire grow.....so I stopped testing.....big mistake. I'll get another test kit, and should I get some distilled water?

Heat I don't think is the issue....I have a huge inline fan pulling from the reflector hood and I have it dialed down to 50% power...and it says about 75-76 in there. In the summer I have an air conditioner just for my op..but I don't think were there yet.

check the grow journal in my signature...the first posts are of my setup as I was building it.....of course changes have been made since then :)
 
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powervoid

Active Member
I still reccomend one of those cheap ($40) temp / humidity thermometers. Your temp should not ever be above 80F or below 60F and humidity above 65 increases chances dramatically of (my spelling is terrible) botryolis (grey mold that forms in cola flowers). I hope I have been of some help. If you do not already have it, the best book on general issues is "Gardening Indoors" By Van Patten.
Powervoid
 
C

cheeseyman

Member
dude did you find out whether this was a copper def? Im getting exaclty the same on one of my two big bhudda cheeses - like you, my other one is budding fine and they share the same pot so im a little confused here... Ill be so greatful for a reply
 
shallrelicme

shallrelicme

Active Member
powervoid said:
Heat stress. Also don't flush with pure water. The plants have nutes in them. The pure water has dramatically less if any. So if your EC is 2.0 in the res or if you hand water this late in cycle (HPS and obvious flowering shows its in the 12/12 cycle and depending on strain and on your nutes the EC should be anywhere from 1.4 to 2.0 (max). This nute rich water goes from roots into stem, leaves, flowers etc. The pure water creates (recall your mandatory chemistry class?) an unavoidable chemical reaction referred to as "Brownian Motion" whereby the nute rich plants have a greater level of salts / nutes than the plain water. So the laws of chemistry tell us that there is an unavoidable reaction in the semi-permiable roots and other cells walls of the plants. The result is an attempt to equalize the concentration difference - since the plant has ALL and the water NONE measurable salts the reaction is ONE-WAY exporting nutes/salts from the plant to the water. This causes intense stress on the plants. You do not describe your grow room BUT you admit to no Ph (DUDE, what the hell? A simple Ph kit costs like $4 - you spend hundreds on lights, a res. bulbs, hoods, ballasts, nutes, clones, fans, reflective surfaces, etc. etc. and you KNOW that if the Ph. is too high then you have lockout of critical nutes. If its too low - critical lockout of required nutes. So having no idea at all of your ph. you cannot adjust it to 6.2 or so. I have used nutes when I added them to water the ph ended up at 4.0 and other nutes that with water exceeded 7.9 so buy a Ph meter. I would be pretty sure your ph is not correct - the plants still grow but they can't use some nutes - and this creates a domino effect - more nutes lockout. And to cause more problems you do not metion temp. or humidity of grow. Over about 80F will cause this sort of thing - or hermis. N0t t0 mention that many required nutes are locked out. Again, you cannot tell how bad because you havent bought an EC meter like the blue batton from N.Z.
NOW add heat. You do not mention grow room size or number of plants but I have had that skeletonized scare from simply running a few degrees too high. I use (highly reccomened by most growers in the professional area) as well and that odd look of small spiralized buds growing out from what looks like a done plant. So where I live yout penalty will be expensive.
Hope it makes sense - Im bombed.
Gileas
Click to expand...
I am new to hydro and what you said seems to be contrary to what I have heard. Are you not required to flush with plain PH'd water every couple of weeks in order to remove excess salt build up that will in itself cause a lockout?
 
itsgrowinglikeaweed

itsgrowinglikeaweed

Well-Known Member
powervoid said:
Heat stress. Also don't flush with pure water. The plants have nutes in them. The pure water has dramatically less if any. So if your EC is 2.0 in the res or if you hand water this late in cycle (HPS and obvious flowering shows its in the 12/12 cycle and depending on strain and on your nutes the EC should be anywhere from 1.4 to 2.0 (max). This nute rich water goes from roots into stem, leaves, flowers etc. The pure water creates (recall your mandatory chemistry class?) an unavoidable chemical reaction referred to as "Brownian Motion" whereby the nute rich plants have a greater level of salts / nutes than the plain water. So the laws of chemistry tell us that there is an unavoidable reaction in the semi-permiable roots and other cells walls of the plants. The result is an attempt to equalize the concentration difference - since the plant has ALL and the water NONE measurable salts the reaction is ONE-WAY exporting nutes/salts from the plant to the water. This causes intense stress on the plants. You do not describe your grow room BUT you admit to no Ph (DUDE, what the hell? A simple Ph kit costs like $4 - you spend hundreds on lights, a res. bulbs, hoods, ballasts, nutes, clones, fans, reflective surfaces, etc. etc. and you KNOW that if the Ph. is too high then you have lockout of critical nutes. If its too low - critical lockout of required nutes. So having no idea at all of your ph. you cannot adjust it to 6.2 or so. I have used nutes when I added them to water the ph ended up at 4.0 and other nutes that with water exceeded 7.9 so buy a Ph meter. I would be pretty sure your ph is not correct - the plants still grow but they can't use some nutes - and this creates a domino effect - more nutes lockout. And to cause more problems you do not metion temp. or humidity of grow. Over about 80F will cause this sort of thing - or hermis. N0t t0 mention that many required nutes are locked out. Again, you cannot tell how bad because you havent bought an EC meter like the blue batton from N.Z.
NOW add heat. You do not mention grow room size or number of plants but I have had that skeletonized scare from simply running a few degrees too high. I use (highly reccomened by most growers in the professional area) as well and that odd look of small spiralized buds growing out from what looks like a done plant. So where I live yout penalty will be expensive.
Hope it makes sense - Im bombed.
Gileas
Click to expand...
Really good info in here. +rep for you Powervoid.
I see A LOT of pictures of plants with that same curling of the leaves. 1 plant I had on my 1st grow did that. It was sativa. I have 3 plants now, and only one is doing that again. It also is mostly sativa. In both grows i battled high temperatures. After a bit of my own research, i concluded that the culing was a result of either high temps OR too strong of a nutrient solution, OR a combination of both. the plant i have that is doing that now is also VERY green compared to my other two, so blaming a rich medium makes A LOT of sense! And that is exactly what Powervoid is saying. I think... lol he did say he was bombed lol
 
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