Deficiency?

Never had too many issues at all but I returned home from Christmas to find my girl not doing well.

I recently translated her to a 5 gallon from a 3 gallon and did a fresh water change, and cleaned everything with h2o2 concentrate.

She is in week two of veg, I recently FIMed and she is on the way to recovery.

Here is the issue:

Not sure if this is a potassium deficiency or something else, but I'm open for any suggestions. I'm using GH Trio, tap water pH corrected (very soft and high pH), and CalMag supplement. Water temps are 59-68°F

Any thoughts?

Roots like relatively white and clear, some little build up, hence why I moved it to the 5 gallon for more room.

Are you pH'ing your water first or after adding all your nutrients? What pH are you running?

CannaCountry said:

Are you pH'ing your water first or after adding all your nutrients? What pH are you running?

Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply.

Here is how I mix:

1. Add 2gal tap water to bucket
2. Add 3% H2o2 solution (1.5ml / gal)
3. Add Micro, Grow, then Bloom from GH
4. Add CalMag
5. Add ten drops of pH down (because I know it's already at 9.2 ish)
6. Adjust pH

I have noticed that the pH starts to creep up over time, but I had this phenomenon in the past too, and just adjust accordingly.

The more I look at the plant, and the more ready I do, I think it actually might not be a nutrients issue, but rather a light issue. I have never used screw in A21 bulbs (16w real each), and I had them about 8-10" from the plant. I think I might be looking at light burn/stress here... ?

The leaf cupping is what has me wondering...

does look like heat stress to me....

Cupping margins, dark green older growth, purple petioles...

What light is it under and how close?
Light cycle?

The GH line has calmag, you might consider avoiding more and see what happens. A rising pH might indicate nutrient uptake as that's a big factor in your pH.

shishkaboy said:

Cupping margins, dark green older growth, purple petioles...

What light is it under and how close?
Light cycle?

Click to expand...

I currently have 7 x 16w (true) A21 screw in bulbs into a 7 way splitter. See pic for details.

I had the light 8-10" away for a while because the plant seemed to like it, but since having issues I've moved it up to 16".

It is on a 24hr cycle. I may consider giving it some rest and switching to 20/4.

I have a Mars TS600 coming for it in the second week of January, when I was hoping to flower, but I don't think she will be ready by then now...

wow looks very tired .. all the plant not just the bottom leaves
you want lushy green straight leaves
probably too much light put em farther
and dont use these calmag h2o2 things ..

Get that cardboard off the pots. Great way to get stem rot.

Put the Calmag in first, then nutes, then after a bit check pH and adjust. Better yet use RO water and your pH won't bounce around so much but GH always wanders a lot in everything I've seen so I use AN pH Perfect 3-part with RO and never change my water except for after the stretch if I bother even then. I've done 50 DWC tubs since '01 with AN, GH, H.O.G and a few others and AN is the easiest. Doesn't cost any more than the GH trio and sometimes even less. I got gal jugs a couple years back for $40 each at a hydro store that sold the GH jugs for $48. Some Rhino Skin for silica and Big Bud for big buds! Any old CalMag will do and some Epsom salts.

Not having to worry about pH is great. Even before AN went to pH Perfect it was 3 days before topups and a few drops of conc. sulphuric acid to get it down to 5.4 from 6.2.

Your water can't be all that soft if it has a high pH. Got to be some alkalinity in there to push the pH up. Contact your water supplier for a copy of the water analysis to get the real info. I doubt you need calmag with your tap water. I never used it until about 10 years ago and still not convinced I need it. Using Mega Crop nutes in soilless now and will try them in DWC before long. Loving them so far.

Go 18/6 with the lights too. 20/4 ain't bad but 24/0 is not great. Plants need a sleep cycle to do their best just like us.

THC-CK said:

Here is how I mix:

1. Add 2gal tap water to bucket
2. Add 3% H2o2 solution (1.5ml / gal)
3. Add Micro, Grow, then Bloom from GH
4. Add CalMag
5. Add ten drops of pH down (because I know it's already at 9.2 ish)
6. Adjust pH

I have noticed that the pH starts to creep up over time, but I had this phenomenon in the past too, and just adjust accordingly.

Click to expand...

As I mentioned above add your calmag first. Then Micro and the rest can go in any order.

If your sol'n is 9.2ish after adding nutes then your water has high alkalinity and that's why it creeps up. GH nutes push the pH down on their own but have very little buffering capacity. The pH down neutralizes the free ions but there are still carbonates that dissolve and raise the pH again so you keep needing to pH down. 3% peroxide has stabilizers and preservatives in it so get some 35% food grade and use it at 0.5ml/L or 2.0ml/USG twice a week for maintenance to keep the rez sterile. Can get at most health food stores and some garden centers. Pay more at a hydro shop. Can mix it down 11:1 to get 3% but I always use it straight with a syringe to suck up what I need.

THC-CK said:

I currently have 7 x 16w (true) A21 screw in bulbs into a 7 way splitter. See pic for details.

I had the light 8-10" away for a while because the plant seemed to like it, but since having issues I've moved it up to 16".

It is on a 24hr cycle. I may consider giving it some rest and switching to 20/4.

I have a Mars TS600 coming for it in the second week of January, when I was hoping to flower, but I don't think she will be ready by then now...

Click to expand...

looks like a P deficiency for some reason and go 18/6

Make sure your ph probe is accurate if you use one get the drops for back up if there is an issue and then you have drops to check the ph before thinking the ph probe is accurate before you go adjusting the ph up and down for no reason.

Thanks fellas.

I think I'll switch back to destilled water at this point. It eliminates a lot the fluctuations it seems. I will be sure to do CalMag first, but for those interested I've done really low doses. More of an extra just in case. I've been adding 1/4 tsp per 2.5 gal.

I also got rid of the lights. Now I'm running a blurple and fluorescents until my Mars TS600 gets here.

Also the H2o2 is 29% Optimum Hydro

Appreciate all the input!

Why the hydrogen peroxide? Just wondering.

THC-CK said:

Thanks fellas.

I think I'll switch back to destilled water at this point. It eliminates a lot the fluctuations it seems. I will be sure to do CalMag first, but for those interested I've done really low doses. More of an extra just in case. I've been adding 1/4 tsp per 2.5 gal.

I also got rid of the lights. Now I'm running a blurple and fluorescents until my Mars TS600 gets here.

Also the H2o2 is 29% Optimum Hydro

Appreciate all the input!

Click to expand...

Distilled and good RO are virtually the same tho RO is usually a lot cheaper. We buy 5 jugs/week at $3.50 each for drinking and my plants as our tap water comes out of a dugout on my property and is only filtered down to 5 micron. pH 8.4 and 400+ ppm so crap for plants.

With pure water you'll want some calmag and I use it at half what the bottle says and never had problems. All nutes have some of both in them but not really enough when none is added via the tap water like most use. A good rule of thumb when using harder water in hydro is to keep track of how much water is used for topups and once you've added back as much as the rez holds it's time to do a change. With very small plants that can take a month or more so changing every week is a waste of good nutes.

29% is fine and a 10:1 mix gets you 3% or close enough. Breaks down when diluted too much and that's why there's preservatives in the 3% from the drug store.

I'm running similar lights for my 24 smaller plants. DIY rig with 9 - 9W LED bulbs with the globes popped off. Works OK and the plants like it. 400 or 600W MH is in their near future tho.

Older pic.

ebcrew said:

Why the hydrogen peroxide? Just wondering.

Click to expand...

Prevents bad things from growing in the nutes and starting root rot. Not needed if a chiller is used to keep the nutes at 65-68F. Hydroguard or it's like is used by some but backfires sometimes too. Bacteria and fungi, even the beneficial kind, are best left out of hydro IMO.

How often were you flooding that container?

THC-CK said:

Thanks fellas.

I think I'll switch back to destilled water at this point. It eliminates a lot the fluctuations it seems. I will be sure to do CalMag first, but for those interested I've done really low doses. More of an extra just in case. I've been adding 1/4 tsp per 2.5 gal.

I also got rid of the lights. Now I'm running a blurple and fluorescents until my Mars TS600 gets here.

Also the H2o2 is 29% Optimum Hydro

Appreciate all the input!

Click to expand...

At what ppm? if you dont have a ppm meter then your just guessing. I would say that they are just under fed with the info you provided. That size plant should be about 350-425 ppm in the rez. And that is with r/o water zero ppm. imo tap messes with a hydro grow too much. Start low go up from there as they grow.

OldMedUser said:

Prevents bad things from growing in the nutes and starting root rot. Not needed if a chiller is used to keep the nutes at 65-68F. Hydroguard or it's like is used by some but backfires sometimes too. Bacteria and fungi, even the beneficial kind, are best left out of hydro IMO.

Click to expand...

I to

OldMedUser said:

Prevents bad things from growing in the nutes and starting root rot. Not needed if a chiller is used to keep the nutes at 65-68F. Hydroguard or it's like is used by some but backfires sometimes too. Bacteria and fungi, even the beneficial kind, are best left out of hydro IMO.

Click to expand...

Thanks, and sorry I didn't realize this wasn't a soil grow.

Update:

I definitely think it was light stress. I have completely changed out the lighting for a DIY blurple 60w setup. She is bouncing back with avengence! New root growth looks whiter and almost frosty!

PPM I try to keep around 400 until she is stronger. As I said before my tap water is very soft.

I think I have found a solution that works, or rather, a sequence. I add H2o2 to tap water. Add CalMag, then GH trio. My pH after doing this was much better, sitting around 7.4. I then adjust with some pH down, but now I'm using only 4-6 drops vs 15-20 to get me in range. PPM levels ~450.

Once she wakes up I'll post a pic of how she looks now, but new growth looks lush and is really loving the Dollar Store LED grow lights!!!

Happy New Years IS THIS A DEFICIENCY OR NUTE BURN