Dam white bugs are back again. +rep for help

Sounds like white fly... There attracted to yellow. Just so ya know if you get rid of them get rid of any yellow leaves to and anything yellow in your grow space

palehawaiian said:

Sounds like white fly... There attracted to yellow. Just so ya know if you get rid of them get rid of any yellow leaves to and anything yellow in your grow space

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these are white fly.... there isnt no yellow in my garden





these are white fly eggs

palehawaiian said:

Sounds like white fly... There attracted to yellow. Just so ya know if you get rid of them get rid of any yellow leaves to and anything yellow in your grow space

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Thanks man, but the lady bugs took care of the white flies for me.

I have one of these things stuck to tape under the microscope. If it's not a white mite, then it's the smallest tick of all time.

But that's usefull info for the future. +rep

vapedg13 said:

these are white fly.... there isnt no yellow in my garden

these are white fly eggs

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They're definately not white flies. The only reason I thought I might have white flies is because of the white disks that I saw on the leaves. But now I'm not sure if that was white fly shit, or dead white mites.

As long as those two things on the Aphids heads are antenna and not legs, then it's gotta be white mites. And I've seen Aphids before, they were bigger than these things are.

I'm 99% sure these are white mites, the only question is how to get rid of them. If the Floramite works on them I might try it, especially if it works on the eggs. As long as it wont hurt the lady bugs that is.

I wish I had bought a microscope that you can take pics with. They look almost transluescent under the microscope. But to the naked eye they look white.

I just wish I knew where they're laying their eggs if not on the plants. I guess I'll just have to spray everything.

This is the leaf damage that they make by the way.

Does anyone have any experience with White Mites http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarsonemidae ? I still need to find something that works on them and doesn't kill the Lady Bugs. If you know of something that will kill the White Mites and are unsure about the Lady Bugs, let me know. I'll check to see if it's safe for the Lady Bugs myself, I just need a starting point.

Did some more research, they're Broad Mites (99% sure) http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/cyclamen_mite.htm

I still don't know what to use to get rid of them and I don't think I'm gonna find predatory mites with the nurseries all shut down for the season.

I really need a pesticide or two that wont kill the Lady Bugs. Can anyone help?

hey danny like i sayed b4 u can use neem oil. and its safe on beneficial insects ie ladybugs. and companys make insecticide from neem which is natural and organic. but u can google uses of neem if u like they have tons of info on it

GeeTee said:

hey danny like i sayed b4 u can use neem oil. and its safe on beneficial insects ie ladybugs. and companys make insecticide from neem which is natural and organic. but u can google uses of neem if u like they have tons of info on it

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Thanks again man, but from what I read I'm going to need at least 2 different insecticides because the Mites develop immunities very quickly, and I'll have to treat at least 3 times. And with this mite I'll have to treat every 5 days because of their growth cycle.

Can you suggest a second insecticide that I can use evey other treatment?

Man, I can't think of anything that will kill one bug but not another (especially if you don't think the neem oil will work. The only thing I can suggest is isolation. How many of the leaves have eggs on them? Can you cut off all of the leaves with eggs? If there are too many, maybe you can cut off the ones with the most. Put them in a Ziploc bag and spray them inside of them (far from the ladybugs) with pesticide. Leave them somewhere they won't get damaged or open until you know they're dead, then trash 'em. Let the ladybugs take care of the adults and just try to eliminate the eggs however you can. This way, there aren't as many adults to keep laying eggs. So, if cutting the leaves off isn't an option, try searching for some way to kill, smother, or dry out the eggs that won't kill lady bugs. I tried searching for boric acid and Diatomaceous Earth, but they will both kill lady bugs as well. I read somewhere that salt can dry out flea eggs, but that would be hard to keep on your plants. But, I think something like that could work; worry about killing the eggs since you've already got a solution for the adults.

ETA: I'm really stoned right now, so I'm sorry if this sounds like a retarded suggestion, but maybe you could get a paper hole puncher and punch out the spots with eggs into the Ziploc bags. I don't know about you, but when I trim bad spots off of leaves sometimes, they seem to go unaffected. So maybe this could work. Of course, it would be time consuming and it all goes back to how many eggs are there on how many plants? If there are too many, I wouldn't try it.

FireCoral said:

Man, I can't think of anything that will kill one bug but not another (especially if you don't think the neem oil will work. The only thing I can suggest is isolation. How many of the leaves have eggs on them? Can you cut off all of the leaves with eggs? If there are too many, maybe you can cut off the ones with the most. Put them in a Ziploc bag and spray them inside of them (far from the ladybugs) with pesticide. Leave them somewhere they won't get damaged or open until you know they're dead, then trash 'em. Let the ladybugs take care of the adults and just try to eliminate the eggs however you can. This way, there aren't as many adults to keep laying eggs. So, if cutting the leaves off isn't an option, try searching for some way to kill, smother, or dry out the eggs that won't kill lady bugs. I tried searching for boric acid and Diatomaceous Earth, but they will both kill lady bugs as well. I read somewhere that salt can dry out flea eggs, but that would be hard to keep on your plants. But, I think something like that could work; worry about killing the eggs since you've already got a solution for the adults.

ETA: I'm really stoned right now, so I'm sorry if this sounds like a retarded suggestion, but maybe you could get a paper hole puncher and punch out the spots with eggs into the Ziploc bags. I don't know about you, but when I trim bad spots off of leaves sometimes, they seem to go unaffected. So maybe this could work. Of course, it would be time consuming and it all goes back to how many eggs are there on how many plants? If there are too many, I wouldn't try it.

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Thanks for the effort. +rep

I think I finally have it figured out. I had read somewhere that Lady Bugs will never kill off their food supply. That's why they finished off the Spider Mites & Gnats, but wouldn't finish off the Broad Mites.

I had to take apart my room anyway to make space for the 10 gallon containers, plus I needed to pull 50 clippings. So that's what I did tonight. I also treated with a Neem concentrate. I did some research and found out that Neem is a suffocant, not a insecticide. So before I emptied out the rapid rooter I sprayed some in there to see how the dozen lady bugs I had in there would react. None died.

So tonight I worked overtime. I took the plants out 1 by one, picked the lady bugs off (just in case), and douced then all thoroughly with a gallon of the neem concentrate.

Then I emptied the rest of the room including the mylar and a makeshift wall I had built at the back of the closet to help the A/C cool things down (about half the lady bugs were hiding back there).

I collected all the live lady bugs that were alive & tossed the dead ones (next time i have to do that I'm using a dust buster. lol). And then I sprayed & cleaned everything. That whole time I only saw 1 Broad Mite (the lady bugs had kept them a hair from extinction for over a week now).

I put everything back, but this time I taped the mylar to the wall on all sides so the lady bugs + Mites couldn't hide back there. And I didn't put the mylar back on the floor. I found out through exp. that it's not a good idea to put mylar on the floor with lady bugs around.

Then I went back in the livingroom & sprayed the plants again & took the 50 clippings. Then put the plants back & released the lady bugs again.

Next week I'll treat again with the Mite X, and the following week I'll treat again with the Neem Oil. I think that should work. And when I'm sure that they're gone I can finally flower.

Oh, and as an added precaution I removed all the damaged leaves and all the leaves that touched the rims.

So (knock on wook), I think I'm on my wat to being Mite free.

Alright. Sounds like a lot of work, but it's definitely worth it! I hope you have luck with that. I had ticks in my house before (which are in the arachnid family with mites, right?) OMG, those fuckers were impossible to get rid of. I treated my house weekly for 3 months before I didn't see them anymore, so I stopped. Then 5 months later, the ticks were back. So, if these are as hard to get rid of as those, you might want to consider continuing whatever you can during flower to keep them away. Best wishes from me and my girls to you and your girls.

FireCoral said:

Alright. Sounds like a lot of work, but it's definitely worth it! I hope you have luck with that. I had ticks in my house before (which are in the arachnid family with mites, right?) OMG, those fuckers were impossible to get rid of. I treated my house weekly for 3 months before I didn't see them anymore, so I stopped. Then 5 months later, the ticks were back. So, if these are as hard to get rid of as those, you might want to consider continuing whatever you can during flower to keep them away. Best wishes from me and my girls to you and your girls.

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A lot of work doesn't even start to cover what I did yesterday. lol I just now woke up after finally passing out at 9am, and my back is killing me.

Yeah, they are in the same family. Under a microscope they look almost identical. But the lady bugs kept them at the verge of extinction for me, and they helped me whipe out the Spider Mites & Fungus Gnats. I think I mentioned that I had read that they wont kill off their food supply, and I think that's true after my recent experience. I only saw 1 broad mite last night when I was treating though.

They're resilliant bastards though, nothing will kill their eggs. With their life cycle that means you have to treat every 5 to 7 days depending on the mite you're dealing with, and you have to treat at least 3 times to be rid of them.

I'm not sure of the Tick life cycle. By what you said it sounds like it takes longer for their eggs to hatch. If you ever have to deal with them again, get yourself a shit load of lady bugs. They're a pain in the ass to take care of, but they should get the ticks right on the edge of extinction for you so they're easier to whipe out.

I'm going to hold off on flower for a week or two. I can't get more soil for the rest of the transplants till Tuesday anyway. But I want to be sure that the Broad Mites are toast before flowering so I don't have to treat with buds on the plants.

Thanks again for your help, and may all of your girls grow up to be monsters.

Thanks I dunno how long the ticks live. But their eggs hatch 7 days after laying them. Which is why I was spraying weekly. Are the mites restricted to living around the plants? The ticks will live anywhere that's hidden, which may be why they're harder to get rid of. I'm just crossing my fingers that you don't have to go through the same as me. It was HELL. Never thought about trying lady bugs on them though. Thanks for the idea! I'll keep that in mind if they flare up again... but hopefully they won't!

These mites can live anywere near the plants, but they need the plants to feed so they wont stray too far away.

I had a similar problem, but it's basically contained to the one room. I sprayed everything though, including behind shelving, in the carpet, behind light fixtures, everywhere I could think of. Even in the A/C unit.

I'll have to treat again next Fri, then again the following Fri and if I do a good job, I should be rid of them.

I also thought of something after I wrote the last message. Lady bugs wont eat anything that doesn't have a soft body. If tics have a hard shell they wont do the trick. But I'm sure they're are some predatory bugs you can get to help you, and predatory bugs eat till the food supply is all gone so you don't have to spray. Then after the foods gone they starve to death themselves. Not sure what predatory bugs to use, you'd have to do some research.

azamax is what i got recomended from my local grow shop. works great for me. took care of my problem and use a very low low dose regularily as preventative.

Prosperous said:

azamax is what i got recomended from my local grow shop. works great for me. took care of my problem and use a very low low dose regularily as preventative.

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Thanks, but I don't want to spray insecticide on my girls if I can help it. I'm sure it affects the taste. Plus I don't want to kill off the lady bugs, and they seem to do ok with the suffocants.

Nothing will kill the eggs so suffocants are actually better than insecticides anyway since the mites can't develope an immunity to getting suffocated.

Good piece of advice, don't count on advice that you get from the grow stores. Find yourself a good nursery and develope a relationship with the horticulturists. You'll get much better advice from them. The grow stores for the most part only carry overprices crap.

collect all of your lady bugs and then od your area with co2 it will kill anything that breathes and maybe to save a little work catch ur l.b.s and wait to release them untill u got everything under control they obviously wont do the trick and eat all the bugs seems kinda like a waste of time to keep catching them to release them again to have to do it all over again just a thaught "IMO"

DannyGreenEyes said:

They're resilliant bastards though, nothing will kill their eggs. With their life cycle that means you have to treat every 5 to 7 days depending on the mite you're dealing with, and you have to treat at least 3 times to be rid of them.

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I posted a method I successfuly used with that Rowenta steamer... and you are STILL here with bug problems... I DO NOT allow bugs to live on my plants, period.

A 1" layer of diatemecous earth or clean playbox sand stops fungus gnats in their tracks for good (and most other soil borne larvae insects). For the spider mites you use the steam treatment like I said (and you shrugged off).

Why people have to keep spraying chemicals and trying other insects is ridiculous, when the answer is right in front of you. Just because you have never tried something doesn't mean it doesn't work. BTW- Both of my parents are nationally certified master gardeners, and they DO know their shit. Good luck with those bugs you have!

growman09 said:

collect all of your lady bugs and then od your area with co2 it will kill anything that breathes and maybe to save a little work catch ur l.b.s and wait to release them untill u got everything under control they obviously wont do the trick and eat all the bugs seems kinda like a waste of time to keep catching them to release them again to have to do it all over again just a thaught "IMO"

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I haven't started using CO2 yet so that's not an option.

Also, I caught all the lady bugs the first time because I wasn't sure how they'd do with the suffocants. But they seemed to do fine (a few hid in the plants where I couldn't find them, so they got 2 full doses when I treated). And to be honest, I don't ever want to try to catch all the lady bugs again, it took way too long and was way too much work. But I learned a lot about how to set up the room so the lady bugs don't kill themselves as much, so I guess it was worth it.

They may not finish off their food supply, but when I started I had 3 infestations. They finished off the Spider Mites & Fungus Gnats leaving me with only the Broad Mites to deal with. And they have them close to extinction, so they are helping. And now that I know I can use suffocants with them in the room, that makes them all that much more usefull.

Also, they've been keeping the remaining bugs off the plants so my growth hasn't been stunted. Another benefit from having them.

I wont ever be catching them again, I'll just clean up the dead ones every once in a while. If I had to catch them every time I sprayed, they woulnd't be worth it. They're almost not worth it regardless, but I think they're just about earning their keep.

Also, once I start feeding them I'm hoping that they'll start to see me as a food source. If they do that then they'll kill off any & all bugs that are soft bodied. Not sure if it's gonna work, but it's worth a try.

MacGuyver4.2.0 said:

I posted a method I successfuly used with that Rowenta steamer... and you are STILL here with bug problems... I DO NOT allow bugs to live on my plants, period.

A 1" layer of diatemecous earth or clean playbox sand stops fungus gnats in their tracks for good (and most other soil borne larvae insects). For the spider mites you use the steam treatment like I said (and you shrugged off).

Why people have to keep spraying chemicals and trying other insects is ridiculous, when the answer is right in front of you. Just because you have never tried something doesn't mean it doesn't work. BTW- Both of my parents are nationally certified master gardeners, and they DO know their shit. Good luck with those bugs you have!

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The Lady Bugs took care of the Spider Mites & Fungus Gnats for me as I've said repeatedly. All that's left is the Broad Mites who like humidity, so I don't even know if the steamer would work on them.

I'm not sure what diatemecous earth is, and some have told me it's a strong poison. For mites I want to stick with suffocants since it's the only thing they can't become immune to. Plus, suffocants are oils & acids & sometimes sweet stuff like sucrose or molasses. They contain no chemicals which I like. I'm sure any chemical that's absorbed by the plant is going to effect the end product.

I appreciate your effort, but there's more than 1 way to sking a cat, and I have to find my own way.

If the lady bugs start seeing me as a food source then I'll never have to spray anything ever again. If they don't then I'll only have to spray suffocants if any more bugs show up. All natural either way.